Railfanning used to be a 'good' word in my railroad vocabulary. Key word = used to be.
Personally i dont railfan anymore because locos all look the same now, trains are mostly bulk thru trains, and the #1 reason i find it sickining, and very disgusting is all the "poor mans artwork" scrawled all over trains these days. Typical low mentallity humans ruining it for railfans!
My personal reasons aside, in a post 9/11 world, things have changed drastically. Even before 9/11, insurance companies had it in for railfans way before. Thus the demise of steam programs and more to wit... excursion services.
To go one better, railroads themselves have it in for us. I highly doubt there is a railroad out there with an executive officer being a railfan at heart. Might be one or two but thats it! All are in it for the $$$. Bar NONE!
Railfans have yet to be discovered as the powerful entity they are. Instead of removing us from the scene it would be in the railroads best interest to utilize us.
We could be the eyes and ears they cant afford to have (were everywhere at all times! they arent). We certainly have every intent to be postive towards the railroads. And i am sure every railfan out there would like to do something or be part of the railroad infrastructure as a benefit.
Consider a national organization. No different than the NMRA or even MR's own subscription list. Soley composed of registered railfans. A national database of railfans that the railroads could tap to use to their benefit.
Much like LEO calls in and checks your ID when pulled over, the very same call could be made to the database. If your registered, and active, the call would come back clear. If not, THEN LEO or the RailLEO could remove you. No hassle, no fuss, no muss.
To be in this registry, a small fee could be levied to cover the cost of admin and railfan ID's. A small safety class and class in general rail operations would be required. Also, the registered railfan be required to wear prominant blaze orange jacket with "Railfan" emblazened on it. I see UP posting videos where they have been educating local fire departments. Why not railfans? Most all fire depts are volunteer, so are railfans!
As to why the railroads would benefit would be this: we get safety training, we are properly marked, they know who were are and why we are there, plus.... the added eyes and ears to help protect them while doing their jobs. Free to them, a small cost to us. We get our pictures, they get to keep their safe environment. Everyones happy. Heck, as registered railfans we can help the railLeos pick out non railfan tresspassers/troublemakers.
The education in safety should be no skin off the railroads collective noses. Especially since they have touted since day one...." safety first!" What problem is there in educating the general public?
In closing, an example of how a railfan can be of the greatest benefit to railroads..... first hand.
Summer days eve, traffic is normal at a local grade crossing. Three tracks gaurded by 'new' gates and lights. Amtrak southbound leaving the station 2 miles north of crossing, past a curve. As i approached the crossing, i knew the train was due in seconds. A railfan would know this, typical human wouldnt.
Problem: the crossing protection has failed. Idiots abound! And are crossing the tracks around the gates. Even as the Amtrak is blowing. This is an industrial area, ofcourse a semi or two was there. Imagine one trying to weave around the gates. I didnt have to as i was seeing it unfold before me. Geees what stupidity! I had to lift one gate for one truck to get off the crossing without taking the gate down. Like to take that driver to the woodshed!!!
Railfans? definately not! Typical stupid humans? oh most definately. So what would a railfan do in this instance, if one was there?
Fortunately for Amtrak, CSX, and the population at large, a railfan WAS there. First step, take control of the crossing and block it! Next - call the CSX Emer number stickered to the gate pole. Even though i gave the CSX security officer on the other end of the line (in florida ofcourse, 800 miles away [how stupid is that!]) all the info they needed (crossing number, street name, city name, mile marker number and the fact an Amtrak southbound was approaching) her response was to "Call your local LEO." WHAT???????? (NO you blooming idiot! Contact the train crew and warn them! IMMEDIATELY!!)
Ok, step two failed because the CSX employee was an uneducated, non safety minded dolt! Obviously just there for a paycheck (railfans do it for free!)! Well, do what they said anyways, call LEO. LEO called. Amazingly, one happened to be sitting in the now backed up traffic. Refusing to see what was happening ten cars ahead of him.
