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Where are all the box cars?

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:08 AM

ericsp

 

 
BRAKIE
 
jeffhergert
They use a basic AAR Mechanical code designation for this reporting. Looking at the codes listed for box cars, I think they group mechanical refrigerator cars in the box car group. Jeff

 

Yes,Reefers are included but,as you may know there are far more boxcars then reefers.

As a side note should you visit Fostoria you will see a reefer train from California. Some times it has U.P power.

 

 

 
If you are referring to the Railex trains, the last I heard they were combining the WA and CA trains at Green River, WY.
 

The symbol across Iowa reflects a Cheyenne originating station.  The only Z train on this route that has no intermodal on it.  They have been filling it out with regular box cars that aren't part of the Railex train lately.  From what I've recently read, UP has bought the Railex company.  

Jeff

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:01 AM

DSchmitt

 

 
jeffhergert
They use a basic AAR Mechanical code designation for this reporting.  Looking at the codes listed for box cars, I think they group mechanical refrigerator cars in the box car group. Jeff

 

http://www.nakina.net/other/aartype.html

The designation have been revised over the years, with definations changed, classes added or deleated and there appear to be some cars that could fit in more than one class.    Basically Reefers "R", Boxcars "X"   Mechanical reefers RP   Insulated boxcars have plugdoors and resemble reefers in appearance are "XI" but not all (probably most) plugdoor boxcars cars are not insulated. 

 

 

http://www.railcartracking.com/aar-car-type-codes-explained-resources-2/

The code on this site seems to be the one used on the weekly reporting site.  The reporting site for box cars uses A, B, and R.  A is for equipped box cars (load restraining devices, etc.) B is for unequipped box cars and R is for Refrigerator cars.  It seems like a basic category code.

Jeff

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Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 10:55 PM

jeffhergert
They use a basic AAR Mechanical code designation for this reporting.  Looking at the codes listed for box cars, I think they group mechanical refrigerator cars in the box car group. Jeff

http://www.nakina.net/other/aartype.html

The designation have been revised over the years, with definations changed, classes added or deleated and there appear to be some cars that could fit in more than one class.    Basically Reefers "R", Boxcars "X"   Mechanical reefers RP   Insulated boxcars have plugdoors and resemble reefers in appearance are "XI" but not all (probably most) plugdoor boxcars cars are not insulated. 

 

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Posted by ericsp on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 10:23 PM

BRAKIE
 
jeffhergert
They use a basic AAR Mechanical code designation for this reporting. Looking at the codes listed for box cars, I think they group mechanical refrigerator cars in the box car group. Jeff

 

Yes,Reefers are included but,as you may know there are far more boxcars then reefers.

As a side note should you visit Fostoria you will see a reefer train from California. Some times it has U.P power.

 
If you are referring to the Railex trains, the last I heard they were combining the WA and CA trains at Green River, WY.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 12:16 PM

jeffhergert
They use a basic AAR Mechanical code designation for this reporting. Looking at the codes listed for box cars, I think they group mechanical refrigerator cars in the box car group. Jeff

Yes,Reefers are included but,as you may know there are far more boxcars then reefers.

As a side note should you visit Fostoria you will see a reefer train from California. Some times it has U.P power.

Larry

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Summerset Ry.


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Posted by NYBW-John on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 11:25 AM

A branchline runs through my little burg of Utica, OH on the way to the grain elevators in Mt. Vernon. A daily train generally consists of 8-10 boxcars loaded with grain. Originally a B&O branch that extended all the way to northern Ohio, more recently it was part of the Ohio Central which was purchased by the Genesee and Wyoming a few years back. They were considering abandoning the entire branch but the state gave them some money to upgrade the track to keep it operational. They figured that little branchline keeps about 500 trucks a year off Ohio Route 13 so the state figured it was worth the expenditure.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:58 AM

http://www.railroadpm.org/

This site (I think the one Brakie used) has the weekly performance of the railroads.  They have a definitions page that applies to this listing only.  It may not be how individual railroads count cars/platforms for their own need. 

They use a basic AAR Mechanical code designation for this reporting.  Looking at the codes listed for box cars, I think they group mechanical refrigerator cars in the box car group.

Jeff

 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:47 AM

dehusman
Maybe. If the trucker shows up at 3am and your loading dock only operates first shift then you paid a lot of money for service you didn't need. Not all commodities need overnight service. Most industries need consistent service, not necessarily the fastest service. If you are serving a warehouse their is going to be dwell at the receiving end in any case.

