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An atomic locomotive!?

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An atomic locomotive!?
Posted by LogginLocos on Friday, January 05, 2018 10:35 PM

x-12 locomotive modelyep! It’s true! In 1950, dr Lyle borst drew up a prototype for a nuclear locomotive. In the drawings, the locomotive was going to look like a long E unit with a reactor and a reactor shield in the middle. The front had an extra truck as a pilot. Heat from the reactor would boil water to steam, power a turbine and generate electricity for the traction motors. He named it the X-12 and the only thing stopping the project was money. I will post some photos of the ho scale model I built based on this project.

Tags: Locomotives
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Posted by LogginLocos on Friday, January 05, 2018 10:55 PM

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, January 05, 2018 11:30 PM
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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, January 05, 2018 11:56 PM

Awesome kitbash just don't operate it around me! You may want to glow in the dark but not me! Laugh Seriously though praise the Lord almighty that guy failed with the real one! Think Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima, SL-1, ect... were bad imagine if that thing derailed, yikes! Sigh All those people with rad poisoning which equals Dead we'd probably all have four eyes or something! Laugh or look like this guy! --> Alien That's taking nuclear power to a new level!

I do admire the kitbash though I'm working on a boxcab diesel that has 16 axles! It will leave chewed up ties and twisted rails in its wake! Mischief

 

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Saturday, January 06, 2018 1:12 AM

No, the thing would not spew radiation.  Like nuclear submarines, the reactor heats fluid that passes through a heat exchanger.  And a very tiny reactor would be sufficient.  See also the B-36 atomic energy experiments.

Now, there WAS the nuclear RAMJET in which the nuclear pile was almost completey unshielded and which was designed to spew hard radiation as it flew.  But that's another story.

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 06, 2018 10:53 AM

 With the advent of nuclear power, there were ideas for nuclear powered everything. Not just ships and submarines, but planes, trucks, trains, and spacecraft.

 Practicality and safety issues won out, nuclear propulsion at sea was limited to the Navy, and the weight of the required shielding made most other uses impractical. The only space use that worked out is for unmanned craft (not 100% true), which is why something like the Voyager 1 and 2 probes are still functioning more than 40 years after launch.

 Anyone remember the silly Big Bus movie from the 70's, about the atomic powered bus? It later aired as I think a 2 parter on TV in 1980.

                                       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Saturday, January 06, 2018 11:01 AM

NWP SWP

Think Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima, SL-1, ect... were bad imagine if that thing derailed, yikes! Sigh

 

TMI and SL-1 weren't bad (aside from the three fellows killed).  TMI never lost containment.  SL-1's reactor vessel wasn't breached.  They were practically clean, by comparison to even a routine nuclear weapons test. 

Now, I read the paper about this here nuclear locomotive.  The fuel load was a mere nine kilograms of uranium.  Little Boy, for comparison, sported 64 kilograms.  I couldn't find, with good reason, the amount of nuclear material dispersed during the Palomares Incident, but it stands to reason they carried significantly more than nine kilograms.  The two weapons contaminated an area of about a square mile.  A Soviet Reaktor Bolshoy Moshchnosti Kanalnyy, which is what Chernobyl is, has a whopping 192 tons.

The scale just isn't there for a major accident, or even minor accident, with such little material.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Saturday, January 06, 2018 11:05 AM

rrinker

The only space use that worked out is for unmanned craft (not 100% true), which is why something like the Voyager 1 and 2 probes are still functioning more than 40 years after launch.

Having some first hand experience with such things, space is a fantastic place for nuclear power. You don't have to cool or shield or anything.  Sometimes, you're not even the most radioactive thing around!  It wasn't until a couple years ago that you could even build solar arrays capable of operating past Mars.

Even some solar powered probes carry nuclear heaters and there's been some manned missions that carried nuclear material.  Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package was powered by RTGs.

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Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Saturday, January 06, 2018 11:20 AM

I wonder if Thorium reactors could provide an opportunity to make this a reality? I don't know if there has been any studies done to show what a Thorium reactor would do in a collision, although it has been well documented the mess a Uranium or Plutonium reactor would cause in a collision.

As for some "atomic diesels" the Hanford Site has some ALCO's on display outside one of the preserved B Reactor. The Nevada Southern also has two veteran diesels of the Jackass and Western which ran in the Nevada Test Site.

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, January 06, 2018 11:40 AM

rrinker

 

...nuclear propulsion at sea was limited to the Navy...

                              

 

As a former owner of a model of this ship, I will have to disagree:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah

 

 

Ed

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Posted by dknelson on Saturday, January 06, 2018 11:51 AM

I have vague recollections of a modeler who built a huge freelance locomotive somewhat resembling the very large U50 and of enormous pulling power because it was weighted with depleted uranium, likely at a time before experts began to express concern about the health effects of being exposed to even depleted uranium.  

