BNSF UP and others modeler4. Can I have RIP tracks and loco maintenence tracks for a yard of no more than 10 tracks wide that will be 10ft long around a curve? Or is my yard going to be too small for those to be accurate.
I've worked in 10-track yards. They either had a dedicated RIP track, or shop cars were thrown to the same track. Normally off to the end, with easy road access for a car repair truck.
As far as engine tracks - dsepends how many engines you have. Even if there is only one set of engines, they usually get parked in the same spot, even if it's just on one of the yard tracks or on the lead (close to the office, of course). Just be sure to put an oil absorbant mat under it, or make sure the track under it is oil-colored.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
BNSF UP and others modelerhe helix I am considering lowering to 24" radius,
Experienced modelers have found that is too tight for the long (and tall) modern equipment that you said you wanted to run.
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Okie Dokie. Will do.
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
You should be able to make a smaller yard fit. Looking forward to seeing the new plans.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Upon doing more looking, I have narrowed down my yard plan and I can lay track from there. How about I just show you the final results as proof?
I think you undersetimate how much room things take up.
Get a left and right hand switch of your chosen make and size. Photocopy them and cut out the photocopies, then lay them out on the benchwork to see how much room they take up. You have way less room than you think you have.
Also, if you are going to have a lower level you need to plan that and allow for that benchwork BEFORE you build the upper levels. It is much more difficult to build benchwork under another level and no fun at all to try and lay track under an upper level unless you plan it before hand.
#6's, in ho scale. I will not be overly picky about scenery in that area, as there will be a high concentration of track and industry. On the other side, closest to veiwers not in the access "hole" there will be more scenery. As I said, I am quite happy with what I have and am perfectly certian I can do what I want realistically in the plan and layout shape that I have. The helix I am considering lowering to 24" radius, which will take up 4ft square. I don't care how much space it takes. I am planning on having it as an offset/cutaway design, so I still get some scenic value out of it. It would allow trains to go down into potential staging (no solid plans yet), up to the second level (nothing there yet either), and loop around for a second, delayed appearence back on level 1. The advantages and extra space given far outweigh the space it takes up.
Showing 3 people and a chair in an access hole that can hold one person comfortably threw me.
Back to the design. The helix STILL eats up a 3rd of the space.
What size swiches are you planning? Assuming HO, a #6 switch is a foot long, so a straight 10 track lead is about 9-10 ft long. A 10 track #6 compound lead is more in the 6-7 ft long range. Neither one will fit in the space between the tunnel opening and where the track starts curving.
If you go with #4 switches a switch is about 9" long, so a 10 track lead is just shy of 8 ft long, a compund lead about 5-6 ft long. I doubt you could fit a 10 track #4 compound lead between the tunnel portal and the spot the main curves.
What size yard will depend on what size switches you want and what size equipment you want to operate and how many cars you want to hold in each track. I'm thinking something in the range of a main, a siding, a double end track and 2 or 3 stub tracks.
Putting the main track right along the back edge of the layout will really hamper scenery if that's important to you.
Basically you have maybe the same square footage as a 4x8 layout. Actually I would suggest looking at 4x8 layouts you like, lose the helix and then cut the 4x8 into quarters and put one quarter in each corner and connect them up as start.
I can comfortably reach almost, if not all the way across the entire area where the yard will be. The widest "section" of benchwork that the yard will sit on is 3 feet. The other noteworthy thing about the benchwork is that I built it so that it can support a person leaning or sitting on it. Why I would need to full on sit on it, I cannot say, but you never know...The rest of the scene will be as follows:
A double track mainline around the whole lower level, disappearing at more than 1 point. This will for the border of the yard, as it will be within the loop these two tracks make (if that makes sense). I will have a passenger station along the backdrop a few feet to the left of the planned helix. I will also be modeling a tank car unloading facility, boxcar loading dock, and various industries that would take things shipped in the hoppers, gons, boxcars, etc that I have. Thats about all for the lower level.
BNSF UP and others modelerThere is PLENTY of operating space and PLENTY of access to all parts of the layout.
Using the scale on the drawing provides benchwork 36" deep at left, and deeper than that in the corners. It's easy to misread the scale, as the people in the drawing are a scale 15" wide at the shoulder if one square = 3". Drop full scale people into the operating pit and the available operating space becomes very tight.
