The picture below is from the 'streamliner' magazine cover. The picture was taken about 1952. Description inside cover identiies it as F3 1429.
(There is a page crease makes the B unit look bent)
Is this diesel loco an EMD F3 with a winterization hatch?
I read that the UP had turbo chargers installed on some EMD loco's (which expalins the single ehaust)
On Ho scale F3 models the four fans seem taller and on this UP prototype lower with a single exhaust.
Question: is there a manufacture that has this loco with this roof detail or does this require finding detail parts and modifing an F3A and F3B?
Thomas
I'm not an expert on F3's, but yes, that is a winterization hatch on the fourth fan, and it almost looks like there is a second exhaust between the WH and fan 3 ?
It looks like the steam generator is in the B unit. The fans appear a normal height to me, you would have to ad the WH, lifting rings, horns, etc, to match this loco.
Just my take.
Mike.
My You Tube
That looks like a standard 'ol F3 phase 2 with low fans. If you look closely in front of the winterization hatch, the second exhaust stack can be seen.
I've never seen a turbocharged F unit, but i guess anything is possible.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Okay
I cannot tell the difference between the F3 and the F7.
In the picture Mel put up I wonder which B unit that is? E3B or E7B?
I was wrong about turbo charging....that was a GP thing that EMD then UP did.
The answer is....if I am running my (un-built) (imaginary at this point) layout and someone says "is that an F3 or F7?"
I can say "You tell me and we will both know"
I just like the EMD F series next to the 4-8-8-4!
thanks guys........
F-units (usually) had two exhaust stacks: one after the #1 fan, and one after the #3 fan.
The UP did their turbo installations on GP9's, not these.
Ed
I will look for an HO scale EMD F3A phase II.
graymatter In the picture Mel put up I wonder which B unit that is? E3B or E7B?
Those are B-units in the photo, not E's. The last one is one of the 10 F3B's with boilers that the UP had. The numbers, at the date of the photo, were likely:
900B,C
901B,C
902B,C
903B,C
904B,C
The second B doesn't seem to be showing any rooftop boiler fittings.
LOTS of good reading here on UP F units:
http://utahrails.net/articles/up-f-units.php
and a better photo of the roof detail here:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/up/up1424bcb.jpg
(Sans winterization hatch)
Spark arrestors have been added in later years which may make the stacks appear taller, they can be seen in Mel's photo posted above.
I have a few Intermountain F3s that I'm pretty satisfied with:
https://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/49103.htm
Stewart/Bowser, Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis, MTH and a few others have decent models in HO. Take your pick!
Good Luck, Ed
graymatter Okay I will look for an HO scale EMD F3A phase II.
http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=F3+ATHG&CatID=THLD&OA=True&RN=UP
Thanks Ed
The 1500-horsepower F7 differed from the 1500-horsepower F3 mainly by the installation of automatic transition, a 567BC diesel engine, and D47 traction motors.
Missed the Athearn F3 by 8 years!!!!
graymatter Missed the Athearn F3 by 8 years!!!!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/HO-Scale/19128/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=athearn%20f3%20union%20pacific&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
Intermountain has also been known to make them. But they don't look so great in the company photos.
Intermountain or Athearn or MTH.....all look good on the ebay link
Thanks Thomas
7j43k graymatter Missed the Athearn F3 by 8 years!!!! https://www.ebay.com/sch/HO-Scale/19128/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=athearn%20f3%20union%20pacific&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684 Intermountain has also been known to make them. But they don't look so great in the company photos. Ed
?????
Intermountain F units are every bit as well detailed and accurate as Genesis or Proto........
Sheldon
Sheldon,
I will disagree:
http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/49103.htm
Look at the horns.
Look how the winterization hatch FLOATS above the roof. FLOATS!!!
Those fans don't look so great, either.
Take a look at Bowser they ofer a lot of different versions of the F3.
http://www.bowser-trains.com/history/emdf3loco.html
Ron High
7j43k Sheldon, I will disagree: http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/49103.htm Look at the horns. Look how the winterization hatch FLOATS above the roof. FLOATS!!! Those fans don't look so great, either. Ed
Well, I don't model UP and have never seem the the UP version up close, but my B&O set looks great.
Agreed that winterization hatch looks bad - question is are they all like that?
What is wrong with the fans, they look like F3 fans to me?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Agreed that winterization hatch looks bad - question is are they all like that?
Don't know. But that's the one Intermountain chose to "show off".
Here's a shot of an Athearn:
Mostly, the Intermountain just look "funny" to me. I would say that the Intermountain fans have too big a fillet around the fan base, and that there's too much draft angle showing on the sides.
I can't find a good shot of those fan shrouds, so I can't say which is more correct. But they do look different to me.
And one could argue that since the Highliner shell is "officially" the best, then their fans should be, too.
