I have been watching the Rochelle web cam and local trains here in NYS and notice mixed frieght trains have very few box cars any more compared to hoppers and tank cars. Surely not everything can be shipped in a hopper or tank car. I remember seeing a lot more box cars in the 1970s and 1980s. What happen to them?
Joe,
My guess would be that more things are going by intermodal (shipping) containers, where trucks pickup them up or drop them off directly. This cuts down on packing and repacking the semi-trailers. From observation CSX has been doing this at their Collinwood yard in Cleveland (OH) for years. Trucks were always going into and out of the yard along the E. 152nd Street entrance.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I still see intermodal containers on flat cars but you're correct, few box cars here in the NE.
Gary
There still there, doing what they always have done, just a few less now, than earlier times, for reasons that Tom accuately described in his reply.
I watch Railstream Cams, and box cars are alive and well. In my area I railfan the CN, WSOR, and CP, and you still see many box cars. Coming out of Waukesha, WI., I stopped for a departing WSOR train, a long one, with many, many box cars.
On the CN, you still see a lot of WC box cars. On the NS and CSX, you see lots of spine cars with trailers, which, I guess, replaces a lot of box cars. Why load and reload, when you can just set the trailer on a spine car.
Yes, unit tank, hopper, and container trains make up the bulk of long haul trains. I amazed at how unit trains of auto racks have increased. Years ago, railroads had them on storage tracks, all over the country. I know down in Janesville, WI., the UP had just about every unused siding and spur tracks filled with them.
The times have, and always will, change.
Mike.
My You Tube
The April 2016 issue of Trains magazine had a good article on just this topic: boxcars are being retired (mandatory due to age) at a much faster pace than they are being built, in spite of there being a continued role and demand for them. That surplus of boxcars due to the boom and bust cycle in the incentive per diem craze -- those are now old cars.
Dave Nelson
As already mentioned, often the modern "boxcar" is the container. Some goods also now ship in other types of car, such as lumber which mostly uses centerbeam cars.
dknelson The April 2016 issue of Trains magazine had a good article on just this topic: boxcars are being retired (mandatory due to age) at a much faster pace than they are being built, in spite of there being a continued role and demand for them. That surplus of boxcars due to the boom and bust cycle in the incentive per diem craze -- those are now old cars. Dave Nelson
And like the IPD era leasers are filling the boxcax needs. GATX has a fleet now. It seems the freight car leasing companies might be the future of freight cars.
For the record..
NS handle 14,975 boxcars week ending 3/10/17
CSX handled 17,338 boxcars week ending 3/10/17
BNSF handled 12,338 week ending 3/10/17
UP handled 22,431 week ending 3/10/17
http://www.railroadpm.org/Performance%20Reports/NS.aspx
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
It's a regional thing.
When I'm visiting family in Pittsburgh, nary a boxcar in sight, but plenty of coil cars and autoracks. Here in Alexandria VA, no autoracks ever and almost solid trains of boxcars.
Time is money. Boxcars take along time to load and unload. There are safety concerns with boxcars also with workers inside of them.
.
There was once a time when railroads hated any car that could only haul specific commodities. Those days are gone. The boxcar will soon be an unusual sight.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190Time is money. Boxcars take along time to load and unload. There are safety concerns with boxcars also with workers inside of them.
Kevin,Time may be money but,that boxcar equals 2 1/2 53 foot trailers.Shipping costs is money.
Concerns unloading boxcars? Really? What concerns? Before my near fatal heart attack in '05 my job was a forklift operator at a warehouse..Guess how long it takes to unload a boxcar with a lift-around 30 minutes if the operator is worth his salt. A 53' trailer or any size of container is closed in as well.
Back in the early 60s Train's columnist John G. Kneiling "The Professional Iconoclast" stated boxcars would completely disappear by the year 2000.
There is still a need for boxcars as the weekly performance report I posted shows.
Our biggest health concern was sucking in black dust and propane fumes on a daily bases especially in the winter when every door that wasn't needed was closed.