Dave Nelson

 

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Posted by DSchmitt on Saturday, January 06, 2018 11:58 AM

dknelson

I have vague recollections of a modeler who built a huge freelance locomotive somewhat resembling the very large U50 and of enormous pulling power because it was weighted with depleted uranium, likely at a time before experts began to express concern about the health effects of being exposed to even depleted uranium.  

Dave Nelson

 

 

Jim Fitzgerald  Cotton Brute  N scale                                                                    

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Saturday, January 06, 2018 12:40 PM

Generally speaking, you can handle DU safety, because it isn't a gamma emitter.  Its toxicity comes from being a heavy metal more than a radiological hazard (like your tungsten, arsenic, mercury, and so on).  That said, why would you ever think milling such material in a non-industrial setting was ever a good idea?  That's how you make it a threat to your health: turning it into small particles in the air for you to breath in.

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, January 06, 2018 2:05 PM

dknelson

I have vague recollections of a modeler who built a huge freelance locomotive somewhat resembling the very large U50 and of enormous pulling power because it was weighted with depleted uranium, likely at a time before experts began to express concern about the health effects of being exposed to even depleted uranium.  

Dave Nelson

 

 

 

Shoulda used platinum.  It's denser.  Pretty non-reactive with just about anything.  Easy to machine.  Definitely not radioactive.

And, being N scale, pretty affordable.  I'm estimating about $24,000.

When you die, your wife can have it reshaped into something she finds more useful.  Cash comes to mind.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Saturday, January 06, 2018 2:28 PM

Yeah, the Fifties had some pretty gonzo stuff.

My PERSONAL favorite was a weapons system.. the Davy Crockett.  A suitcase-sized atomic weapon on a recoilless rifle.

Yes, the US Army was going to put nuclear weapons under the command of a second lieutenant with a map!

Crying

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by DSchmitt on Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:14 PM

7j43k
                                                                                                       

dknelson

I have vague recollections of a modeler who built a huge freelance locomotive somewhat resembling the very large U50 and of enormous pulling power because it was weighted with depleted uranium, likely at a time before experts began to express concern about the health effects of being exposed to even depleted uranium.  

Dave Nelson

 

 

 

 

 

Shoulda used platinum.  It's denser.  Pretty non-reactive with just about anything.  Easy to machine.  Definitely not radioactive.

And, being N scale, pretty affordable.  I'm estimating about $24,000.

When you die, your wife can have it reshaped into something she finds more useful.  Cash comes to mind.

 

 

Ed

 

 

By Jim Fitzgeral from NTRak NewsletterSept/Oct 1983

The "Cotton Brute" and long trains.
The origional goal was a 500 car train based on a N&W 500 car train that ran from West Virginia to Ohio when remote control mid train helpers were first used by N&W.
The “Cotton Brute” was the star of a series of special locomotives that I built for long train tries. I did a word search for four and five letter words starting with "B". Other locomotives were Cotton Bell, Cotton Bull and Cotton Boss, all in SP / Cotton Belt scarlet and grey.
The photo of the Cotton Brute is a composite showing the complete engine in the foreground and an exploded view. The long fuel tank/frame is indeed depleted uranium. Where I worked we had made some experimental gyros of the material. Other materials were easier to precisely machine.
The top weights are machined from lead and completely fill the thin shell. The engine weighs 24 oz, 1-1/2 pounds and has a Sagami 1630 motor. The longest train with just the Cotton Brute on the head end was 560 Kadee (MicroTrains) two bay coal cars. The custom layout had 72" minimum radius curves in a folded dogbone shape.
There were 560 Kadee two bay hoppers with modified Rapido couplers used for the long train efforts.
The layout used was built just for long trains. It was single track with 6 foot minimum radius in a “dogbone” shape. There was one trailing point turnout from a siding used to set up additional strings of cars to add to the train. The modules were about 4’ long and made from 3/8” particle board.

 

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:49 PM

How in the world did that guy get a hold of depleted uranium???

Also has anyone seen my Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator??? Laugh

Even if the radioactive material in the machine was only nine grams, you still have heavy water/steam and then corium in the event of melt down...

The Davy Crockett system was part of the gung-ho nuke policy of the early atomic age, having recruits stand unshielded tp observe tests, having a bunch of scientists stand at ground zero of an airblast test to prove how "safe" it was, not to mention the hydrogen tests in the Pacific and the ships with full crews within the blast radius... goes to show you how when you know little about something you do dumb things... 

The Cotton Brute is a cool idea just sand the DU...

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 06, 2018 4:54 PM

7j43k

 

 
rrinker

 

...nuclear propulsion at sea was limited to the Navy...

