Wishful thinking at best..BNSF can not patrol every mile of track and even if the crews reports trespassers they will be long gone before any action can be taken.City police can not babyset private property since most police is to busy attending other duties..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hello All,
I saw this posted on the Friends Of BNSF website.
It's a few years old but I though it appropriate for this post.
Hope this helps:
The BNSF Railway Co. is clamping down on people trespassing on its property, and that includes anywhere the company has tracks.
“We are going to be aggressively enforcing our no trespassing policy,” BNSF spokesman Gus Melonas, of Seattle, told The Montana Standard on Friday.
The Butte rail yard has its own security personnel, and Butte police will be asked to help enforce the no trespassing policy, Melonas said. Sheriff John Walsh could not be reached for comment on Friday.
Read the full story on the Montana Standard website.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
ACY A CSX official, in the presence of local police, demanded that I put away my phone, with which I was going to take a few pictures. It was apparent that the police were on his side, not mine, so I put away the phone. What were they afraid of?
They are afraid of Freedom of the Press. You and everyone else with a camera or phone is now part of the press because in an instant you can upload it to a news site or you tube. Companies like controlling their own image and their press releases. When you show someone what is happening it makes them upset. Even Burger King has signs on the doors saying you can't video because someone uploaded an employee taking a bath in the kitchen sink.
If a police officer or other government authority tries to take a camera away from you while shooting a news worthy event they are violating your rights. Tell them you are an independent reporter and this story is going to be on CNN in fifteen minutes. Then ask them to spell their name to make sure it appears correctly. You might get beat up but then your lawyer will have a field day and you can get everything on your wish list.
p.s. I railran from a parking lot located in a national forest. I paid for the parking permit to be there so nobody can say I can't be there. The tracks are right next to it. Other wise I just look out the window when I drive because there is a track next to every freeway.
doctorwayne Some time ago, there was a documentary on TVO, the Ontario public television station, about these so-called "artists". One segment showed a number of them showing up at a rail yard (looked like a storage yard more than one being switched) at night in nice-looking cars. I was wondering, as they went to work painting stuff which belonged to someone else, how much they would have appreciated my artwork on their cars when they returned. Many of the people doing this sort of stuff obviously have the money to do it, coupled with an unearned sense of entitlement.The penalties need to be stiffer and, if the evidence is strong enough, the railroads should start suing those who are caught. Wayne
Some time ago, there was a documentary on TVO, the Ontario public television station, about these so-called "artists". One segment showed a number of them showing up at a rail yard (looked like a storage yard more than one being switched) at night in nice-looking cars. I was wondering, as they went to work painting stuff which belonged to someone else, how much they would have appreciated my artwork on their cars when they returned. Many of the people doing this sort of stuff obviously have the money to do it, coupled with an unearned sense of entitlement.The penalties need to be stiffer and, if the evidence is strong enough, the railroads should start suing those who are caught.
Wayne
Perfect example of what I am saying. Also the camera people and interviewers didn't have a problem with it happening right in front of their eyes.
It's like "big corporations" have no rights and don't deserve any respect, to these people.
I like that idea! Maybe the RR could commission a bunch of artists to paint any unauthorized vehicle that they happen to find parked on railroad property. Of course, vehicles parked in legitimate parking lots would be spared. The railroad's P.R. Dept. could simply announce that it's an effort to beautify their property.
Tom
dehusman I'm not certain that grafitti is applied on railroad property, a lot of it probably happens when the cars are spotted at industry or side tracks. I would say very little happens in major classification yards where railfans are drawn to. Plus there is too much movement of the cars, not enough time to paint.
I'm not certain that grafitti is applied on railroad property, a lot of it probably happens when the cars are spotted at industry or side tracks. I would say very little happens in major classification yards where railfans are drawn to. Plus there is too much movement of the cars, not enough time to paint.
They will find some cars not watched on a siding, and get out their spray paint there.
