i did nothing different when i changed the ar1 out with the psx ar on the bottom and it works flawlessly! Same with the upper loop. i would have to say it was my units not my wiring. But thanks for all of your suggestions.
bnsf0823 I just recieved my new psx ar unit in the mail yesterday hooked it up and ran my trains every different direction and it didn't even hesitate going through the reverser works so perfectly now im going to get one for my lower loop for my ar1 is not working properly. so happy it works must have been a bad psx ar the first time.
I just recieved my new psx ar unit in the mail yesterday hooked it up and ran my trains every different direction and it didn't even hesitate going through the reverser works so perfectly now im going to get one for my lower loop for my ar1 is not working properly. so happy it works must have been a bad psx ar the first time.
Back in December, you said your ar1 was working "just fine", so I suspect it is you and not the auto-reversers that are causing the problem.
Rich
Alton Junction
I just recieved my new psx ar unit in the mail yesterday hooked it up and ran my trains every different direction and it didn't even hesitate going through the reverser works so perfectly now im going to get one for my lower loop for my ar1 is not working properly. so happy it works must have been a bad psx ar the first time. I only hope it keeps running well. i did also upgrade to the db150 as a booster for now and that seems to be working great. Thanks for all of your guys help. Im sure i will need more in the future. Dcc specialties is a great company to work with. no hassles at all.
It's not going to fix ANY of the problems you are having. If the Zephyr is not tripping out because of overloads - and it SHOULDN'T be unless you are trying to run more than 7 or 8 locos, or all your locos are odl Athearn ones witht eh black motor that draw 2 amps each.
I am not convinced your wiring is solid - good heavy bus wire, with adequate feeds. If you truly need more amps then the DB150 is a good way to go. You also need a power suppyl for it. But if your wiring is inadequate, all that will happen by putting a DB150 in palce is that you will be more likely to actually damage somethign because of the higher current. You need to be able to set a quarter on the rails ANYWHERE and have the booster trip. And I mean SET a quarter on the track - NOT press it down.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Depends on how many trains you intend to run at once. I have my Zephyr hooked tot he DB150 but the Zephyr does not supply any track power anywhere, all track power comes fromt eh DB150. The Zephyr track output I have run to all my accessory decoders to run them so the entire output of the DB150 is available to run trains. Plus there are no speed difference issues - the Zephyr's fixed output voltage is slightly higher than the DB150 on the N scale setting and lower than the DB150's HO setting. I use the N scale setting ont eh DB150 even for my HO trains because they all run plenty fast so as it is.
I found out that my psx ar was bad and sent it back to dcc specialties they are sending me a new unit. They seem to be a real good company. I bought a db150 to add as a booster i feel i eventually was going to need more amps later anyway. Will this help with me not having to change anything on the psx ar. What is the best way to hook up the db150 to my zepher via my layout config. Should i just have the zepher power a small portion of my layout and the db150 the rest or what? If anyone has some good wiring ideas i would like to hear them. Im on vacation all week and want to get some good railroading done. The more detailed you can be the better for this is my weekest point of the hobby. Thanks guys Scooter
Bump ,Bnsf hows it going going ,did you solve it?...Jerry
Yes, you guys i am a busy person i have three little girls 6,5,2 and it is the busy time of year. I go on vacation starting next week and hope to do alot of model railroading. I have tried some of the ideas you have suggested but your right my results keep coming up negative. im going to wire up a three track experemental track to see if it is the psx or the wiring of my track. and also i need to figure out if it's tripping my zephyr or psx first. Also i do like the idea of a shorter reverse section can you explain randy one more time how to wire. does the red segment get fed by the in or the out on psx and then the rest of the upper loop would be attached to the lower buss also and to the in on the psx. because the psx must supply the power to the reversing section. Big Jer might like suspense stories but this one is driving me crazy. wish i had one more modeler to work through this with me i am having a hard time. Merry Christmas
SO I am, but I have patience. Eventually we'll hear the latest results. Tomorrow I hope to have some time to work on my own layout.
Methodically and one step at a time is defintiely the best way to troubleshoot a problem, he's getting there.
rrinker Others - there hae been plenty of feedback from the OP. Plus think of the time of the year - I haven't had a chance to do anything on my layout for a week now, and it will be a couple of days before I get back home. --Randy
Others - there hae been plenty of feedback from the OP. Plus think of the time of the year - I haven't had a chance to do anything on my layout for a week now, and it will be a couple of days before I get back home.
Randy,
I am one of those "others". Sure, there has been plenty of feedback from the OP but mostly reports of things that he has tried and failed to resolve the problem. If you go back and read through this thread, there have been several good suggestions that have never been tried by the OP.
DG - I saw the PM as well, and I have to say, I can't begin to say how BAD a design that is. The software setting should NEVER override a hard wired jumper. But if that's the way it works....
