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Diesel Winterization Hatches

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  • Member since
    November 2018
  • From: Just another small town in Ohio
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Diesel Winterization Hatches
Posted by Erie1951 on Saturday, April 18, 2020 12:06 PM

I was looking at a photo of an Erie E8 and noticed what I think are winterization hatches on the roof. How did these things work? Thanks! 

Russ

Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ.  Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, April 18, 2020 12:17 PM

They are over at least one of the radiator fans to control the flow of air into the engine compartment, during cold weather. 

They have louvers inside, under the screen, that can be closed, or adjusted to what ever air flow is needed.

I tried to post a link, but things are getting so bad in here, it's not working. Grumpy

I'll try again.  NOPE not working.

Mike.

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Posted by Erie1951 on Saturday, April 18, 2020 12:40 PM

Thanks for the info, Mike. Thumbs Up

Russ

Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ.  Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, April 18, 2020 1:06 PM

As air passes over the radiator, it absorbs heat from the coolant in the radiator. The "winterization hatch" is just a flue that directs some of this warmed air from a radiator fan back into the engine compartment.

They are extremely low-tech devices.

The part that we put on our models is just the housing.

There are a lot more devices that contribute to "winterizing" a locomotive, but they are all under the hood so are never modeled.

Heavy equipment would have similar devices. When this equipment was moved to Florida, all this nonsense was removed and put in the scrap pile.

I have even seen electric blankets for fuel tanks! MADNESS!

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:11 PM

 Madness? Tell that to the guys running heavy equipment in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska. Laugh

                        --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:59 PM

SeeYou190
I have even seen electric blankets for fuel tanks! MADNESS!

Kevin is correct on locomotives having all sorts of add-ons to operate in cold weather.  

Diesel locomotives don't have anti-freeze in the water (too many leaks in a the cooling systems and it would foul the engines).  So when the temperature gets below 40 degr F they run the engines 24x7 to keep the water in the engine from freezing.  The instructions say that if its below 40 degrees and the engine dies, and can't be restarted, it has to be drained, some have automatic drains if they get too cold.

There is a temperature (and I can't remember what it is off hand) at which diesel fuel "gels" and clogs up the fuel system.  The object of all the heater systems is to keep the fuel above that temperature.

Some engines have a fuel pump that circulates excess fuel up into the engine in order to warm it and the overflow runs back down into the fuel tank to keep it warm.  Some systems have electric heater coils in the fuel tank.  They tried running coolant water through the fuel tank but any leak at all screws up the fuel even worse.  There are some extreme cold systems that have a small "pony" engine that circulates and heats the coolant water and heats the fuel so the main engine can be shut down.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, April 18, 2020 3:33 PM

Hi, Russ

I seem to recall this question came up once before and I made a scan out of an EMD instruction manual regarding the ventilating hoods:

 E8_ventilation by Edmund, on Flickr


 E8_ventilation_0002 by Edmund, on Flickr


 

Youu'll be happy to know that the pages I scanned were out of an E8 manual from ERIE Diesel Training Car 10 Yes

 Erie_EMD-cover by Edmund, on Flickr

 

 

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by dknelson on Sunday, April 19, 2020 10:24 AM

You don't see it so much anymore, but it used to be common in Wisconsin to see an electric plug sticking out of the front grill of an automobile -- so you could plug in your car's block heater on cold winter nights.  I think there were also "dipstick" heaters that heated only the oil.  I had one car with a block heater and my assigned outdoor parking spot was next to a lamp pole that had an electric outlet at the base.  A nice thing to have during those winters when sometimes it would be below zero for over a week.

I'm told that in Alaska a "good host" was one who had numerous electric outlets for all his party guests to plug their cars into during a dinner party.

Speaking of modeling - how many model winter scenes, and if so how many add sheets of cardboard in front of the grill on their trucks?  You still see that up here in the frozen north.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 19, 2020 10:39 AM

dknelson
but it used to be common in Wisconsin to see an electric plug sticking out of the front grill of an automobile -- so you could plug in your car's block heater on cold winter nights.

Believe it or not, there are block heaters used in Florida.

Sugar Cane and Oranges are harvested in the winter months, and harvesting is a 4:00 AM to Midnight operation.

Much of the harvesting equipment has block heaters so the crews do not need to wait for anything to warm up. Get to the fields, start the equipment, and get to work. Time is dimes.

Oranges will be destroyed if they are on the tree in a freeze, so if there is cold weather predicted for January, it can become a 24 hour operation to harvest oranges some seasons.

Of course, all industrial stand by electric generators have block and crankcase heaters. They are expected to be able to go to full load within 20 seconds of start up.

I had a block heater on my F-150 and used it in the winter. I doubt it actually did me any good.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Erie1951 on Sunday, April 19, 2020 10:59 AM

Thanks for the diagram and info, Ed! Now I get it. Smile, Wink & Grin

Russ

Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ.  Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/

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  • From: Equestria
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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, April 19, 2020 11:12 AM

dehusman
Diesel locomotives don't have anti-freeze in the water (too many leaks in a the cooling systems and it would foul the engines).  So when the temperature gets below 40 degr F they run the engines 24x7 to keep the water in the engine from freezing.  The instructions say that if its below 40 degrees and the engine dies, and can't be restarted, it has to be drained, some have automatic drains if they get too cold.

I've read the H-blocks on the 90macs were designed to be able to use coolant.  Whether anyone used it for much, I couldn't tell you.  Also read many caterpillar-engined locomotives used coolant. Plus some shortlines/industries ran coolant in whatever they ran. Just kept on top of leaks, I guess.

 

We use water, but have GURU Plugs that will open up and dump coolant water before it freezes.  

 The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by dehusman on Sunday, April 19, 2020 7:27 PM

zugmann
I've read the H-blocks on the 90macs were designed to be able to use coolant.

Unfortunately so much of the 90MAC's wasn't designed to work that a lot of them spent a good bit of their lives dead, drained and stored so it probably wasn't that helpful. Smile

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, April 20, 2020 8:42 AM

dehusman
Unfortunately so much of the 90MAC's wasn't designed to work that a lot of them spent a good bit of their lives dead, drained and stored so it probably wasn't that helpful. 

True.  80macs held in for a bit, though.  But they were tired by the end. 

 The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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