And you may be stuck with a detention fee-not always but,there are drivers that likes that option. While working as a forklift operator in a warehouse I almost got into a fight with a mouthy driver over that fee even though the bill plainly stated there was no unloading between 11 pm-7am. He got there after the 10:30 pm cut off time.

BTW.We received 6-8 boxcars a week.

Larry

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:31 AM

dehusman
 
BRAKIE
Randy,A 5 unit well car is counted as one car since only the end platforms has numbers while the center platforms does not.

 

Sometimes.  On the UP they count each platform as a car.  That's because the UP tracks which containers are on which platforms.  One of the reasons they do that is for "blowover" speed.  That is the wind speed at which a railroad car will "blow over".  To figure that they need to know how the empty containers are distributed on the cars.  If you count a 5 pack as 1 car then you can't track which box is on which platform.

 

A 5 unit well car has numbers on the end platforms while the middle platforms has a letter at least the ones I've seen on the CSX and NS does..

You can still count it as one car since there is couplers on the end platforms while the middle platforms has a drawl bar. Maybe its a railroad specific thing?

All railroads track the container/trailers by their number and the number of the platform they are loaded on..This keeps the shippers/receivers happy especially UPS..

 

Larry

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:22 AM

NHTX
The question to ask is, what happened to the industries that once shipped via boxcar.

Back in the 1900's a 20 car boxcar was lucky if it carried 10 tons of freight.  That was because there were no trucks.  Undoubtedly, the smaller and more time sensitive shipments have gone to intermodal or turck.  But there still are the shipments that make more sense in a boxcar.  Heavy or large quantity shipments to a central or large manufacturing facility are still the bread and butter of boxcars.  Paper, auto parts, ingots, heavy palletized shipments all still go by boxcar. 

Most of todays just-in-time operations depend on a reliable, constant stream of freight. If a trucker rolls into town with your shipment, he wants to get it to your door as soon as possible, be it 3PM or 3AM. If your shipment is in a boxcar, and there is a yard nearby, it still may take up to 24 hours for it to get to your door-if you still have a siding!

Maybe.  If the trucker shows up at 3am and your loading dock only operates first shift then you paid a lot of money for service you didn't need.  Not all commodities need overnight service.  Most industries need consistent service, not necessarily the fastest service.  If you are serving a warehouse their is going to be dwell at the recieving end in any case.

Another big driver of containerization is globalization.  Since an intermodal container can easily be shipped overseas it is more seamless than boxcars.  That doesn't necessarily mean its more efficient from a space or square footage basis.

For example the UP offers a service for Asian plastic pellet consumers where they can have their plastic sent to Dallas (from Gulf Coast producers) where it is palletized and loaded into containers (Dallas has a lot of excess containers) and put on intermodal trains directly to the docks on the West Coast.  Its not a boxcar move, but it is an example of how global shipping has impacted the boxcar.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:08 AM

BRAKIE
Randy,A 5 unit well car is counted as one car since only the end platforms has numbers while the center platforms does not.

Sometimes.  On the UP they count each platform as a car.  That's because the UP tracks which containers are on which platforms.  One of the reasons they do that is for "blowover" speed.  That is the wind speed at which a railroad car will "blow over".  To figure that they need to know how the empty containers are distributed on the cars.  If you count a 5 pack as 1 car then you can't track which box is on which platform.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, March 29, 2017 6:49 AM

NHTX
Boxcars are out there but they are definitely in the shadow of the double stack container train. Anyone remember the old piggyback trailer trains?

The railroads weekly performance report tells a different story if one would care to check.. I still see piggyback cars on NS but,those seem to be getting fewer each year..

Larry

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Posted by NHTX on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:01 PM

   The question to ask is, what happened to the industries that once shipped via boxcar.  The boxcar has gone the way of the caboose, interlocking tower, agency station, coaling tower and water plug, because the most of the industry that relied on it no longer exists in America.  Most boxcar traffic today moves between shippers whom are able to generate and warehouse large volumes of cargo that is not time sensitive, cumbersome, and of lower value versus weight.  Think of a paper mill.  As stated elsewhere in this post, most shippers today try to eliminate the warehousing portion of the equation because storing inventory costs money.  Most of todays just-in-time operations depend on a reliable, constant stream of freight.  If a trucker rolls into town with your shipment, he wants to get it to your door as soon as possible, be it 3PM or 3AM.  If your shipment is in a boxcar, and there is a yard nearby, it still may take up to 24 hours for it to get to your door-if you still have a siding!   Railroading has become more and more like a conveyor belt to stay competitive.  Just consider, in addition to the unit coal and grain trains we are so familiar with, we now have unit ethanol, and crude oil trains, which all move from one shipper , to one receiver, which is just what the railroads want.  Boxcars are out there but they are definitely in the shadow of the double stack container train.  Anyone remember the old piggyback trailer trains?                                                                             

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:31 PM

ericsp

 

 
BRAKIE
 
ericsp
This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch

 

This may be a clue.