7j43k ATLANTIC CENTRAL Agreed that winterization hatch looks bad - question is are they all like that? Don't know. But that's the one Intermountain chose to "show off". What is wrong with the fans, they look like F3 fans to me? Here's a shot of an Athearn: Mostly, the Intermountain just look "funny" to me. I would say that the Intermountain fans have too big a fillet around the fan base, and that there's too much draft angle showing on the sides. I can't find a good shot of those fan shrouds, so I can't say which is more correct. But they do look different to me. And one could argue that since the Highliner shell is "officially" the best, then their fans should be, too. Ed
I have Intermountain, Proto and Genesis F units, and Highliner kits I built myself. No question the Athearn/Highliner is the very best F unit shell. But overall, the Intermountain and Proto F's are both a very close second.
And all three drives are very nice, while all three have their minor flaws.......
Disclamer - I got bored with OCD rivet counting years ago........
Of course the loco in the OP's photo is an F3 with the low fans........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Of course the loco in the OP's photo is an F3 with the low fans........
It's interesting that the tall fans would sometimes be replaced with lower ones.
It's especially interesting to me that GN was sort of random about that on their passenger F's:
In the photo, the first two fans on the lead unit are the low style, while #3 is still the high. One can also see that there is a raised fan grill on the top of the winterization hatch--also unusual.
Admittedly, this could be called rivet counting.
7j43k ATLANTIC CENTRAL Of course the loco in the OP's photo is an F3 with the low fans........ There ya go: Rivet counting, again. Ed
There ya go: Rivet counting, again.
Eaxctly, so the only way to get it right is buy a hard to find Highliner kit and invest 30-40 hrs, assuming you have the skills........
7j43k ATLANTIC CENTRAL Of course the loco in the OP's photo is an F3 with the low fans........ It's interesting that the tall fans would sometimes be replaced with lower ones. It's especially interesting to me that GN was sort of random about that on their passenger F's. Ed
It's especially interesting to me that GN was sort of random about that on their passenger F's.
Ed, think of it this way, EMD improved the design of the fans, your old style fan wears out, why not install the better style? At some point I suspect the parts to repair/replace the old style became obsolete.
I doubt there was any big change to the car body regarding how the two fan styles are mounted, considering it was "running change" during F3 production.
I have a bunch of F3s of different brands. Intermountain is one LLProto 1000, and Stewart. Intermountain is overall the best with Stewart close behind The proto 1000 comes in last mainly they come with only one headlight where as the others have 2 Inter mountain and proto have good fans and to me they look close enough Stewart has low profile which are not correct. None of these are real important but what bugs me more than that is where they paint the things with the wrong colors.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL 7j43k ATLANTIC CENTRAL Of course the loco in the OP's photo is an F3 with the low fans........ There ya go: Rivet counting, again. Ed Eaxctly, so the only way to get it right is buy a hard to find Highliner kit and invest 30-40 hrs, assuming you have the skills........ Sheldon
Or accept a UP F3 with a lower number--with the high fans. UP had both high and low fans on their F3's. Depending on the number. And, perhaps, the date--since the fans can be changed out. I just saw a shot of UP 1421 with a high fan housing for the #1 position, and low for #2 and #3. And witherization on #4.
If off-the-shelf suits ya, as it frequently does me, fine. If you (or I) want something different and want to build it, also fine.
Ed, theses days, close enough is always good enough for me. Depite my knowledge of the prototype, I have long been in the camp of "overall impression" rather than "exactly correct".
Heck, 95% of my passenger car fleet, B&O, C&O, WM and freelance ATLANTIC CENTRAL, are generic 72' cars.......with lots of detail and close coupled with working diaphragms.
That feature of realism is more noticable, to more people, than exact window arrangements or even car length.
Some later F3s had automatic transition, the F7s with the 567BC engines didn't start production until September 1953, and the D47 traction motor was not used by EMD until mid 1959. Also a few F7s were built with 567C engines to try them out.
graymatter The 1500-horsepower F7 differed from the 1500-horsepower F3 mainly by the installation of automatic transition, a 567BC diesel engine, and D47 traction motors.
CGW121 I have a bunch of F3s of different brands. Intermountain is one LLProto 1000, and Stewart. Intermountain is overall the best with Stewart close behind The proto 1000 comes in last mainly they come with only one headlight where as the others have 2 Inter mountain and proto have good fans and to me they look close enough Stewart has low profile which are not correct. None of these are real important but what bugs me more than that is where they paint the things with the wrong colors.
The low profile fans on the Stewart F3 are NOT wrong, depending on what road name you have. The Reading bought very late F3s which had the low fans of the F7.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/rdg/rdg263s.jpg
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
They are wrong for the CGW. Stewart released F3s in CGW paint. For the ones they released the low profile fans are incorrect. Overall tho I like the Stewart locos. Good runners nice looking.