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Just bought my first DCC system (NCE PowerCab)!

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 21, 2011 10:50 AM

tstage

Randy,

I'm not entirely sure what the OP meant by it either.  I was only quoting him.

As you are aware, the current Power Cab will remember the settings for two locomotives in the recall stack.  If you call up a third address while the other two are operating, the third address will replace the address of the last locomotive you were operating.

Say, you want to change speeds of the locomotive, whose address you just overwrote in the recall stack.  You, therefore, must re-enter that address again in order to select it.  Once you press the SELECT button, that locomotive will come to a dead stop because the speed step is now "000".  That makes for jerky transitions.

With that said, transitions from locomotive-to-locomotive in the recall stack are no problem because the throttle remembers the settings.  Randy, if you add an 11th locomotive (or 1 plus whatever the recall limit is) to the Zephyr's recall stack and add the replaced locomotive address (which is still moving) back into the stack again, would it "buck" or stop when you acquired it again?

Anyhow, that's what I know on the topic, Randy.  If this new feature means something else then...I guess I'll be enlightened on it.

Tom

 You can't add that 11th loco (actually I think it allows 12, 10+2 for the jump ports, so that would be the 13th loco) with Digitrax. The command station keeps track of which locos are running, not the throttle. I guess that's why recall is a more useful option on systems like NCE and MRC. If I select a loco on my Digitrax throttle, set it running, and then select a different loco on the same throttle, the throttle has no memory of the first loco (although there is a 'recently used' recall stack - like dropping down the recently used items in your web browser), the command station is maintainign that info. So no matter when I reselect an already moving loco, even on a different throttle, it will maintain current speed and direction - unless the throttle is a UT4 with a potentiometer, in which case the loco will gradually adjust speed to the throttle setting.

                           --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by tstage on Friday, January 21, 2011 7:36 AM

gatrhumpy,

And another good shop for you to know that's just down the road from NCE in Webster is Empire Northern Models.  Tim Smith is VERY knowledgeable about DCC and installs.

Tim's prices are among the best on the Internet.  And, even if he doesn't have something, he can more than likely get it for you - if you ask him.

Tom

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Friday, January 21, 2011 5:24 AM

Apparently, and I did not know this, but NCE is based in Webster, NY, 20 minutes from where I lived for the first 18 years of my life! :woohoo:

I can't wait to get this sucker!

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Posted by pastorbob on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:44 PM

Your choice as to keeping it or not, but I have had NCE full DCC system since the early days and wouldn't trade it for anything else.  I use wireless and cabled cabs, I use the procab and I use the small cab06 cabs, I have not had failures of any kind with it and I work the system hard.  Have upgraded a few things as needed, but overall a good solid system.

Bob

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:35 PM

Randy,

Yes that is an odd thing about the Pro upgrade. I have the Pro 5 amp system that I got a year ago, and when I select a different loco, what ever loco was running doesn't stop or anything, until I select the loco again and tell it to stop. In fact, I would be PO'd if it did not act like that.

Maybe they are talking about an older Pro system?

Michael


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Posted by tstage on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:32 PM

Randy,

I'm not entirely sure what the OP meant by it either.  I was only quoting him.

As you are aware, the current Power Cab will remember the settings for two locomotives in the recall stack.  If you call up a third address while the other two are operating, the third address will replace the address of the last locomotive you were operating.

Say, you want to change speeds of the locomotive, whose address you just overwrote in the recall stack.  You, therefore, must re-enter that address again in order to select it.  Once you press the SELECT button, that locomotive will come to a dead stop because the speed step is now "000".  That makes for jerky transitions.

With that said, transitions from locomotive-to-locomotive in the recall stack are no problem because the throttle remembers the settings.  Randy, if you add an 11th locomotive (or 1 plus whatever the recall limit is) to the Zephyr's recall stack and add the replaced locomotive address (which is still moving) back into the stack again, would it "buck" or stop when you acquired it again?

Anyhow, that's what I know on the topic, Randy.  If this new feature means something else then...I guess I'll be enlightened on it.

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:56 PM

 That select refresh thing for the PowerPro confuses me. DO you mean to say that currently with an NCE system, you can;t select a loco on your throttle, and then select a different one while the first continues to run? Or does the second one continue to run UNTIL you use the recall to get it back as the 'active' loco, at which time it then stops?  Seems odd that either of those would be the case, if not, then I guess I don;t understand the wording of that feature update. It seems the PowerCab already does this, whatever it means, even withotu the update.

                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Graffen on Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:28 PM

Thanks for the info :-D

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:07 PM

Graffen,

Here's what I have surmised so far from the link that you've given:

Power Cab upgrade

  • Replacement EEPROM
  • New Rev will be V1.65 (Currently V1.28C)
  • Recall stack will increase from 2 to 6 addresses
  • Additional cabs that can be added to the Power Cab will increase from 1 to 3

Power Pro upgrade

  • Replacement EEPROM
  • Select Loco Refresh added - "Locos called back into the stack won't just stop but will keep on doing whatever they were doing (sound, lights, movement, etc.) until the user changes an instruction."