Now that he was alerted by radio, he came to the crossing. Oh what a help he was. Sure his presence stopped more folks from crossing against the gates. Now the general public was safe. What of the train? Now insight and approaching, gaining speed.
Ofcourse cell in one hand to do the calling, an experienced Railfan such as myself also knew to grab flags out of my trunk. Waving yellow over red (i didnt have two red flags) standing to the side of tracks, just before the crossing ( no time to walk ahead the proper distance), i can say beyond a doubt the railcrew saw me. Proof being the sudden loss of sound from that throaty GE and the reconizable hiss of air brakes being applied.
Closer to the crossing a crew member jumped from the cab and came towards me (the one with the flags, not LEO!). Radio blarring with talk. I yelled to the curious crewmember to pass crossing at restricted speed, crossing is compromised. Same time i said that the engineer could be heard on the radio stating "get back on the train - all is clear they have it under control, lets go!".
Did i save lives? Id like to think so. Did I do anything special? Yes. Only in the fact that i had the experience and knowledge to know what to do in this situation. Would a normal human know? NO. Not even the trained LEO standing there doe-eyed knew what to do. And he is trained and sworn to protect the public. Fat lot of good he was! He left the crossing with it still failing.
Did CSX even know what to do? NO! In this day of modern technology enough time was had for CSX to be notified and then inturn notify the railcrew. Did they? NO!
I have no doubt in my mind had a railfan not been there, someone would have died.
Now im not trying to be important here. Not trying to toot my own horn. Im proud of what i did, and know deep down it wasnt just me. ANY railfan could/would do this. Your normal human, LEO, and even the railroads themselves dont have this ability. As proven. Railfans do.
I think its time the world realizes and recognizes our potential. We arent just "foamers" ne'er do gooders, or trespassers. The railroads themselves better soon realize if it wasnt for us, they would be in a lot worse place than they are now.
All we ask is just to be close to them. Not a dang thang wrong with that. Especially since we can offer so much, and at so little of a cost. We ask very little in return.
Until a new age of thinking about Railfans is begun, railfanning will continue into oblivion. Without railfans, there is NO liason between the railroads and the general public. We are a powerful force in the railroad community, and our civilian communities at large. Shame we arent recognized for it.
PM Railfan
OK, let's think things through. Cops do most of their work on public property. Their job is to protect the public, sometimes by being proactive. They're allowed considerable judgment. If they think something's wrong, they'll move to keep someone from doing something stupid, even if it's not strictly against the law. If someone's hanging around a flooded drainage channel on public property and doesn't seem all there, they'll shepherd the person away. Anyone got a problem with that?
Now, railroads are dangerous places. People get killed around them all the time. Even really stupid people will sue if they're injured doing something stupid. Lots of people, not just serious railfans, watch trains. Some have issues, only the least of which is poor judgment. If a guy with kids doesn't seem all there, even a little bit, and might seem not to care if his kids wandered onto railroad property nearby, I'd approve of someone being proactive.
I think one rule of railfanning is to look like you're serious, aware of good safety practices, and know what you're doing. Have a real camera, maybe a scanner, maybe a notebook, look like you know what you're watching. Don't look like you might suddenly do something unpredictable, or will let your kids do the same. I'm not sure, I hate to say it, if waving a cell phone counts as serious here.
I would give police and rail employees the benefit of the doubt. Think about what impression you and your kids are making.
No picture that I could have taken would be able to show CSX in a bad light, even if that had been my objective. The driver of the wrecked pickup truck had gone to the hospital & wasn't there to protest. My actual objective was to show the pictures to the teenaged daughter of a friend of mine. She was learning to drive at the time, and I felt that this would be a graphic way to show the consequences of careless driving in an area with which she was familiar, in her own home town.
Teaching opportunity lost.
