So what's the advantage of the new ones
TerryinTexas
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C&O Fan So what's the advantage of the new ones
DT402 = 28 functions (tethered)
DT402R = 28 functions and Radio (compatible with existing Digitrax simplex radio)
DT402D = 28 functions and Duplex radio (does not requite you to plug in to acquire, etc)
HTH, Steve
Will they be able to up grade the old DT400? If so will I need a new command station to replaces my DB 150?
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken Will they be able to up grade the old DT400? If so will I need a new command station to replaces my DB 150? Cuda Ken
Yes, DT400 upgrades to 28 functions, simplex radio, or duplex radio will be available. No, your DB150 won't need to be upgraded, but you will need to add a UR91 radio receiver (if you don't have one already) for simplex radio, or a UR92 for duplex radio.
Steve
I wonder if the price will drop on the old radio controlled equipment such as the ut4-r? brian
Thanks for the answer Steve.
Ken
bwchaney I wonder if the price will drop on the old radio controlled equipment such as the ut4-r? brian
Doubt it - check eBay, even old DB100a boosters go for full original retail price - as well as older throttles like the DT100 and DT300. It all still works with the newest components.
Upgrades are right in line with current upgrades - you pay essentially what the difference in cost is between what you have and what you are upgrading to. As usual, no penalty for buying now and adding extra feature later - other than having to wait until they returnt he upgraded unit to you. Also no upgrades until September or so, first production is being allocated to new sales.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It's a shame that a new throttle would be released that didn't have an upgraded display size with better menu setup. At a minimum they should have a menu structure similar to NCE's if not greatly enhanced. Memory is cheap these days. Coming out with a throttle that is almost as good as the competitions couple year old solution is unacceptable in my opinion.
An Iphone has a large touchscreen display that is a phone and can run multiple applications and costs 200 bucks. Volume building is a big part of it I know but to make something that is has half the capability would have great potential.
Springfield PA
They did change the menus
The screen is plenty big - I have VERY coke-bottle glasses and have no issues
An iphone costs $200 because it's subsidized with a ridiculously overpriced 2 year contract (didn't stop me from getting one though). iphone with no contract is on the order of $500-$600.
I'm thinking there ought to be a way to make an iphone app that could be a throttle - iphone does 802.11, and JMRI already has the bits to allow a remote computer to interface to the layout through a second computer. What if the throttle app was on the iphone and talked via 802.11 to the pc with the railroad interface? Shake the phone for an e-stop!
Oh yeah - why do NCE people usually use Loconet or C/MRI for signalling? Oh yeah, the computer interface on the NCE sytsem is 'blind' to whatever commands are issued from the throttle. You can just do more with Loconet, and that's proveable with facts, not just "my system is better" rhetoric.
rrinker EDIT Oh yeah - why do NCE people usually use Loconet or C/MRI for signalling? Oh yeah, the computer interface on the NCE sytsem is 'blind' to whatever commands are issued from the throttle. You can just do more with Loconet, and that's proveable with facts, not just "my system is better" rhetoric. --Randy
EDIT
I'm confused. How does someone with NCE use Loconet for signaling? Since Loconet is proprietary to Digitrax and incompatible with other DCC systems, how is this done?
There used to be a third party vendor that sold software and a cable to use a PalmPilot as a throttle. It was actually a very nice application and the throttle interface was much easier to use than a regular Digitrax DT400. Unfortunately it is longer being sold - not enough sales to keep it going. An iPhone app could be developed, the problem is recouping the investment to write, test, and market the app over a relatively limited market.
Duplex radio would be a good thing, but why would anyone need 28 functions. Is there actually 28 different functions you could use? Seriously, what would all those functions be used for?
You can find uses for all 28. The challenge will be remembering them all. I am sure many folks wiill use cheat sheets, which detracts from the comment often thrown about regarding making things simple to use.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I was using the iphone as a reference in technology. Digitrax has finally moved up to the 90's
NCE and MRC aren't much better but they are.
Even if you took any of the latest releases of digitrax or NCE and put some thought into them you could come up with some great offerings. You'll have to trust a stranger to know that if the cheapest cell phone that (with contract) is free and does 10x what a train controller does, that things could be done much better for 200 bucks.
The sky is the limit with current technology and it's cheap.
All of the major players should invest in training for their engineers and make the controllers much more user friendly and powerful.
I sent my Digitax DCS100 (10 years old and still ticking!) to Digitrax last fall to have it upgraded to 12 functions. The cost was $50. I can't figure out what to do with 12 functions. What would I do with 28???
My era is the KCS in 1981. Horn, Bell and Headlights are about it. No rotary becons, mars lights or ditch lights. I have a walk around lauout with ground throws, so I don't need switch control from the throtle, although I may consider CTC from PanelPro at some future date.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Happy for the Digitrax guys, but as a long time and happy NCE user, it is a non event for me. I hope it does work well for youse Digitrax guys, did notice the radio throttle looked a little pricey, but hey, its only money.