This style of grafitti started in New York City and spread from there. In some places like Los Angeles, grafitti of the kind seen on rail cars is applauded by various "community leaders" as a valid expression of art. There was even an article in the L.A. Times about how wonderful and meaningful it was. Common respect of private property, whether, rail cars, buildings or walls, are of little concern to some people and do take a back seat to street art expression. This is the new world we live in, and L.A. and NY City are always the first to initiate change. Railroads are part of society, and therefore not exempt from the new thinking.
Some model railroaders even apply that type of grafitti to their rolling stock.
I prefer not to see it on RR equipment myself.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Redore I find it amazjng that if I set one foot on railroad property someone is right there but someone with a case of spray paint and a ladder can spend hours undisturbed painting the whole side of an auto rack. Go figure..... Not that I make a point of trespassing, I don't.
I find it amazjng that if I set one foot on railroad property someone is right there but someone with a case of spray paint and a ladder can spend hours undisturbed painting the whole side of an auto rack. Go figure.....
Not that I make a point of trespassing, I don't.
Depends on where you trespass.I can trespass all day long in some areas but,let me try that in Willard or Bellevue and see how fast I'm chased off.
Trespassing in or near busy yards will get you chased off..Trespassing in small yards in cities where there is no 24/7 operation--who cares or even notices?
No..I don't trespass but,I have seen hundreds if not thousands of trespassers over the years I been railfaning.
Ah yes, I am always thinking of 'uplifting, artistic expression of beauty' when I see a third-world looking graffiti train crossing the road. Those spotless, slogan-lettered boxcars and colorful passenger cars of days gone just pale in comparison to today's true "art" trains.
Well i am quite certain people who destroy property, such as railroad equipment in this case, arent called "pillars of our society". Using the term "low life" was being generous, and definately NOT judgemental. They earned the title. Call them what they are.
Sensitivity training is not needed, as i am quite sensitive to people like this even existing. i am as intolerant of these types of ilk, as some people are intolerant of hearing a train blow for a grade crossing at 2am.
The world wouldnt be the bad place it is today if not for these types of people.
Im positive it can be said that most folks on this forum (you and I included) love and respect trains. I challenge anyone to show me a 'low life' that shares these same values.
Your not the only one that has to "duck and cover" to get the pics you want. I would suggest thinking of the reason of why that is. I have, and i see no reason for it what so ever. I like you, do not destroy other peoples belongings or property. Low lifes do. They have to be called something and graffiti artist IS NOT the correct term. Thats an empowermentitive term.
Calling graffiti artists "lowlifes" is too judgemental and shows a lack of tolerance for cultural diversity.
That is what you would be accused of in some modern day social circles.
Then you might be required to attend sensitivity training.
Such is the world we live in today, in the USA at least.
In the mean time, I have to dodge and hide to get prototype photos for my model railroad, because I love and respect trains, and am against defacing private property.
Go figure !
"Obviously you are not an art lover? just kidding."
All jesting aside... i actually am an art lover, to be honest. However i dont see this as a form of art, in any shape or form. It just isnt no matter what ANYONE says! What ever some call it today, i cant mention what we call it around here. My appologies if i seem to take these stupid stunts personally.... because i do. I loathe these acts, and the low lifes that commit them.
I saw the Singapore article a couple days ago too. Props to Singapore for atleast doing something about it. I wish in this country we would do the same thing except make the penalties 10x more! I may be old fashioned but "death penalty" doesnt seem out of the question. Again, thats just me.
Will anything ever happen to stop it? I can say beyond a shadow of doubt..... NO, it wont. Unfortunatly. And railfans will always be paying for it. Very shameful in my book.
So if this is what people call art, jesting or not, youd be right about me.... i am not an art lover.