Anyway, the fact remains that I was on a public sidewalk, not on RR property; and there is still a Constitution that is supposed to protect me from harassment or unreasonable seizure of my property (the implication was that there would be dire consequences if I persisted). I learned about the Constitution in grammar school, over 50 years ago. I don't know about anybody else, but I haven't forgotten in the intervening years.
Tom
ACY IMHO, many modern railroads and their overzealous police departments have bent over backwards to make us resent, and occasionally despise, them. Local police with an incorrect idea of Constitutionally protected freedoms have often contributed to this. That's one of the many reasons I have no interest in modeling the present day, and very little interest in modern railfanning. Not long ago I was on a public street near the location where a driver stupidly allowed his pickup truck to be hit by a CSX freight train. A CSX official, in the presence of local police, demanded that I put away my phone, with which I was going to take a few pictures. It was apparent that the police were on his side, not mine, so I put away the phone. What were they afraid of? Did they think I was going to break CSX's precious train from a distance of 100 feet? STOOPID! Tom
IMHO, many modern railroads and their overzealous police departments have bent over backwards to make us resent, and occasionally despise, them. Local police with an incorrect idea of Constitutionally protected freedoms have often contributed to this. That's one of the many reasons I have no interest in modeling the present day, and very little interest in modern railfanning. Not long ago I was on a public street near the location where a driver stupidly allowed his pickup truck to be hit by a CSX freight train. A CSX official, in the presence of local police, demanded that I put away my phone, with which I was going to take a few pictures. It was apparent that the police were on his side, not mine, so I put away the phone. What were they afraid of? Did they think I was going to break CSX's precious train from a distance of 100 feet?
STOOPID!
That's not stupid, they just don't want anyone hanging around an accident scene taking pictures. Next time you see a car wreck that you weren't involved with or a direct witness to, stop and try to take pictures and see what happens there.
Always on public property. Only once did I have an issue, and it was I was in the wrong place, wrong time. State PD was looking for someone, and I matched a partial description. Once I cleared the ID question, it was ok. I did volunteer to leave the area for a while, just to avoid further confusion. Once they knew who I was, and why I was there, they were fine with it. My trick, cooperate, and public property only. If you are friendly, nice, and respectful, so are they. And yes, I have talked with local law enforcement more that just this one related above, that was just the only time that could've been a big problem if it went any other way. All times though, that respectful, friendly, honest, cooperative attitude worked wonderfully. They then see you are not an issue, and most of them, if they are thinking about it, will at the very least leave you be, at best, watch so that no one else will harass you. They deal with idiots all day, when you stand out as different, you are treated better than the average person they are forced to deal with. Works for me anyways.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
All the railfaning I do is from locations open to the public and like Randy, I don't have much interest in modern railroading. Mostly it is from the seat of my car along highway 10 between near where I live and the Twin Cities.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I'm not all that in to modern railroading so I don;t really go out on any planned railfanning trips, but several years ago, shortly after the NS/CSX buyout of Conrail, I was with my boys at the Allentown hump yard, there is place to pull off the street across from the hump, and we were standing on the side of the street, NOT on railroad property wtaching cars being shoved over the hump, and a NS worker pulling in to the yard in his pickup stopped by the gate and yelled at us to leave or he was calling the police.