Bob
rrinker I'm thinking there ought to be a way to make an iphone app that could be a throttle - iphone does 802.11, and JMRI already has the bits to allow a remote computer to interface to the layout through a second computer. What if the throttle app was on the iphone and talked via 802.11 to the pc with the railroad interface? Shake the phone for an e-stop!
I thought the UR92 (duplex radio transciever) was a 802.11 device. The iphone throttle may not be too far out...
KCS used oscillating headlights for a long time. Might still be using them on older power. Newer power wouldn't have it.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Silver Pilot rrinker EDIT Oh yeah - why do NCE people usually use Loconet or C/MRI for signalling? Oh yeah, the computer interface on the NCE sytsem is 'blind' to whatever commands are issued from the throttle. You can just do more with Loconet, and that's proveable with facts, not just "my system is better" rhetoric. --Randy I'm confused. How does someone with NCE use Loconet for signaling? Since Loconet is proprietary to Digitrax and incompatible with other DCC systems, how is this done? There used to be a third party vendor that sold software and a cable to use a PalmPilot as a throttle. It was actually a very nice application and the throttle interface was much easier to use than a regular Digitrax DT400. Unfortunately it is longer being sold - not enough sales to keep it going. An iPhone app could be developed, the problem is recouping the investment to write, test, and market the app over a relatively limited market.
Easy. The Locobuffer computer interface is capable of being a Loconet 'master' in place of a command station, as is the Digitrax BDL168 block detector. Being the 'master' just means a current source for the Loconet power, a function normally provided by a Digitrax command station. Obviously you cannot use the same 6 wire cable that you use for the NCE cabs, but have to run a second 6 wire cable for Loconet. Look at the thread about posting pictures of your DCC panels, there's someone posted in there uses NCE to run the trains and Digitrax for detection and signalling. I know NCE now has a signal controller, but it requires an additional 4 wire cable between the signal units because the cab bus can't carry that sort of traffic.
Heck, you can use Loconet for signalling and detection on a DC layout.
WSOR 3801 rrinker I'm thinking there ought to be a way to make an iphone app that could be a throttle - iphone does 802.11, and JMRI already has the bits to allow a remote computer to interface to the layout through a second computer. What if the throttle app was on the iphone and talked via 802.11 to the pc with the railroad interface? Shake the phone for an e-stop! I thought the UR92 (duplex radio transciever) was a 802.11 device. The iphone throttle may not be too far out... KCS used oscillating headlights for a long time. Might still be using them on older power. Newer power wouldn't have it.
The DT402D duplex radio uses 2.4GHz, but it's not 802.11.
As for 28 functions - don't need'em. No ditch lights or beacons in my era, just headlights and reverse lights, bell, whistle/horn, and I'll reserve one for uncoupling or at least the sound of it, two for manual notching of a diesel, and one for dynamic brakes. Oh and one for dimming the headlight. That's only 8 so far. I don't need station calls, farmyard sounds, city sounds, or train wreck sounds. Add 2 more if I want to do the record and playback feature on the new paragon2's, but that also borders on gimmicky to me. For the majority of my locos that don;t ahve sound, I need at most 2, maybe 3 functions. Lights on/off, dim headlight, and maybe uncoupling if they get that all worked out - although just uncoupling from the loco is nearly pointless anyway.
Hamltnblue...At a minimum they should have a menu structure similar to NCE's if not greatly enhanced. Memory is cheap these days. Coming out with a throttle that is almost as good as the competitions couple year old solution is unacceptable in my opinion...
pastorbob...as a long time and happy NCE user, it is a non event for me. I hope it does work well for youse Digitrax guys, did notice the radio throttle looked a little pricey...
I saw that the Duplex is on 2.4 Ghz, does anyone know what outeffect it has? 1 watt or EEC legal 0.1 Watt?
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Graffen I saw that the Duplex is on 2.4 Ghz, does anyone know what outeffect it has? 1 watt or EEC legal 0.1 Watt?
Word on the street is that one of the primary objectives of this product was to have an EEC legal system. Much of the early testing was done in Europe. I would expect that when Digitrax makes public announcements about the release that this will become more clear.
The DT402 and the UR92 are now showing up on the main on-line retailer web sites with discount pricing.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
pastorbobdid notice the radio throttle looked a little pricey
Street prices are almost identical. From www.litchfieldstation.com
Throttle Digitrax 199.89 NCE 195.00
Radio base station Digitrax 127.89 NCE 125.00
The UR92 is reported to have very good range, so it may not need to add a $100 repeater that is sometimes needed with the NCE wireless.
For what it is worth, comparing prices on Tony's Trains the Digitrax Duplex wireless 5A Superchief Xtra starter set is $527 compared to $545 for the equivalent NCE. So it looks like the 2 main US competitors are right in line with each other on pricing. With price being so close, it is very unlikely that price will be a determining factor for a purchaser making a comparison.
CSX RobertI like the Digitrax throttle better...and I like the button layout better, especially the phone pad number layout that Digitrax uses over the 2 rows of 4 plus 2 more number layout that NCE uses.
It all comes down to personal preference, doesn't it? I personally enjoy the clearly labeled, larger buttons on my Power Cab throttle - and that fact that very few of them are "dual-purpose". But...I can get used to either throttle.