                              

 

 

 

As a former owner of a model of this ship, I will have to disagree:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah

 

 

Ed

 

 Exactly. The ONLY one, no more ever made, nuclear propulsion was limited to Navy vessels only.

                                --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 06, 2018 4:56 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway

Yeah, the Fifties had some pretty gonzo stuff.

My PERSONAL favorite was a weapons system.. the Davy Crockett.  A suitcase-sized atomic weapon on a recoilless rifle.

Yes, the US Army was going to put nuclear weapons under the command of a second lieutenant with a map!

Crying

 

 Best part of that one was that the blast radius of the detonation was greater than the effective range of the weapon.

                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by dknelson on Saturday, January 06, 2018 5:24 PM

Yes that is it: the Cotton Brute is exactly the locomotive I was remembering.  It was pictured and described in MR but I do not think it was an actual full article, maybe just a photo in Trackside Photos.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, January 06, 2018 5:37 PM

rrinker

 

 
7j43k

 

 
rrinker

 

...nuclear propulsion at sea was limited to the Navy...

                              

 

 

 

As a former owner of a model of this ship, I will have to disagree:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah

 

 

Ed

 

 

 

 Exactly. The ONLY one, no more ever made, nuclear propulsion was limited to Navy vessels only.

                                --Randy

 

 

 

Exactly?  One is NOT equal to none.  It is DRAMATICALLY not equal.  

The article also states there was more than one, so "ONLY" doesn't apply, either.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, January 06, 2018 6:15 PM

 See I knew someone would nitpick when I didn't mention the Savannah. I didn't say there were none, if you read the whole sentence. 

 I guess if you are really going to nitpick, you need to mention the one Japanese, one German, and one Soviet merchant ships that were nuclear powered, and all the Soviet icebreakers (but if you think those were civilian ships, LOL )

 It remains that no one is allowed to just build a nucelar merchant ship, after the one-off Savannah. WHich wasn;t exactly successful anyway as she was built as a cross between a cargo ship and a luxury superyacht and didn't carry much cargo, and was completely incompatible with more modern automated piers.

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, January 06, 2018 7:11 PM

rrinker

 See I knew someone would nitpick when I didn't mention the Savannah. I didn't say there were none, if you read the whole sentence. 

 

 
I'll reread it:
 
" Practicality and safety issues won out, nuclear propulsion at sea was limited to the Navy, and the weight of the required shielding made most other uses impractical."
 
 
Yeah.  That "limited to the Navy" kinda mislead me, somehow.
 
 
Ed
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, January 06, 2018 7:27 PM

NWP SWP
goes to show you how when you know little about something you do dumb things...

.

This might be my favorite quote of 2018, even though we are not even 2% into the year.

.

-Kevin

.

Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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Posted by DSchmitt on Saturday, January 06, 2018 9:22 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
NWP SWP
goes to show you how when you know little about something you do dumb things...

 

.

This might be my favorite quote of 2018, even though we are not even 2% into the year.

.

-Kevin

 

 

 

But sometimes you come up with a better way of doing something.

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Saturday, January 06, 2018 9:53 PM

NWP SWP

How in the world did that guy get a hold of depleted uranium???

 

You can legally own small amounts. Used to be fairly common as trim weight in airliners and sailboats. 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, January 06, 2018 10:34 PM

DSchmitt

 

 
SeeYou190

 

 
NWP SWP
goes to show you how when you know little about something you do dumb things...

 

.

This might be my favorite quote of 2018, even though we are not even 2% into the year.

.

-Kevin

 

 

 

 

 

But sometimes you come up with a better way of doing something.

 

Like not nuking your own people and not building atomic powered everything... Laugh

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, January 06, 2018 10:38 PM

rrinker

 

Bayfield Transfer Railway

Yeah, the Fifties had some pretty gonzo stuff.

My PERSONAL favorite was a weapons system.. the Davy Crockett.  A suitcase-sized atomic weapon on a recoilless rifle.

Yes, the US Army was going to put nuclear weapons under the command of a second lieutenant with a map!

Crying

 

 

 

 Best part of that one was that the blast radius of the detonation was greater than the effective range of the weapon.

                     --Randy

 

 

 I forgot to mention that yes the blast range was greater than the weapons launch range! Again in the words of Sgt. Schultz, we knew nothing, nothing! When it came to radiation in the early atomic age...

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, January 06, 2018 10:43 PM

And also does anyone know that the great state of m, i, crooked letter, crooked letter, i, crooked letter, crooked letter, i, humpback, humpback, i, or Mississippi was the site of not one but two atomic detonation tests? Both were underground of course...

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, January 06, 2018 11:14 PM

I also heard some of it leaked over to LA via the bayous...Clown

http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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