UP handled 22,431 boxcars week ending 3/10/17.. That's a lot of boxcars for  one week. UP handled 14,445 intermodal during the same week.

That facts and figures is available if one wishes to check that link I posted in my first reply or you can guess the number and type of cars being handled.

 

 

 

It does not tell why anything is shipped the way it is shipped or have any information about the customers.

 

I think those car numbers are cars on line.  I don't think they differentiate between loads or empties.   

 http://www.railroadpm.org/Performance%20Reports/UP.aspx

Usually when railroads report car loadings, they do so by freight category not by car type.  Intermodal is by total units.   

Jeff

 

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Posted by NittanyLion on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:38 PM

To be fair, you can't make a one to one comparison of boxcars moved to intermodal moves.  A single well has more cubic feet of capacity than a typical boxcar (although you can't calculate how much is being used per movement, but that's also true of the boxcar) and a single "car" for intermodal could be ten 53' containers moving.

However, the basic premise stands: there's boxcars everywhere.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 5:29 PM

I have a full subscription at rail fan cam site,  so I know what Larry is talking about.  I watch trains through Nebraska, to WV., and they keep adding more.  Plenty of everything, including box cars.

Mike.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:51 PM

 I get mostly autoracks and intermodal. With the occasional tank train, and thrown in for good measure a mixed train with some boxcars.

 All you can say about that is it's representative of the particular line I sit along, which leads directly to Oak Island and the container ports in Bayonne and Jersey City. As you move west and that traffice gets split up to myriad destinations, the ratio of other car types will go up. What I see in my neighborhood doesn't say boo about what the total carloadings for NS are.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 2:02 PM

riogrande5761
As others have noted, most of the freight formerly shipped in box cars back in the 1970's and 1980's are now using intermodal boxes/containers which can go via ship/truck/rail. Welcome to the modern age!

Please spend a day at Fostoria railfaning and a day at Bellevue..You will see the big picture.

Also why not check the site I link to and see how few intermodal cars are being handled? You will also learn the only two railroads that handles more intermodal then boxcars is BNSF and KCS.

Of course railfans always did like second guessing what railroads are doing.

Larry

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 10:34 AM

joecatch

I have been watching the Rochelle web cam and local trains here in NYS and notice mixed frieght trains have very few box cars any more compared to hoppers and tank cars. Surely not everything can be shipped in a hopper or tank car. I remember seeing a lot more box cars in the 1970s and 1980s. What happen to them?

As others have noted, most of the freight formerly shipped in box cars back in the 1970's and 1980's are now using intermodal boxes/containers which can go via ship/truck/rail.  Welcome to the modern age!

If you prefer traditional trains with traditional freight cars, then maybe you might want to back date and model a period when box cars were standard.  That's one of a number of reasons whey I prefer modeling the 1970's thru early 1980's.

/problem solved

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:12 AM

rrinker
Just curious, when they count the intermodals, are they counting containers, individual cars regardless of how many containers are on each one, or do they count those 5 pack cars as 1 car or 5 seeing as how they are permanently connected.

Randy,A 5 unit well car is counted as one car since only the end platforms has numbers while the center platforms does not.

Railroads don't count the containers since a intermodal train could be all empty platforms being returned to where they are needed or hauling single contrainers instead of double stacked..It could be a combination of both single and double stacked. Needless to say the containers could be empties being returned to the ports.

Larry

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:07 AM

BRAKIE
 
ericsp
This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch

 

This may be a clue.

UP handled 22,431 boxcars week ending 3/10/17.. That's a lot of boxcars for  one week. UP handled 14,445 intermodal during the same week.

That facts and figures is available if one wishes to check that link I posted in my first reply or you can guess the number and type of cars being handled.