For those nervous about doing the upgrade yourself, switching out the EEPROM is quite simple.  All you need is a Phillips-head screwdriver.  What you want to do first is to:

  • Remove screws from the rear panel
  • Carefully extract the old EEPROM from the socket - You may need to use a small flat-head screwdriver to gently pry it up from both ends.  Do one side...then the other...then back and forth till the EEPROM comes free.  You do NOT want to force it out!
  • insert the new EEPROM into the socket - Make sure it is well seated in socket
  • Reinstall the rear panel - Done!

The only other thing you need to make sure of is that the EEPROM is in the correct orientation.  One of the corners will probably have a 45 degree bevel.  Note where this is on the old EEPROM before you remove it and be sure you insert the new one the exact same way.

From the above, my Smart Booster (SB3a) already has the latter two features of the Power Cab upgrade.  The recall stack isn't a biggie for me, personally.  Since I only have a modest 4 x 8 layout, 6 slots is just way too many pushes of the RECALL button to cycle through every time I want to find a locomotive address.  So, I only changed my stack memory from 2 to 3.  And it's a fairly easy change to make via the Power Cab's onscreen menu.  The additional cab addresses, however, is a real plus. Yes

Given my current set up of the Power Cab and SB3a, I'll probably wait on the upgrade.  (Or, at least till the inrush for the upgrade EEPROMs has subsided a bit.)  I do think that the upgrade and additional features will make the newest Power Cab even more attractive to buyers.  Way to go, NCE!

Tom

P.S. Graffen, I quickly checked the NCE Yahoo! Groups user forum but I didn't see much mentioned about the upgrade.  I don't visit it all that often so that's not to say that it hasn't already been discussed there.

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:34 PM

Nope.

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Posted by Graffen on Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:06 PM

Does anyone know anything else about the Upgrade?

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Posted by Graffen on Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:22 PM

tstage

That's a new one on me, Graffen.  Do you know right off hand which version of the software?  I currently have V1.28C in my Power Cab.  When plugged into my upgraded Smart Booster (SB3a), it shows V1.28D2.

Tom

I have been following this thread:

RMWEB

As I´m interested in buying a PowerCab, I thought it was better to wait until after the Upgrade?!?!

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:56 PM

That's a new one on me, Graffen.  Do you know right off hand which version of the software?  I currently have V1.28C in my Power Cab.  When plugged into my upgraded Smart Booster (SB3a), it shows V1.28D2.

Tom

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Posted by Graffen on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:43 PM

Wasn´t it next week the software update was due for the PowerCab?

How does it work? Is it a new Eprom that should be replaced or is it a pure software update?

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:43 PM

I wouldn't fret about it, gatrhumpy.  Even with a plug 'n play decoder, you're still learning something about installing a decoder.

FWIW, I do remember reading about a few here on the forum who said that they were happy with the sound from their MRC sound decoder.  Maybe this one will be decent for you.  Do keep us posted...

Tom

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:21 PM

Hmmm, I guess I chose that particular DCC decoder because it was plug and play. Was it worth it to not have to add a speaker to it or find a place for it? I guess I'll let everyone know next week.

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:20 PM

It does have two crossovers, but they are electrical isolated by plastic rail joiners.

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:00 PM

gatrhumpy,

For $20, it's worth a try on the RS wall transformer.  1A can power quite a few bulbs.  As far as MRC decoders though; they are what they are.  A change in speakers won't make any difference.

When MRC first came out with them, they weren't very good.  A friend of mine had one in a Stewart F3 A-B.  The prime mover sound was distorted so badly that it sounded like a UFO taking off...under water.  Hopefully MRC's newer offerings are better.

For future sound decoder purposes, gatrhumpy, Tsunami, Loksound, or QSI would be a better choice.  I have one of newer QSI decoders (Q2?) in my Atlas Alco HH600 switcher.  Boy, does that puppy crawl! Yes  The sound is very good, too.

Tom

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Posted by Hamltnblue on Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:59 PM

As the others noted, keep the lights off of the rail power.  It draws available power from the trains and just plain asks for trouble.

As far as an inner and outer loop, why not put a cross over between them so you can switch between them?  With DCC the loco's can be connected to the same power and run independently.

 

Springfield PA

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:41 PM

Tom - thanks. I'm thinking that I could set the voltage to 9V and call it a day.

Maybe I'll pick one up tonight!

As for the MRC drop-in sound decoder, anything that I can do to improve the reliability? I'm a reliability engineer, so maybe I can replace components? Also, is there anything that can improve the sound from the speaker? Not that I'm complaining about the sound seeing that I've never had sound before.