BIG JERR come on Rich: loosen up ,are OP is probably A younger fellow with many prioritys in his lIfe and railroading is just one. he may be (like me ) a bit overwhelmed at technoligy (heck I have a cell phone but still dont really no how to use it ) and who doesnt enjoy a long suspence thriller ! ....remember its all FUN (and I think we all learn somthing here,I do ) Jerry
come on Rich: loosen up ,are OP is probably A younger fellow with many prioritys in his lIfe and railroading is just one. he may be (like me ) a bit overwhelmed at technoligy (heck I have a cell phone but still dont really no how to use it ) and who doesnt enjoy a long suspence thriller ! ....remember its all FUN (and I think we all learn somthing here,I do ) Jerry
Jerry
As Ed McMahon used to say, You are Correct, Sir !
I shall be patient with young BNSF.
9 days later, 4 pages of replies later, 872 views laters, and 56 replies later, with all due respect to BNSF, this could have been resolved long ago.
Lots of good suggestions and advice, most of which seems to be ignored. At this point, we still don't know if it is the PSX-AR or the upper level wiring.
Whatever.
Okay here's a simple test for the PSX-AR
Disconnect the wires between the track feeders/bus and the PSX-AR. Keep the wires between the booster and PSX-AR connected however.
Turn on your Zephyr. Take a wire and Quickly short the output terminals on the PSX-AR. It should blink. This means it's detecting the short and reversed polarity.
Next hold the short the output terminals again, this time holding the wire there. The PSX-AR should show a solid lit light where the blinking light was. This indicates a short.
If test case 1 passes, but not test 2 (Zephyr shuts down) then it's likely a current setting on the PSX-AR or a bad PSX-AR.
If test case 1 fails after a couple tries, then it may be a bad PSX-AR
If 1 and 2 pass, then the problem is likely your track wiring. (Although I'm guessing this won't happen, as your Zephyr is shutting down...disconnecting it from the track will make no difference is the PSX-AR isn't shutting off current in time)
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
J6 1-2 jumpered sets it for 1.27 amps. Nothing else needs to be done.
Not sure what is so hard to understand about the CV49 method - but it will NOT work now that you have JP6 1-2 with a wire soldered in. You need to take that off if you want to use the CV49 programming.
To do CV49: turn off track power. Put the program jumper J3 on pins 1 and 2. Turn on track power. Select a loco address that you DO NOT have on the track, 01 will work. Just like selecting any other loco. The hit the Program button untilt he display says Po for Ops Mode. Press CV, enter 49, press CV, enter 02 for 2.54 amps, press CV-WR. Turn off track power. Put J3 back to 2-3 for normal operation. DOne.
But this will not work with J6 having a wire soldered in.
If the PSX works fine with no track connectd to it, then you have a feeder hooed up backwards somewhere or some other wire fault. Your gaps - do the have plastic joiners or did you just cut through the rails with a Dremel? If you just cut through the rail, make sure the gap hasn't closed up, either through the rail shifting or a piece of metal getting lodged in there - that sort of thign would explain why it worked the first time but then stopped workingIf you cut the gaps with a Dremel, you shoudl glue in small bits of plastic to keep the rails from closing up. Glue it in then cut and file to the shape of the rail.
If the gaps are fine, check the feeders. If you haven't altered the track from the original plan, every single feeder past the turnout where the gaps are should be connected to the PSX. And they mus all be connected the same wayIf you pick as a starting point the track I marked in red on my version and follow the track around, the rail on the right moving in a counter-clockwise direction must ALWAYS be hooked up to the rail on the right at each and every feeder. Every single one. One mistake and it very likely could be that it's not enough of a short to continuously short, but it woudl keep the PSX from reversing. two or more wired wrong would almost certainly be a full time shot as soon as the power was turned on, but check over this wiring. EVERY ONEof those upper level feeders has to go to the output side of the PSX.
yes j6 1-2 is what i jumpered. i can only think that this is something so simple but i don't know whay i can't figure it out.
I tested the psx ar and it worked without the output hooked up. The guy at dcc spec said to program the psx ar to 2.54 amps but i just do not understand the instructions. it reads with to power off put the programming jumper on pins 1-2 do they mean on the zephyr or the psx ar then turn on power program on main line, setup a fake loco address in order to get the cv settng operation. put any address hit enter then you can start entering cv #s followed by the values then turn power off and replace program jumper to pins 2-3. cv49 value2 =2.54 amps. Can someone explain step by step what needs to be moved in detail. i don't understand what jumper they are talking about the one on the back of my zephyr or what. This is about my last option i cleared my whole layout today boxed everything up and cleaned my track. (maybe sell it all) just joking.
bnsf0823 I jumpered the j1 and j2 pin togeather with a wire soldering them. I then tried the unit on the upper level and it did the same thing the psx ar lights flash and the zepher shorts. So then i decided to take it to the smaller lower loop and give it a try and the same thing happened. I talked to a guy at dcc specialties today and he said all i would need to do is jumper those to pins and it would reduce it to 1.27 amp. I think i have a shotty unit. I need to still try the ar1 on the upper level. I have heard all good things about the psx ar when i researched it before i purchased it.
I jumpered the j1 and j2 pin togeather with a wire soldering them. I then tried the unit on the upper level and it did the same thing the psx ar lights flash and the zepher shorts. So then i decided to take it to the smaller lower loop and give it a try and the same thing happened. I talked to a guy at dcc specialties today and he said all i would need to do is jumper those to pins and it would reduce it to 1.27 amp. I think i have a shotty unit. I need to still try the ar1 on the upper level. I have heard all good things about the psx ar when i researched it before i purchased it.