On the DT400D: I had a chance to use one at the Digitrax booth back in March, at a WGH show. The sequence between operating a turnout then the locomotive took a little getting used to but it worked well.
I am happy for all you Digitrax wireless users. You've been waiting a long time for this and now it's here. Woohoo!
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage CSX RobertI like the Digitrax throttle better...and I like the button layout better, especially the phone pad number layout that Digitrax uses over the 2 rows of 4 plus 2 more number layout that NCE uses. It all comes down to personal preference, doesn't it? I personally enjoy the clearly labeled, larger buttons on my Power Cab throttle - and that fact that very few of them are "dual-purpose". But...I can get used to either throttle. On the DT400D: I had a chance to use one at the Digitrax booth back in March, at a WGH show. The sequence between operating a turnout then the locomotive took a little getting used to but it worked well. I am happy for all you Digitrax wireless users. You've been waiting a long time for this and now it's here. Woohoo! Tom
I agree with you Tom, this is a matter of personal preference. I own a Power Cab, I am an occasional operator on a PH Pro layout and helping a neighbor wiring/building his PH Pro set up, I can say I use NCE regularly. On the other hand I also own a Zephyr and my club uses a Super Chief and of course I own a DT400 throttle, I can also say I am a regular user of Digitrax.
When selecting an engine I will naturally look at the keyboard and the display and appreciate both NCE and Digitrax cab layout. Building consist is different, here Digitrax's way is more to my liking than the Menu Driven sequences of NCE. When running the trains I watch the train and what lies ahead, I don't look at the display. When killing consist I prefer the NCE way.
To program sophisticated lighting effects or adjusting sound decoders I will use Decoder Pro. Therefore both cabs are out of the equation. If I have to program only one particular CV then I reach for the DT400. I prefer the faster approach of Digitrax over the Menu driven sequences of NCE. For some reasons I feel the NCE Cab is controlling me instead the other way around.
As far as the new series of DT402 throttles, I don't really need duplex radio. Plugging once at the beginning of an operating session and plugging again at the end of the day is not a chore to me. Even the NCE layout I am an operator does not use radio with official operating sessions. Operators have to be plugged in at all time, this can be confusing at time when three operators reach for the same 2 outlets panel at the same time.
F0 to F28 is also not a must, I use 5 functions at the most and if there is something I can't go without in F13 to F28, I can always map them to one function below F13.
I will not rush in line to get that new throttle.
Jack W.
CSX RobertHamltnblue...At a minimum they should have a menu structure similar to NCE's if not greatly enhanced. Memory is cheap these days. Coming out with a throttle that is almost as good as the competitions couple year old solution is unacceptable in my opinion... Why would they want to emulate NCE's menu structure when the DT400 works great and is plenty easy enough to use as it is(if it ain't broke, don't fix it). I don't know what you mean by "almost as good," personally, I like the Digitrax throttle better. I find the dual throttle capability very handy, I prefer the lighter more compact design of the Digitrax, and I like the button layout better, especially the phone pad number layout that Digitrax uses over the 2 rows of 4 plus 2 more number layout that NCE uses.
I totally agee with CSX Robert's comments, as I do with Tom Stage's personal preference comment.
But, for me, I have to say that I have tried them all on my layout and I absolutely, positively, unequivocably, with no question prefer the DT400 design. I just don't like using the NCE "dogbone". I even like the MRC throttle better than NCE. You just have to use a throttle for awhile until you realize what works best for you.
If Digitrax ever changes the DT400 design I'm sure it will probably be good, but I don't care if they ever change it. Using the DT400, and soon the DT402D, it's just so easy and such a pleasure compared to the others. I really love this throttle design, and the more I use it the more I like it. Thank you Digitrax!
Of course, for others, I know there will be other opinions, but for those just looking into systems, give the DT40.. design a good try. You just might really like it.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
I anticipate deciding to build a new layout sometime in the next three years. The idea is to substantially improve both the length of mainline visible runs and the overal utility of what I have now, and that necessarily means a larger footprint. I hope to use an unused loft above our garage out-building that measures 15' X 30'. When that happens, I'll convert my DB150 to a reverser or a booster, and get the newest duplex so that I can move around at will, forgetting about where the nearest plug-in station is located. I would be very pleased if the newest throttle were even close to my current DT400's, I like them that much. Just for the sake of the twin encoder throttles on each paddle, it would be worth having them from my standpoint and experience.
-Crandell
I have been waiting to upgrade to radio for some time and have resisted purchasing the UR91 in the knowledge that this was coming. Little did I know it would be an almost 2 year wait! Anyway, I ordered a DT402D and a UR92 from Bruce at Litchfield yesterday. Hopefully I will be well near the front of the queue and get it soon. Happy Father's Day to me I think Just this afternoon my wife said she had no idea what to get me for Father's Day. "No problem" I said "I already took care of it"
Well, then - A beearly (vs. belated) "Happy Father's Day, Simon!" And you realize when you get your DT402D and UR92 that you will be required to write and submit a review on it. That's part of the privilege and responsibility for being first.