Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Canadian National Pacifics used for hauling freight

4090 views
15 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
  • 868 posts
Canadian National Pacifics used for hauling freight
Posted by Guy Papillon on Friday, August 7, 2015 8:50 AM

I understand that, with their large drivers, the Pacifics (4-6-2) were primarily used for passenger trains. Did the CN also used them for hauling freight in the 50's?

I saw a photo of a Pacific used as a helper on a freight train but none as   the primary mover.

 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Lancaster, PA
  • 310 posts
Posted by RDG Casey on Saturday, August 8, 2015 6:50 AM

It's very probable that the pacifics were used in freight. I'm not positive on the CN but I do know there is video of CP 2317 on freight duties toward the end of it's CP career before ending up at Steamtown. At the very least there are instances on most railroads of passenger engines being used in freight in either a shake down run after rebuild or just being power short. Engines also get replaced from higher profile jobs and demoted to branch service, frieght, or work trains (where ever useful) before retirement.

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Saturday, August 8, 2015 7:30 AM
Hi. There is a picture in Kevin Holland's book (CN Steam in color, vol 1) showing a Pacific pulling freight. I strongly recommend these books for CN and CP modellers, they are extremely useful.

Simon
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Monday, August 10, 2015 10:41 AM

Especially late in the steam era, it wasn't unusual to see 'passenger' steam engines running out their last days on freight. On the flipside, IIRC the CN 2-8-2 at Steamtown was regularly used on passenger train locals running to - from Port Arthur / Ft. William Ontario (today's Thunder Bay).

Stix
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 573 posts
Posted by pajrr on Monday, August 10, 2015 12:21 PM

The Erie Railroad used Pacifics on branchlines for freight service on weekends when they were not needed for commuter service.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Northfield Center TWP, OH
  • 2,538 posts
Posted by dti406 on Monday, August 10, 2015 1:21 PM

On the NYC the K-11 Class Pacifics with 70" Drivers were almost exclusively used in Freight Service.

Also the ACL Pacifics were used in Fast Freight (read pershible fruit) service from Florida to the Northeast.

Rick J

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • 3,006 posts
Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, August 10, 2015 4:22 PM

The RF&P was very unusual in that they never owned a 2-8-0 nor a 2-8-2. Freight was handled by 4-6-0's, 4-6-2's, 4-8-2's, and 4-8-4's.  The 2-wheel lead trucks found on the road's WWII era 2-8-4's were an aberration.  RF&P wanted more 4-8-4's, but the War Production Board had a different opinion.

Tom

  • Member since
    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
  • 6,251 posts
Posted by "JaBear" on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 3:45 AM
Gidday Guy, I have been known to be wrong on more occasions than I care to admit but notwithstanding Simons reference to a photo, I’d suggest that the Canadian National Pacifics were mainly employed in their designed role as passenger locomotives to the end of steam.
Looking at the scrapping dates it would appear that there more than enough CN 4-8-4s to carry out the freight duties till they were replaced by diesels.
As an aside it would appear that the CP designed its Pacifics as Mixed Traffic engines and as such, while lacking in photos (on the net at least), there is plenty of evidence that they were used in freight and even snow plough service till the end.
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 5:11 AM

It should be remembered that most CN Pacifics had been built for predecessor roads and were not of a consistent design.

They fell into two groups, class J with 69" driving wheels and class K with 72" driving wheels. Those with 69" xdrivers would be considered as mixed traffic types...

check out:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_steam2/pacific.htm

There are a number of photos with a box car behind the loco but these could be for express or be part of a mixed train. A complete mixed train is illustrated. Theb photos generally date from the 1930s to the 1950s.

The CPR built Pacifics in pairs with either 75" or 70" driving wheels...

The older lighter Pacifics were classes G-1 and G-2

The heavier type were classes G-3 and G-4.

A class G-5 built in the 1940s was a modernised G-2 intended for both freight and passenger on lighter track.

CPR also had two typres of Mikado, P-1 and P-2 that shared the boilers with the G-1 and G-3 respectively.

In particular, the smaller wheeled G-4s were based in British Columbia for passenger service on heavy grades. 

M636C

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • 88 posts
Posted by rws1225 on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 7:57 AM

CN subsidiary GTW in Michigan used J class light pacifics on branch line mixed trains, there are a lot of photos of 4-6-2 powered trains on the Caseville branch.

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • 2,123 posts
Posted by CNCharlie on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 9:34 AM

Guy,

I have the complete set of Ian Wilson's books on CN steam in southern Ontario. There are many photos of Pacifics, especially the light ones, used on branchline freight in the '50s.  

CN Charlie

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:13 PM

M636C
....A class G-5 built in the 1940s was a modernised G-2 intended for both freight and passenger on lighter track.....

I recently saw video of two G5s being transported from the Virginia Central to Winnipeg, Manitoba.  I'm not sure of what's planned for them, but both appear to be in relatively good condition. 
There's apparently more info (for Trains subscribers only) to be found here:

former-canadian-pacific-4-6-2s-to-move-to-winnipeg-from-virginia


Wayne

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • 3,006 posts
Posted by ACY Tom on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 12:29 PM

There's a current item on the Classic Trains site under The Way it Was.  The title is Green Beans and Trains.  The author describes his experiences in Ohio, picking beans beside the Erie while an Erie K-4 4-6-2 worked the local freight.

Tom

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • 499 posts
Posted by De Luxe on Sunday, August 23, 2015 1:07 PM

Not really an answer to this topic, but also not offtopic:

I heard a few times that CN used their T-2a 2-10-2´s (which had more traction force than CP´s Selkirks and were the strongest steamers in Canada by the way) also in passenger service in the Rocky Mountains in British Columbia. Was that regularily or occasionally?

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • 2,314 posts
Posted by don7 on Monday, February 8, 2016 3:34 AM

Good question, I searched a number of records of the CNR 2-10-2's and found this site.

Old Time Trains

Try searching, http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/p/2785894/reply.aspx

It appears that the CNR were operated between Toronto and the Maritimes only.

CNR had a lot of 2-8-4 and 4-8-4 locomotives and many of them worked the western provinces. These would most likely be your Rocky Mountain haulers

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_steam2/santa_fe.htm

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Monday, February 8, 2016 11:15 AM

Haven't had a close read, only a look at this page, but it's good for another cup of coffee.

http://yourrailwaypictures.com/CNRsteamengines/

 

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!