If you have the benchwork up, how reachable are all areas of the planned yard for access (both for building and maintenance)? The yard you are discussing would not require much benchwork depth at all - I have a 10 track yard in HO that fits comfortably on 24" benchwork. What is planned for the rest of the scene? Is the yard planned to be at the front or back? Where will it be in the room? Will you have to reach over it to build or maintain other parts of the layout?
Rob Spangler
What scale TRAINS are the OP talking about? N scale and smaller, he may be okay with his projected footprint. Nowhere in this thread is the scale the OP is working in mentioned.
Dave, if you look at the top of the sketch, the scale is there. You can expand the image if needed. It is 1:12. Every square represents 3 inches. The total footprint I am working within is 6 3/4ft by 11ft. Most of the benchwork is built. There is PLENTY of operating space and PLENTY of access to all parts of the layout. Where the helix might go, bracing was spaced farther apart than illustrated to allow comfortable access. I am quite happy with everything so far. Now, back to yard rules of thumb like we were getting...
FWIW,
I was operating on a layout over the weekend.
I found that my train of 89' flats barely made it through #6 turnouts (coupler offset). It was happy on 48" radius curves. Not REAL happy, you understand, but happy (coupler offset). From that experience, if I were building a layout and running my train, I'd use #8 turnouts and 48"+ curves wherever those cars went.
There was one yard. It was a stub end, with 10 tracks. 20' long overall (the yard lead was the double track main coming in). And NO escape tracks. To get an arriving engine out, you have to have a switcher pull the whole train and park it on another track. That kind of ties up the yard, at least parts of it. And the main, at least parts of it. So I'd consider some kind of escape crossover for the arriving train. You can still use those two tracks for regular switching, if you need to.
Escape tracks are on the owner's to-do list.
Ed
dehusmanI would suggest revisiting your basic footprint and refining the trackplan before worrying too much about any details.
As someone who has been building and operating layouts for well over 30 years, I can vouch for what's Dave's saying here. I strongly suggest heeding his advice and re-thinking the basic footprint before it's too late.
BNSF UP and others modeler1. I am planning on 1 A/D track. In some plans I have seen, this runs the whole length of the yard, right along side it. It is currently this way in my plan too. But how do you get an entire train on there from the yard, if it is paralell to it? Does the switcher classify and sort the cars in the yard, and then spot cuts of cars that go on the same train onto the A/D track until it builds the whole train?
Yes. Inbound cars to the yard are pulled back on the yard lead and then classified, switched into the yard tracks, typically based on destination or where they are going next. When they are sorted out, the yard engine builds an outbound train by putting the cars that go on that train into the departure track and the train takes them on their way.
Then would the loco/s come to the front, couple up, then leave?
Correct.
BNSF UP and others modeler2. Can I just have all of the yard tracks split off of the main and then rejoin again at the other end to the same track and still be accurate?
Its better if there is one switch in the main on each end and then the tracks break off that lead.
BNSF UP and others modeler3. Do I need a yard lead?
If you are going to be operating one train at a time, no. If you are going to be operating more than one train at a time (or a train and a yard engine at the same time), then its a good idea.
You can put anything you want. Unless you have a room the size of a basketball court, any layout will be smaller than the prototype. It depends more on the era and what type of yard you are modeling If you are a modeling a ayrd that makes up and breaks down through freights (trains that operate longer distances between major yards) then they would be more likely to have an engine facility and a rip track. If you are modeling a small industry support yard that just supports a couple switch engines and locals to work adjacent industries then an engine facility and rip track would be less likely.
BNSF UP and others modelerThe idea is to have the A/D track/s and turnouts for the main yard tracks start just outside the tunnel by the helix, and rejoin by the time they reach the end of that 1 track that curves around 180 degress and has arrows on it.