BRAKIEOur biggest health concern was sucking in black dust and propane fumes on a daily bases especially in the winter when every door that wasn't needed was closed.
Well, I guess that is one.
Although down here in South Florida we would not even shut the doors in winter time!
Kevin, Gotta hand it to "The Professional Iconoclast" he did get his intermodal perdiction as "A means of gaining traffic now lost to trucks back" and his perdiction about "the railroads must cut the size of crews".
tstage My guess would be that more things are going by intermodal (shipping) containers, where trucks pickup them up or drop them off directly. This cuts down on packing and repacking the semi-trailers.
My guess would be that more things are going by intermodal (shipping) containers, where trucks pickup them up or drop them off directly. This cuts down on packing and repacking the semi-trailers.
This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
ericspThis assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch
This may be a clue.
UP handled 22,431 boxcars week ending 3/10/17.. That's a lot of boxcars for one week. UP handled 14,445 intermodal during the same week.
That facts and figures is available if one wishes to check that link I posted in my first reply or you can guess the number and type of cars being handled.
BRAKIE ericsp This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch This may be a clue. UP handled 22,431 boxcars week ending 3/10/17.. That's a lot of boxcars for one week. UP handled 14,445 intermodal during the same week. That facts and figures is available if one wishes to check that link I posted in my first reply or you can guess the number and type of cars being handled.
ericsp This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch
It does not tell why anything is shipped the way it is shipped or have any information about the customers.
ericsp tstage My guess would be that more things are going by intermodal (shipping) containers, where trucks pickup them up or drop them off directly. This cuts down on packing and repacking the semi-trailers. This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch.
I see a lot of places that have been repurposed and are now light industrial type companies. They don't ship/receive a full trailer load, let alone a box car load anymore. I also see vacant lots and decaying factory buildings that used to have going concerns that shipped by rail. They don't ship/receive anything. I also see places that still exist and ship/receive enough to use a box car, but don't. Some of that business may now be intermodal, but most isn't. They left because of poor service and/or the convenience of trucks. Most freight moves under 500 miles. The big railroads, especially the western ones, are thinking 750 or more miles.
There are still a lot of box cars left, but it's not like it used to be.
Jeff
Hello all,
On my last visit to Long Beach, California; where I grew up, I was railfanning at the port and noticed there were indeed no boxcars!
All the "freight" leaving the port was in intermodal containers.
All the incoming traffic was empty well cars, destine for dock-side cranes.
There were tankers and hopper mixed in the trains but no boxcars.
Wilmington, California, is a major refining area and there were several trains that were comprised of only tankers.
As has been written I suspect that the intermodal containers; an evolution of the piggy-back loads, have superseded the venerable boxcar.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Let's go on a little trip! We're going to take the Capitol Limited from Washington DC to Cumberland MD.
Leaving DC, there's not a yard until Brunswick MD. https://binged.it/2mFgAta There's some boxcars in what looks like a local. Lots of hoppers and stone though.
This industry support yard in Martinsburg seems to be exclusively boxcars. https://binged.it/2mF6aKg
Now we've got to the monster yard at Cumberland. https://binged.it/2okYBEF A few southbounds waiting to get out on the main are infested with boxcars. Over the hump and we've got plenty of boxcars https://binged.it/2mFhrKy Plenty more as we move through the yard https://binged.it/2mFayst
Plenty of boxcars out there in the world, if you look at places that aren't intermodal terminals.
ericspIt does not tell why anything is shipped the way it is shipped or have any information about the customers.
Nope,there's no need to..All the railroad is required to do is report the type and number of cars handle,average track speed and terminal dwell time. This goes to the AAR.
If you check various railroad web sites-be sure to include short lines you can get the general idea what is in those boxcars.
Another example is the NS safety train will visit 17 cities. I suspect the first responder unit will lead the consist.
WAAAAY out West, here in Portland, OR. I see Plenty of Boxcrs in manifest freights, North, South and East of Portland, there's no shortage of them in trains around here.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
SeeYou190 Time is money. Boxcars take along time to load and unload. There are safety concerns with boxcars also with workers inside of them. . There was once a time when railroads hated any car that could only haul specific commodities. Those days are gone. The boxcar will soon be an unusual sight. . -Kevin .
