Modeling the Flame From A Flare Stack

[caldreamer]

I am putting together an oil refinery and would like to model the flame that shoots out of a flare stack.  Any suggestions on how to model this?

   Thanks In Advance                                      

             Ira

 

[7j43k]

Yeah.  You should blow air up the stack.  At the top of the stack, place "flame shaped" bits of colored celluloid.  Place a light bulb under the strips.  Make darn sure the light bulb can't start a fire.

The air will cause the strips to flutter.

You might also replace the bulb with several LED's that are flashed randomly.

 

Ed

[DJHackett]

I would try one of the inexpensive flickering tea lamps. Diassemble the lamp from the base, wire it into the flare stack, maybe add some transparent orange paint and fire it up. We are assuming full combustion so your flare should not be belching black smoke. 

[BNSF UP and others modeler]

Easy peasy. Use a real flame. One guy did this and it was featured in a 2000's some odd MRR magazine. Which one, I cannot remember.

[caldreamer]

I model in N scle, so the flame would have be really small.

     Ira

[7j43k]

I suppose you MIGHT be able to use a real flame, if you designed it just right. 

No mistakes, though.  Imagine what your insurance agent would say when he found out that it had just burned down your house:  "We won't pay out on THAT claim."

 

Ed

[BNSF UP and others modeler]

oh well....

[gmpullman]

caldreamer

Any suggestions on how to model this?

I have heard of modelers using one of the ultrasonic water atomizer diffusers as a "smoke unit" in a chimney. Perhaps one of these and a blue LED in or near the stack would work for you? 

I don't know what's inside one of these new-fangled "vape" things but something like that might work. I'm no fan of stinky smoke fluid but the water atomizers may hold promise, especially if driven by a tiny blower.

Just a possibility, Good Luck, Ed

[RR_Mel]

I use flickering LEDs for my fireplaces and boilers.  The ones I buy are 3mm and if they’re too big for N gauge use fiber optics.  I buy .5mm. ,75mm, 1mm & 2mm fiber optical cable to remote my LEDs if I need them smaller.  I use orange and yellow together for fireplaces.  The random ywo color flicker looks like the real thing.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=flickering+3mm+LED&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_odkw=flickering+LED

 

Use heat on the end of the fiber optics to make a blob that looks like a flame.

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

 

[BigDaddy]

RR_Mel

. The ones I buy are 3mm

I always thought there was additional circuitry for flickering led's   I thought there was a recent MRVP on the fire in the log blog boiler, but I am not finding it.

What color led or colors do you use to simulate fire?

[caldreamer]

I have some red and clear 1.5 volt micro bulbs.  I was thinking of some orange paint on the bulb and run it to a flicking unit under the layout.  Some cotton sprayed black around the top of the stack might work as well.

[RR_Mel]

BigDaddy

 

 

RR_Mel

. The ones I buy are 3mm

 

 

I always thought there was additional circuitry for flickering led's   I thought there was a recent MRVP on the fire in the log blog boiler, but I am not finding it.

What color led or colors do you use to simulate fire?

 

Henry

 

I bought two 100 packs of 3mm flickering orange and yellow.  I pair them up with separate resistors and run them off my 8½ volt structure power supply.  They randomly flicker so the equivalent ends up looking like a real fire slightly changing from orange to yellow.

 

I have several fireplaces with the dual LEDs and powered from my Arduino Random Lighting Controllers.  I have a toggle that parallels the Arduino so that I can keep them on if I’m showing off my lighting.

 

The LEDs flicker on their own, no special circuitry needed.

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[caldreamer]

RR Mel:

  Where did you get the flickering Led's?  I need just one orange one and it would work great. How many ohm resistor resistor did you use?

 

[RR_Mel]

caldreamer

RR Mel:

  Where did you get the flickering Led's?  I need just one orange one and it would work great. How many ohm resistor resistor did you use?

 

 

I have 276 parts drawers and I ran out of storage space, because the flickering LEDs are not on my list of frequently used goodies I stored them else were and I have looked for them all morning without success.

 

I will continue looking for them and you are welcome to have a dozen or so if I can locate them.  I have 14 two section parts drawers dedicated to LEDs and didn’t make room for the flickering LEDs.

 

Some look empty but they're not.

I bought a 100 pack each of orange and yellow off eBay about 2 or 3 years ago.  I was in a flame mode back then and I built up a couple dozen fireplaces, camp fires and a forge in my roundhouse, haven’t used any since.

 

I remember growing up in EL Paso where there were 4 refineries with flames.  I would think that you will need to use some fiber optics for N scale using a 3mm LED.  I might point out that a single flickering orange LED looks like a flickering orange LED.  Using a yellow with the orange actually looks like a flame.  If you shape a 1mm fiber to look like a flame and drive it with a orange and yellow LED I think it would look very real.