They wonder why people don't care about railroads any more. It's one thing to be on railroad property without permission. Being on public property though, outside and off of railroad property, and being yelled at when clearly I was there with my two small boys, didn't even have a camera, is just ridiculous. He wasn't even nice about it, literally yelled "get out of here before I call the police"
Probably in part this is why I don't bother railfanning, outside of if I get lucky and catch a train at a grade crossing. I've been much closer just by being on various trips and participating in photo runbys. Heck I've been in the cab a couple of times even. ANd having worked around heavy machinery since I was about 13, and workign in industrial plants where you need to always be alert for moving forklifts or cranes (I'm just there to fix the network), I tend to be ultra cautious in those situations - like when everyone is piling off for the runby and walking ON the rail... If I'm on a cab ride for a trip, that usually entails walking the train at some point to get to the head end, and while not required, I always wear my steel toe boots. Non-baggy heavy jeans, even in summer, and non-baggy shirts. Common sense, really - something that appears to be sadly lacking these days, across all age ranges, especially where big heavy moving objects are involved. It is also sad how the "blame anyone but yourself" mentality has ruined it for everyone, they don't dare let you on railroad property even if you ask for permission.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I was in a pretty common railfan area a couple months ago, although it's not just pure railfans who come to watch trains. When I pulled up, a somewhat sketchy looking guy with a carload of kids was already there. Also a cop from the local PD. I thought the guy with kids was kinda sketchy, so apparently did the cop. Guy with kids finally packed them up and drove off to be sketchy someplace else. Cop came over and grilled me, too. He wanted to know more than the usual about why I was there, and his partner was real interested, too. I finally said I was a model railroader, the two relaxed and said have a nice day.
Seems to me that cops may be looking for things other than railfans to hassle. If in the CSX case above, someone was stupid not long before, the cops are going to be on their guard about other guys who might be stupid, too.
Best bet: cooperate.
My last interaction with a (non-railroad) cop was just as it should be.
I was taking pictures from a little used bridge. He drove up and asked what I was up to. We exchanged a few lines, he said "have a nice day" and left.
He was obviously checking me out to see if I was a, uh, problem. I'm sure he doesn't need or want them. The quick exchange pretty much settled his mind on the matter.
He may still have thought it strange that I would be on a bridge in the hot sun waiting to take train pictures, but lots of his interactions are with people who do strange (but not criminal or dangerous) things, so.......
Ed
The wife & I go railfanning almost every weekend, & have done so for the past couple of years. We have never had a problem. In fact, the local police in a couple of spots usually give us a wave as they drive by on patrol, as well as some folks who work at different places near where we park. The trick, well, there isn't one except not to trespass on RR property. Nor do we litter where we are, always making sure we leave with all our trash. Most train crews give us a wave or a toot, sometimes turning on the bell in case we might be shooting a video. And we really appreciate that. When we go somewhere new, we look for local RR museums or RR parks because we have found they are usually a good place to railfan. I think the key is using a little common sense.
Pittsburgh, PA
I gave up on railfanning years ago. Here in northern Nevada there are lots of legal and safe places to railfan...particularly with the wide open terrain we have. I think more than anything, it's the lack of interesting things to see. I travel I80 to Reno to go to work. This parallels the ex-SP overland route the entire distance of my I80 drive...about 35 miles. I see trains...OFTEN. At a glance and even pacing, I am only able to tell an EMD from a GE...nothing else. I have even outrun and met them at the back parking lot of an area casino and still couldn't make a positive ID beyond EMD or GE. For a long time I carried a camera all the time in the car...no more. The only railfanning that interests me (to go out of my way for) anymore, is to go to the FRRS in Portola CA and be around the cantankerous varieties of power from the 50's, 60's, and 70's. One more thing...digital camera gear. I've been using digital equipment since 2003 and just don't care for it's charcteristics, I only do very menial things with it. No where to get film done around here anymore.
Anyway, I still at times get into a good 65-70 mph pace, but no more waiting near the tracks with a camera.
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
There are two questions in this thread. One is whether it's harder to find good railfan or photo locations in general (but presumably from public property and not trespassing). The other is variouis problems connected with railfanning as it relates to law enforcement or rail employees.
The answer to the first question is that, since retail, carload railroading is declining in comparison to unit trains and intermodal, there are fewer branch lines and industrial areas where you can easily kibitz what's going on. That's a fact of life. By the same token, with operations concentrating in major yards, there's additional security. Fact of life. I live in Los Angeles and used to be able to railfan branches and yards that are now gone. I have to drive farther and do more research. Fact of life, part of the challenge.