What would the "Safety Concerns" be having workers inside of boxcars?
If it didn't move in a boxcar, it had to move in a truck, pretty much any "Safety Concerns" of being in a box car would apply to being in a truck, except the truck is a smaller more confined space, and forklift exhaust would be a larger, pretty much non-issue.
Come down to Mobile Alabama we see strings of box cars on the Csx , Cn, Ns , Agr and the Tasd every day
Just curious, when they count the intermodals, are they counting containers, individual cars regardless of how many containers are on each one, or do they count those 5 pack cars as 1 car or 5 seeing as how they are permanently connected.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerJust curious, when they count the intermodals, are they counting containers, individual cars regardless of how many containers are on each one, or do they count those 5 pack cars as 1 car or 5 seeing as how they are permanently connected.
Randy,A 5 unit well car is counted as one car since only the end platforms has numbers while the center platforms does not.
Railroads don't count the containers since a intermodal train could be all empty platforms being returned to where they are needed or hauling single contrainers instead of double stacked..It could be a combination of both single and double stacked. Needless to say the containers could be empties being returned to the ports.
joecatch I have been watching the Rochelle web cam and local trains here in NYS and notice mixed frieght trains have very few box cars any more compared to hoppers and tank cars. Surely not everything can be shipped in a hopper or tank car. I remember seeing a lot more box cars in the 1970s and 1980s. What happen to them?
As others have noted, most of the freight formerly shipped in box cars back in the 1970's and 1980's are now using intermodal boxes/containers which can go via ship/truck/rail. Welcome to the modern age!
If you prefer traditional trains with traditional freight cars, then maybe you might want to back date and model a period when box cars were standard. That's one of a number of reasons whey I prefer modeling the 1970's thru early 1980's.
/problem solved
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761As others have noted, most of the freight formerly shipped in box cars back in the 1970's and 1980's are now using intermodal boxes/containers which can go via ship/truck/rail. Welcome to the modern age!
Please spend a day at Fostoria railfaning and a day at Bellevue..You will see the big picture.
Also why not check the site I link to and see how few intermodal cars are being handled? You will also learn the only two railroads that handles more intermodal then boxcars is BNSF and KCS.
Of course railfans always did like second guessing what railroads are doing.
I get mostly autoracks and intermodal. With the occasional tank train, and thrown in for good measure a mixed train with some boxcars.
All you can say about that is it's representative of the particular line I sit along, which leads directly to Oak Island and the container ports in Bayonne and Jersey City. As you move west and that traffice gets split up to myriad destinations, the ratio of other car types will go up. What I see in my neighborhood doesn't say boo about what the total carloadings for NS are.
I have a full subscription at rail fan cam site, so I know what Larry is talking about. I watch trains through Nebraska, to WV., and they keep adding more. Plenty of everything, including box cars.
To be fair, you can't make a one to one comparison of boxcars moved to intermodal moves. A single well has more cubic feet of capacity than a typical boxcar (although you can't calculate how much is being used per movement, but that's also true of the boxcar) and a single "car" for intermodal could be ten 53' containers moving.
However, the basic premise stands: there's boxcars everywhere.
ericsp BRAKIE ericsp This assumes the shipper or receiver do not have rail service. I wonder how many shippers have switched to containers or trailers for receivers that have rail service due to poor rail service or railroads encouraging them to switch This may be a clue. UP handled 22,431 boxcars week ending 3/10/17.. That's a lot of boxcars for one week. UP handled 14,445 intermodal during the same week. That facts and figures is available if one wishes to check that link I posted in my first reply or you can guess the number and type of cars being handled. It does not tell why anything is shipped the way it is shipped or have any information about the customers.
I think those car numbers are cars on line. I don't think they differentiate between loads or empties.
http://www.railroadpm.org/Performance%20Reports/UP.aspx
Usually when railroads report car loadings, they do so by freight category not by car type. Intermodal is by total units.