 

 

EDIT:

 

On occasion the flames would look 15’ to 20’ long.

 

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

 

[NWP SWP]

My club used cotton as the smoke from a smokestack, you could use that some LEDs and a small fan to get the cotton to flicker and such.

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

Another method would be to carve a flame from a round plastic or wooden dowel and paint it red, orange and yellow. Yellow being where the flame is the hottest.

[caldreamer]

RR Mel:

  Thanks, I am looking forward to hearing from you.  What size resistor is needed for the LED's?

      Ira

[RR_Mel]

caldreamer

RR Mel:

  Thanks, I am looking forward to hearing from you.  What size resistor is needed for the LED's?

      Ira

 

Still looking.  As best as I can remember I used a 1KΩ ¼ watt resistors on both LEDs from my 8½ volt supply.  They were quite bright but I used them as indirect lighting not straight on.

 

I painted the interior of the fireplaces with Aluminum Crafters paint and positioned the LEDs to flood the fireplace with light from the bottom.  The effect is rather good, the interior room flickers like the real thing with the room light off.  With the room light on you can still see the fire in the fireplace through the windows.

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[NWP SWP]

I'd put some blue or purple at the very base, just a little. Just to get the effect.

[RR_Mel]

The blue on the flames on the four refineries in El Paso was very hard to see, even less as the flame got larger and brighter.

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[RR_Mel]

I’ve searched everywhere and come up empty, sorry.  Here is a link to a similar LED (candle flickering).  I ordered them in a 100 pack without leads and resistors.  These should work for you.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3mm-5V-Candle-Flicker-Pre-Wired-Red-Yellow-Blue-Green-White-Orange-UV-LED-20CM/322598800902?hash=item4b1c630e06%3Am%3AmkX6O2pTuCLKV4JqY5H8NPQ&var=511587945790&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=flickering+3mm+LED&_from=R40&rt=nc

 

I would suggest that you dink around with external resistors to get the proper effect from your power source.

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

 

[caldreamer]

Thanks for the effort.  I will get some and try it.

     Ira

[caldreamer]

Greenway Products has a flickering unit.  I     ordered one to use with my 1.5 volt bulb.  Will report on how well it works.

 

[RR_Mel]

That might look better than using LEDs.  I actually prefer using incandescent bulbs, they look more realistic.  If yours works out I might give one a try too.

 

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[caldreamer]

Mel:

  My flickering unit is on order and should be here Monday.  Will let you know how it works out.

     Ira

  

[peahrens]

First I would concur that any real flame IMHO is a very bad idea, unless in a separate expendable building.  Then just a bad idea.

Second, I admire your initiative to tackle the issue.  Several have given ideas on what might work as a reasonable flame representation.  From there, variables include the option to turn it off, with nothing visible, then tuned on when desired.

The ultimate would be, when not flaring, to have several teeny blue flame gas pilots and perhaps some atomizing steam plume thru leaking valves.  Next stage, active at lower rates, with an orange to bluish flame and minimum blackish smoke due to incomplete combustion. 

The flare tips in the 1980 time frame typically were essentially smokeless, with a clean orange to bluish flame up to some (10%??) of max plant output at beginning of an upset.  Beyond that flow they initially typically produced very significant black smoke (and copious noise) until the plant was dialed back and the mixing steam injection also maximized.  Modelling the heavy black smoke  could lead into a clean track discussion.

At one plant I worked, a "ground flare" was included.  That was a large round cylinder at grade with many burners and steam that very efficiently combusted gas up to the first 10% of relief capacity.  Above that flow a water seal was blown that then allowed gas to go to the elevated flare.

Let us know what you develop.  My small refinery has no flare at this point, not so realistic.

 

 

[caldreamer]

Thank you for the complement.  I watched various videos of flare stacks and most were small to medium flame comping out of the stack, but one  had a flame of about thirty feet.  I will let you know when I get the unit and assemble the components

      Ira

[SeeYou190]

I am not familiar with refineries, but I did watch a couple videos.

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One great feature is that I saw no smoke, that makes it easier for sure.

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I think a comnbination of the flickering light and and some clear plastic could be convincing.

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By the way, I am also 100% against a real flame.

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-Kevin

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[NWP SWP]

My club used cotton and sprayed it red and yellow with a little black at the very end, I think if you do that and the flicker light you'll get a quite realistic representation.

Add a blower and no one will have naysay for it.

[SeeYou190]

Kind of a weird solution, but it might work...

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Armorcast makes resin castings of various "Cinematic Effects" for wargaming miniatures. One of them is rocket launchers at the moment of firing.

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These might work for the flame, but there would be no animation.

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-Kevin

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