If you're hassled by law enforcement, rightly or wrongly, I don't see the point of not cooperating. If they ask you to leave, leave. Better to lose a couple of photos than be handcuffed and booked. Non issue.
I've never had a problem railfanning, either here in Canada, or in the U.S., where I do most of my train watching, but I don't trespass on railroad property, and especially not on the right-of-way.I worked in a steel plant where there was constant heavy rail traffic, so I'm well aware of the safety issues around trains. When in the States, I'm usually accompanied by a good friend who is a retired railroader, and he not only knows many good locations, but also many of the railroad workers whom we meet, or they at least have friends and acquaintances in common. Another friend, who sometimes joins us, is a retired railcop, expanding even more our possibilities. This, coupled with the fact that we're safety conscious and respectful of the rules, has garnered results well beyond what I ever could have expected on my own - cab rides, shop tours, and access to industries not generally available to the average fan.The best part, though, are the friendships made through our common interest, and it's always a joy to go railfanning, even on those days when the trains are few and far between.
Wayne
I have always done my railfan thing from public roads (walking paths) and have still encountered officious twits, most not in uniform.
When I show ID, they back off. The ID is a DD2(Ret) and the rank reads Master Sergeant.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - from my own field notes and photos)
Oh yea! Treaspassing is a huge deal now. You used to get away with alot roaming around, watching trains, railroad activity, etc., as long as you stayed out of the way, it was not a problem. Some of my first days railfanning the newly started WC, I could even stop at the station in Burlington, WI and get permission, just told to stay out of the way, and no climbing on cars, and of course, "watch for moving trains" !
Now your pretty much limited to crossings, or adjacent properties, such as public hunting and fishing areas that border rail road property.
Most of the class I's have a zero tolerance for trespassing.
Mike.
My You Tube
Yes! Three occasions.
NS at MG tower I was clearly in the wrong, trespassing, and when NS Police asked me to leave... I (we) left.
In 2003 I rode the Amtrak California Zephyr from Chicago to Sacramento. Stepped off my car in Denver with a camera and within minutes two city police told me to put the camera away or it would be confiscated.
But you don't understand, I told them. I'm a ticket holder, a tourist, just stepped off the train to take a few snapshots. They stepped in closer. Their body language was telling me to back off. I said, look at all those people up there, (I was outside the Sightseer Lounge) they have cameras and they ARE taking pictures!
We don't care about them, we are telling YOU to put away your camera or lose it!
Haven't been back to Denver since! I showed them!
Another time was a similar situation at Washington Union Station. Amtrak Police. I was travelling as an escort, or rider, on two private cars moving from Charlotte to Cincinnati and had a one day layover in D. C.
Again, standing on the platform next to the cars I was video taping comings and goings near tower K when an Amtrak peace officer approached me and told me to stop taking pictures. "These are post 911 rules" I didn't see a sign saying photography is prohibited, I countered. We don't have to put up any signs, was the reply.
I had to go through the whole photo ID check, she came on the cars and looked through the transportation papers (to be sure we didn't sneak two 85 foot Pullmans in there overnight) and I had to call the car owner to verify that I was indeed the caretaker of these cars.
Again I asked "what would happen if I were to take pictures out the end door or through the windows?" Oh, I can't stop you from doing that, she replied.
I read in the press that a little more leniency has been extended by Amtrak recently but for me it has taken all the fun away.
I will say that in most places no one has bothered me and I stay in public areas or on sidewalks and parking lots.
Spent all day in Sacramento walking around the station and on the platforms and all I got was friendly waves from crew members. So those three instances I cite are certainly the exception.
Have fun! (if you're allowed) Ed
Used to be I could get up close in a yard, watch the train movements and get some good photos.
Same on various mainlines.
Nowadays, thanks to the terrorists, you have to be carefull when you are watching trains, because you become suspect
anyone else have the same problem?