 

 

 Just curious, when they count the intermodals, are they counting containers, individual cars regardless of how many containers are on each one, or do they count those 5 pack cars as 1 car or 5 seeing as how they are permanently connected.

                              --Randy


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Posted by carknocker1 on Monday, March 27, 2017 8:35 PM

Come down to Mobile Alabama we see strings of box cars on the Csx , Cn, Ns , Agr and the Tasd every day 

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Posted by challenger3980 on Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:03 PM

SeeYou190

Time is money. Boxcars take along time to load and unload. There are safety concerns with boxcars also with workers inside of them.

.

There was once a time when railroads hated any car that could only haul specific commodities. Those days are gone. The boxcar will soon be an unusual sight.

.

-Kevin

.

 

 

 What would the "Safety Concerns" be having workers inside of boxcars?

If it didn't move in a boxcar, it had to move in a truck, pretty much any "Safety Concerns" of being in a box car would apply to being in a truck, except the truck is a smaller more confined space, and forklift exhaust would be a larger, pretty much non-issue.

Doug

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Posted by challenger3980 on Sunday, March 26, 2017 7:57 PM

WAAAAY out West, here in Portland, OR. I see Plenty of Boxcrs in manifest freights, North, South and East of Portland, there's no shortage of them in trains around here.

Doug

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, March 26, 2017 7:55 PM

ericsp
It does not tell why anything is shipped the way it is shipped or have any information about the customers.

Nope,there's no need to..All the railroad is required to do is report the type and number of cars handle,average track speed and terminal dwell time. This goes to the AAR.

If you check various railroad web sites-be sure to include short lines you can get the general idea what is in those boxcars.

Another example is the NS safety train will visit 17 cities. I suspect the first responder unit will lead the consist.

Larry

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Posted by NittanyLion on Sunday, March 26, 2017 7:15 PM

Let's go on a little trip!  We're going to take the Capitol Limited from Washington DC to Cumberland MD.

Leaving DC, there's not a yard until Brunswick MD.  https://binged.it/2mFgAta  There's some boxcars in what looks like a local. Lots of hoppers and stone though.

This industry support yard in Martinsburg seems to be exclusively boxcars. https://binged.it/2mF6aKg

Now we've got to the monster yard at Cumberland.  https://binged.it/2okYBEF A few southbounds waiting to get out on the main are infested with boxcars. Over the hump and we've got plenty of boxcars https://binged.it/2mFhrKy Plenty more as we move through the yard https://binged.it/2mFayst 

Plenty of boxcars out there in the world, if you look at places that aren't intermodal terminals.

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Posted by jjdamnit on Sunday, March 26, 2017 5:01 PM

Hello all,

On my last visit to Long Beach, California; where I grew up, I was railfanning at the port and noticed there were indeed no boxcars!

All the "freight" leaving the port was in intermodal containers.

All the incoming traffic was empty well cars, destine for dock-side cranes.

There were tankers and hopper mixed in the trains but no boxcars.

Wilmington, California, is a major refining area and there were several trains that were comprised of only tankers.

As has been written I suspect that the intermodal containers; an evolution of the piggy-back loads, have superseded the venerable boxcar. 

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, March 26, 2017 4:57 PM

ericsp

 

 
tstage

My guess would be that more things are going by intermodal (shipping) containers, where trucks pickup them up or drop them off directly.  This cuts down on packing and repacking the semi-trailers.

 

 

This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch.

 

I see a lot of places that have been repurposed and are now light industrial type companies.  They don't ship/receive a full trailer load, let alone a box car load anymore.  I also see vacant lots and decaying factory buildings that used to have going concerns that shipped by rail.  They don't ship/receive anything.  I also see places that still exist and ship/receive enough to use a box car, but don't.  Some of that business may now be intermodal, but most isn't.  They left because of poor service and/or the convenience of trucks.  Most freight moves under 500 miles.  The big railroads, especially the western ones, are thinking 750 or more miles.    

There are still a lot of box cars left, but it's not like it used to be.

Jeff  

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Posted by ericsp on Sunday, March 26, 2017 4:52 PM

BRAKIE
 
ericsp
This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch

 

This may be a clue.

UP handled 22,431 boxcars week ending 3/10/17.. That's a lot of boxcars for  one week. UP handled 14,445 intermodal during the same week.

That facts and figures is available if one wishes to check that link I posted in my first reply or you can guess the number and type of cars being handled.

 

 

It does not tell why anything is shipped the way it is shipped or have any information about the customers.

"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)

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