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:36 PM

gatrhumpy,

That should work.  The nice thing about it is that you can 1) adjust the output voltage from 3V to 12V with the built-in slide switch, and 2) "curious fingers" (aka kids/grandkids/or nosy adults) are more likely to turn the knob on a power pack than fiddle with a wall transformer

I've been using an MRC 1370 Railpower power pack for my lighting, which I picked up off eBay for $20 a few years back.  Plenty of power (18VA) and it comes with an built-in automatic circuit protector.  I think the voltage output for these "regulated" and is pretty rock solid.

Tom

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:02 PM

As for the power pack, would something like this work? It's switchable from 3-12 volts and has a 1 amp capacity.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3875403&numProdsPerPage=60

 

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:44 AM

Thanks for the detailed post Tom. I appreciate it.

I have already had push-spring-type of speaker connections available for the lights and power to my inside and outside tracks (i.e. double track mainline, which is loosely based on the Soo Line's Red Wing Division in the December 1994 issue of MR). I liked the NCE DCC system because of the very small fasic-type of Power Panel. Everything is plugged directly into the layout. No more bulky power pack.

I will get a dedicated power pack for the lights. I have probably close to 22 lights, most using the 12-14 volts. I also have a welding LED module, crossing gate lights, and ITT sound module. The question now becomes what is the best and smallest power pack for those items? I already have rocker switches installed in the fascia of the portable layout for the lights and the sound module. I want to attach the power pack directly to the fascia of the layout. I could care less if it has a power switch or anything like that. Perhaps Radioshack has something that will power all the lights, something around 1 amp capacity?

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:57 AM

gatrhumpy,

As I mentioned in the other thread, I personally would go with a dedicated power pack to power your lighting.  As you stated, you can dial down the voltage to your lights with the power pack and thereby extend the life of your lights immeasurably.  They'll also look more realistic NOT running at full intensity.

Realistically, there should only be two wires coming off the back of the PCP panel, where your Power Cab will be plugged into.  If you're insistent on powering your lighting with the Power Cab: Run the wires from the wall transformer to one side of an Atlas slide switch and connect the other side to the back of the PCP panel.  That way power will remain uninterrupted going to your PCP panel.  Your lights can then be turned off and on with a slide switch.

Then you have the decision of whether you want to wire your lighting "in series" or "in parallel".  This is where the dedicated power pack would make things much easier for you.  Albeit 2 or 22 bulbs, you can adjust the voltage so that the lights luminate to the intensity that you want.

Do keep in mind that (22) 14 volt - 20 amp bulbs would require 0.44A to power.  Now you have 25% less amps to power locomotives with.  That's why a dedicated power source for operating lights is a better option - at least in my IMO.

gatrhumpy, congratulations on your new acquisition.  I think you'll really enjoy the Power Cab and DCC.  I've been using DCC for 6 years now and have not regretted making the transition.

Tom

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:37 AM

From the original post I don't think he's even got the system yet.

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:35 AM

Ok, many Dudes have trouble with this but follow the manual. I have the Power Cab for over two years.

Take your time. There is no hurry.

Make sure to send in the Warranty card. Don't tell me you already threw out the card?

NCE just repaired my Power Cab for free as the back light for the display stopped working and my system was registered because I sent the card in. Sometime ago I got a free upgrade chip for the controller because the system was registered.

Rich

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:33 AM

gatrhumpy

So wait, there are only two connections on the back of the NCE Power Panel. Do I wire the lights to this connection also (where track power is)? Does that mean that the lights will see 2 amps of current? If I connect the lights to the same terminals as the track power, does that mean I can put a switch inline with the lights and I can turn the lights on and off this way?

I may just get a very small power pack from a train set, connect it to the fascia on my portable layout, and power the lights that way (along with varying the voltage the lights see).

You can look at a copy of the PowerCab manual here: http://www.ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/power_cab_manual_v1.28.pdf  You only have to scroll down a page to see how the PowerCab gets connected to a layout.

If by "connections" you mean some sort of AC and DC terminals like you'd find on a DC power pack, then the answer is "no".  There are two sockets on the back of the facia panel.  One of them is to allow expansion of the system to include additional facia panels.  The other socket is where the power to the track gets connected.  They supply a connector with two small screws that secure the track wires to  the connector, and then the connector plugs into the socket.  I think this is a typical interface method no matter which DCC system you purchase.

I don't believe any DCC system has terminals that would allow direct connection to accessories such as lighting.  And I don't think anyone on this forum would recommend that you connect your lighting circuits to the track power which, as I mentioned previously, is about 14 volts. 

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Posted by woodone on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:28 AM

Well if you want,  you can use the buss wires to power up your lights. It is just that lights require power, so the 2 amp system will be powering up your locos and the lights. Get too many lights and you will take away the power to the locos.

It better to have a separate power supply for lights.

I have had my Power Cab for over 5 years now and never had any problems with it.

Great system and very easy to understand and use.

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:14 AM

Hmmmmmmmmm. I did not know this. They have a six month warranty, so if it goes belly up I will return it. Heck, if this goes belly up at all, I may just say the heck with DCC and return the DCC system too (or sell it).

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