When the PSX-AR is working it will blink to indicate it reversed polarity. When it shorts, it will become solid lit.
Are your rail splits directly across from each other? (Not staggered)
I just want to make sure, but you said J1 and J2. It's supposed to be J6 pins 1 & 2.
I circled them in red bottom center. For the jumpers to work: CV49 has to be 0.
Please also make sure J3 is on pins 2 & 3 after you are done programming CV49. (Operations mode)
rrinker The problem witht he entire upper level being a reversing loop the way it was originally drawn is that by setting the PSX to a low enough current trip to that it trips before the Zephyr, it limits how many trains can be on the upper level in total. The PSX-AR is both a circuit breaker and an autoreverse, so it will trip from a straight overload as well as attempt to reverse the polarity - basically it first reverses the polarity and if a short is still detected it turns off power entirely. The default setting requires over 3 ams to trip, which is more than the Zephyr can supply, so the Zephyr's internal circuit breaker will trip before the PSX unless the PSX is configured to a lower setting. --Randy
The problem witht he entire upper level being a reversing loop the way it was originally drawn is that by setting the PSX to a low enough current trip to that it trips before the Zephyr, it limits how many trains can be on the upper level in total. The PSX-AR is both a circuit breaker and an autoreverse, so it will trip from a straight overload as well as attempt to reverse the polarity - basically it first reverses the polarity and if a short is still detected it turns off power entirely. The default setting requires over 3 ams to trip, which is more than the Zephyr can supply, so the Zephyr's internal circuit breaker will trip before the PSX unless the PSX is configured to a lower setting.
+1
When he said, "It shorts" he didn't indicate if it was the PSX-AR or the Zephyr. It was the Zephyr then he didn't set the trip current on the PSX-AR low enough. (99% likely.)
The other benefit of taking it off the layout and testing it... you will learn how it really operates! There's a air of mysticism about autoreversers.... but they are not that complicated!
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Vail and Southwestern RR Too many variables... get it off the layout and test it. In 15 minutes, you will KNOW if it is defective or not, and all the speculation can stop!
Too many variables... get it off the layout and test it. In 15 minutes, you will KNOW if it is defective or not, and all the speculation can stop!
LOL
For your sake alone, Jeff, I wish he would take it off the layout and test it.
But, hey, what's the hurry, it's only been 7 days since he first posted the problem.
He may eventually get around to it.
I agree with Jeff,bench test it . and we cant forget that it did work for a while according to bnsf..Jerry
I have a PSX-AR that works with the original Prodigy, which is lower power than the Zephyr (don't remember exactly what at the moment).
yankee flyer Hey BNSF I started out in the hobby about 3 years with a Zephyr and an AR 1. I had similar problems. IMHO you really have to check and understand the red - blue track polarity and the same with the color coded buss wire. I finally got rid of both units and used a simple toggle switch. As I look back on the problem I think maybe it was because I could not adjust the AR low enough to keep from tripping the Zephyr. Now when I want to enter the reversing loop I set the "Y" turnout and the polarity switch to go the same way.I now use the NCE Power Cab and a dollar toggle switch. "Never give up" Lee
Hey BNSF
I started out in the hobby about 3 years with a Zephyr and an AR 1. I had similar problems. IMHO you really have to check and understand the red - blue track polarity and the same with the color coded buss wire. I finally got rid of both units and used a simple toggle switch. As I look back on the problem I think maybe it was because I could not adjust the AR low enough to keep from tripping the Zephyr. Now when I want to enter the reversing loop I set the "Y" turnout and the polarity switch to go the same way.I now use the NCE Power Cab and a dollar toggle switch.
"Never give up"
Lee
Lee,
You may be right about the Zephyr power requirements, but it is interesting to note that the AR1 works fine on the lower level. It is the PSX-AR that is causing the problem. Perhaps the PSX-AR is not suited to work with a 2.5 amp Zephyr system.
bnsf0823 I jumper-ed the j1 and j2 pin togeather with a wire soldering them. I then tried the unit on the upper level and it did the same thing the psx ar lights flash and the zephyr shorts. So then i decided to take it to the smaller lower loop and give it a try and the same thing happened. I talked to a guy at dcc specialties today and he said all i would need to do is jumper those to pins and it would reduce it to 1.27 amp. I think i have a shotty unit. I need to still try the ar1 on the upper level. I have heard all good things about the psx ar when i researched it before i purchased it.
I jumper-ed the j1 and j2 pin togeather with a wire soldering them. I then tried the unit on the upper level and it did the same thing the psx ar lights flash and the zephyr shorts. So then i decided to take it to the smaller lower loop and give it a try and the same thing happened. I talked to a guy at dcc specialties today and he said all i would need to do is jumper those to pins and it would reduce it to 1.27 amp. I think i have a shotty unit. I need to still try the ar1 on the upper level. I have heard all good things about the psx ar when i researched it before i purchased it.