I have some serious concerns about your layout. It doesn't appear to be really user friendly. A general rule of thumb is not to make the benchwork more than 3 ft deep and 2 ft is much better because you can't reach more than abut 3 ft. If I read your scale right it appears that one square = 5 inches, and the left side is 12 squares wide, that 5 ft. There is no way you can easily reach across that distance to lay track, repair anything, rerail a car, do scenery, etc, etc. What I assume is a helix is in the order of 48-50 in radius, which makes it 9 ft across. That is a HUGE footprint. You will need to have the interior of that accessible. I personally would look at something more on the order of a 30-36" radius and not waste that much of my space on the helix. That's eating up one third of your floor space.
I would suggest revisiting your basic footprint and refining the trackplan before worrying too much about any details.
You can of course build what you want, but based on many years in the hobby I would suggest rethinking your basic design. I think you will be unhappy ultimately with the design you have drawn.
BNSF UP and others modeler1. I am planning on 1 A/D track. In some plans I have seen, this runs the whole length of the yard, right along side it. It is currently this way in my plan too. But how do you get an entire train on there from the yard, if it is paralell to it? Does the switcher classify and sort the cars in the yard, and then spot cuts of cars that go on the same train onto the A/D track until it builds the whole train? Then would the loco/s come to the front, couple up, then leave? Or is the A/D way far out at one end of the yard and the entire train pulls into that?
Dedicated A/D tracks are out of place on nearly any model yard. They are common in very large prototype yards like hump facilities, but extremely rare in the types of yards we can actually fit into most layouts. Many years back the idea of A/D tracks was popularized in the model press, much to the detriment of layout designers everywhere.
To replicate typical operations for the size of yard you're dealing with (about 10 tracks), allow trains to come and go from whatever track works given the traffic flow around the yard. Have trains double over as necessary when arriving or departing (i.e. use more than one track if the train is too long). In one of the major prototype yards near me, nearly every long train has to double its way in or out because train lengths have increased since the yard went in.
2. Can I just have all of the yard tracks split off of the main and then rejoin again at the other end to the same track and still be accurate?
Yup. That's typical for small yards (i.e. there's one turnout off the main on either end and the ladder comes off of that - assuming that's what you mean).
3. Do I need a yard lead?
If you want to work the yard while staying out of the way of through trains yes. It all depends on what you're attempting to model.
4. Can I have RIP tracks and loco maintenence tracks for a yard of no more than 10 tracks wide that will be 10ft long around a curve? Or is my yard going to be too small for those to be accurate.
Again it depends. Many smaller prototype yards have such facilites, and some do not. Find prototype examples of yards you'd like to represent and see what they have. Get hold of some track charts, condensed profiles, etc. for ideas.
I downloaded it recently on my Nook app. Its available
What I have determined is there is no right or wrong as long as it's functional. And the more efficient the better for realism, but there is always an exception for every rule. The more your railroad is a large modern day major carrier with a lot of green, the more likely the design should be well thought out and super efficient. The poorer you rail company is the more compromises they would be likely to make.
Now all that said, the most important this is to make sure that whatever you do, it works for you regardless of prototype practice. If it becomes a pain to get things done, it's simply not right.
Tried both...
Andy Sperandeo's book Freight Yards. I think you can download a digital version from Kalmbach. I dont know if they are doing a re-print (they should IMO, its an excellent primer on Freight Yards).
Also Google earth is your friend.
In the process of doodling out a yard in the track plan of my new freelanced-but-perfectly-logical-and-realistic-model railroad, a few questions come to mind:
1. I am planning on 1 A/D track. In some plans I have seen, this runs the whole length of the yard, right along side it. It is currently this way in my plan too. But how do you get an entire train on there from the yard, if it is paralell to it? Does the switcher classify and sort the cars in the yard, and then spot cuts of cars that go on the same train onto the A/D track until it builds the whole train? Then would the loco/s come to the front, couple up, then leave? Or is the A/D way far out at one end of the yard and the entire train pulls into that?
I am modelling the modern era, with layouts elements that can easily accomodate earlier equipment (hence the caboose tracks). As usuall, I can post pictures if nescessary. In fact...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XRTenHGxjLsKcuqchq1yztmY8DNu8_Xh
Hopefully that works...
The idea is to have the A/D track/s and turnouts for the main yard tracks start just outside the tunnel by the helix, and rejoin by the time they reach the end of that 1 track that curves around 180 degress and has arrows on it.
I think that should make sense...