At the end of 1959, my family took a trip from Chicago to Milwaukee on the North Shore. I distinctly remember the train running the last mile or so on street tracks and we stopped for a traffic light. I can't remember how fast were were going but I'm pretty sure it was no faster than the vehicle traffic.
In Oakland CA, there is on-street running for UP and Amtrak and Caltrain right now, for 4 blocks, on Embarcadero West (our quaint name for First Street). Trains proceed rather slowly, probably about 25 MPH (haven't clocked them).
There don't seem to be many car-train problems. Trains are big; you are not. That becomes more evident the closer they get.
I do recall a pedestrian who should have known better, who walked around the end of a train, only to be hit by one on the next track. Also kids crossing a stopped train. They usually don't get hurt, but they can get a pretty scary reminder that life can be short. And hopefully learn.
There used to be the Western Pacific mainline, two blocks north, on 3rd Street. You could eat your breakfast at the Oakland Grill (outside, at the tables on the sidewalk), and have a UP train pass 20 feet away. This was in the produce district, so there could be some LOUD honking of horns. And maybe some bad words.
The on-street running of the WP (later UP) was 17 blocks, and once featured the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR stopping at the WP station on 3rd.
Ed
Norfolk Southern's semi-famous run down Main St in West Brownsville, PA has a speed limit of 25, just like the rest of the line down the Mon River. Nothing special there.
NHTX Municipalities may not be able to impose restrictions on railroad operations on its streets. The railroads do it themselves. In today's lawsuit-happy society, a large segment is just waiting for the opportunity, aided some pegleg, ambulance chasing shyster, to get into the railroad's "deep" pockets. What railroad can afford a $5,000,000 dollar lawsuit-or more if death was involved? A few days off without pay, make believers out of most of the rule-breakers. The opportunites for an "accident" with somthing having the physical characteristics of railroad equipment played large part in the abandonment, and removal of much of America's street trackage.
Municipalities may not be able to impose restrictions on railroad operations on its streets. The railroads do it themselves. In today's lawsuit-happy society, a large segment is just waiting for the opportunity, aided some pegleg, ambulance chasing shyster, to get into the railroad's "deep" pockets. What railroad can afford a $5,000,000 dollar lawsuit-or more if death was involved? A few days off without pay, make believers out of most of the rule-breakers. The opportunites for an "accident" with somthing having the physical characteristics of railroad equipment played large part in the abandonment, and removal of much of America's street trackage.
I forgot about the lawsuit factor
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
David, Weymouth is still in use? I could be wrong but thought that was b eing terminated.
SHane
Municipalities may not be able to impose restrictions on railroad operations on its streets. The railroads do it themselves. In today's lawsuit-happy society, a large segment is just waiting for the opportunity, aided by some pegleg, ambulance chasing shyster, to get into the railroad's "deep" pockets. What railroad can afford a $5,000,000 dollar lawsuit-or more if death was involved? A few days off without pay, makes believers out of most of the rule-breakers. The opportunites for an "accident" with somthing having the physical characteristics of railroad equipment played large part in the abandonment, and removal of much of America's street trackage.
As a kid growing up in Brooklyn, I remember the Busch Terminal Railroad trains running along first avenue. They did not move very fast as the sharp curves into the buildings and side streets made anything over 10 MPH questionable.
As a kid growing up in Philadelphia I can vaguely remember a PRR A5S 0-4-0 switcher and later a Ge 44 ton diesel on Delaware Ave along the Delaware River doing at most 5 mph and probably less then 2 mph. Every year a drunk would come out of one of the seedy bars and drive off thinking he would teach the big motorcycle with the bright headlight a lesson by forcing him off the road. They always lost and always made the news.
This is how it is done U.K. style.
Weymouth Harbor Branch (Quay Tramway) Slow running a neccessity.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
wjstixIn reality, the railroad has to obey the laws of each city, county, and state it runs through. The city owns the city street, so they get to make the rules.
In reality no.
The cities used to do this and used to restrict the railroads until the railroads took them to court and won. The Federal Government has sole jurisdiction over the speeds of railroad tracks. All of the city imposed speed restrictions have been lifted as a result. The city owns the street but the railroad doesn't operate ON the street. It is not a "motor vehicle" in the eyes of the law. The state motor vehicle codes do not apply to railroads or trains. This was particularly important for drug testing in the case of grade crossing accidents. Only the railroad has authority to conduct a drug test on a train crew, EXCEPT in the state of Louisiana for fatal crossing accidents because the drug testing law is in the criminal code, not the traffic code.
And I know this because as trainmaster, I carried a letter from our legal dept. with a statement from the state attorney general affirming that, we carried the letter just in case a local cop would try to enforce highway regulations on a train. I also had to audit all the speed restrictions on my territory and make sure they were for track conditions and issue a general order raising the ones for city ordinaces.
So this is pretty era dependent, if its pre-1970's then city ordinances might be in effect, if its post 1980's they probably aren't.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Remember the question involves what laws or rules must be obeyed by a railroad who has built and is operating a line in the middle of a city street.
I give up. You win.
Believe whatever you want.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannBut interstate commerce for the win.
Using that logic, a trucker moving a load from one state to another wouldn't have to obey any speed limits when driving through a town on a local road, since trucking is "interstate transportation".
wjstixIn reality, the railroad has to obey the laws of each city, county, and state it runs through, just like how an interstate trucker driving through a town has to obey the speed limit laws same as anyone else on that road.
Yeah, many towns have tried to do all sorts of regulations.
But interstate commerce for the win.
Our timetable speed limits are not made by the towns.
zugmann NHTX The municipality may set restrictions on train speed, train length, hours trains may operate on it's thoroughfares, and require the use of "shoving platforms".
NHTX The municipality may set restrictions on train speed, train length, hours trains may operate on it's thoroughfares, and require the use of "shoving platforms".
In reality, the railroad has to obey the laws of each city, county, and state it runs through. The city owns the city street, so they get to make the rules.
I mean, they can try, but they aren't going to get very far with it if the RR doesn't want to play ball.
The requirements for street running on todays railroads are the same as years gone by. The variables are dictated by the street locations, vehicular traffic and city ordinance.
Are the streets residential, industrial, or commercial? In most cases, the trains are limited to no more than 15 MPH and quite possibly much less than that. A train may be required to be able to obey traffic signals if vehicle saturation is high. Vehicle traffic in busy, commercial areas will be different from industrial zones. Industrial zone traffic creates a different set of headaches with vehicles parked blocking the rails. Substandard curve radii restrict the use of long cars. Modern cars with their higher gross weights may be prohibited on certain tracks. Close clearances add another set of restrictions frequently encountered in street operations.
The municipality may set restrictions on train speed, train length, hours trains may operate on it's thoroughfares, and require the use of "shoving platforms". Five miles per hour will be the maximum speed for much of street based operation, including over single point switches. Street running may also feature grades not encountered on "normal" trackage. Those are some of the things I would focus on, for modeling this interesting form of operation.
The only rule for street running is the maximum speed allowed. I am sure that it is at most restricted speed probably less.
The Utica, NY Brewery job:
Fun Stuff.
dehusman None.
None.
Sounds pretty-much the same as some of those film clips of early 1900s street running in New York City and San Francisco, on the Shorpy site.
Wayne
What is the modern requirements for locomotives on street running for switching operations? Light packages and locomotive modification requirements and such to do industrial switching requiring street running. I am finally getting to working on the city scene and this is the last section of trackage to finish. And I am planning on the single leg switches.
Shane