Douglas
PM Railfan Redore I find it amazing that if I set one foot on railroad property someone is right there but someone with a case of spray paint and a ladder can spend hours undisturbed painting the whole side of an auto rack. Go figure..... Not that I make a point of trespassing, I don't. you have no idea how much this statement is true! And it is very upsetting. A dedicated railfan who wholeheartedly supports and promotes railroads is run off, but yet "poor mans artwork" (thats a politically correct way of naming it to meet forum standards) is allowed without interuption. Ive often wondered if the railroads see it like this.... "hey, were getting a free paint job on a metal car. We only need to see the number and repmarks on it. Who cares about the shameless *** all over our cars. The purportraitors of this hieness crimes are only helping us by lowering our bottom line by saving us $$$ on paint. As for railfans..... nothing but foamers, nay'er do gooders and are in the way!" Thats how it comes across to me. And others i know when this subject comes into conversation. Pretty pitiful railroads will never recognize the army of fans they have. Nor the benefits railfans could actually give them, nor the allegience we have to them.
Redore I find it amazing that if I set one foot on railroad property someone is right there but someone with a case of spray paint and a ladder can spend hours undisturbed painting the whole side of an auto rack. Go figure..... Not that I make a point of trespassing, I don't.
I find it amazing that if I set one foot on railroad property someone is right there but someone with a case of spray paint and a ladder can spend hours undisturbed painting the whole side of an auto rack. Go figure.....
you have no idea how much this statement is true! And it is very upsetting. A dedicated railfan who wholeheartedly supports and promotes railroads is run off, but yet "poor mans artwork" (thats a politically correct way of naming it to meet forum standards) is allowed without interuption.
Ive often wondered if the railroads see it like this....
"hey, were getting a free paint job on a metal car. We only need to see the number and repmarks on it. Who cares about the shameless *** all over our cars. The purportraitors of this hieness crimes are only helping us by lowering our bottom line by saving us $$$ on paint.
As for railfans..... nothing but foamers, nay'er do gooders and are in the way!"
Thats how it comes across to me. And others i know when this subject comes into conversation. Pretty pitiful railroads will never recognize the army of fans they have. Nor the benefits railfans could actually give them, nor the allegience we have to them.
Obviously you are not an art lover?
just kidding.
It goes along with the lack of respect and decline of common decency in todays world. All in the name of social progress. What used to be sacred is now fair game. Google "train graffiti" and you will find countless sites supporting it as some sort of valid and accepted art expression. In days gone by, it used to be called "vandalism". Amazing how society has changed.
Looks like it is not seen as art in some places however.
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1730198/germans-duo-be-caned-jailed-spraying-graffiti-singapore-train
On the other hand, if I see a good train scene to photograph, so to someday imitate on my model railroad, the railroad police will be coming up quickly to find out what I'm up to.
Brakie - I completely agree with your statement "Today's railroading is more interesting then most think". We railfan just about every weekend & hardly ever do we not see something new or special. Now it just might be foreign power, a different kind of load, etc. We also hear something new on the scanner quite often, not that we always know what their talking about. My wife even commented once that we need an engineer or a conductor with us so they could explain things, but we are learning. And now that we came out of the dark ages & bought an IPhone about a year ago, we can look things up. Doesn't always give us good anwsers, but it helps. So the gist of it is we are always learning & having fun doing it. Oh, not to mention the nice folks we meet along the way.
Pittsburgh, PA
KyleI think you should be able to take pictures anywhere if you are standing away from the tracks in a safe location. The railroad also doesn't have the right to tell you not to photography from public property
As I mention I never had a issue taking photos from public lands even the local cops have nothing to say.
IF the truth be known I suspect there's more to the story then "Just taking photos from public land".
Thousand of railfans enjoy the hobby daily without being harass by the railroad or cops.Why is this I wonder?
Today's railroading is more interesting then most think.
tedtedderson Are there places the railroads have said "ok, come here with your camera, lawn chair, and snap as many photos you can until you run out of film (lol "film"), but if you go out of this fenced off area you will banned forever"? Seems like there is a demand for such a place. T e d
Are there places the railroads have said "ok, come here with your camera, lawn chair, and snap as many photos you can until you run out of film (lol "film"), but if you go out of this fenced off area you will banned forever"?
Seems like there is a demand for such a place.
T e d
I don't think there is a demand for having the railroads to only have specified places to take pictures from. While it is a good idea to have an area to take pictures from that has a railing to prevent the stupid people getting close to the tracks, I don't agree with not allowing photography outside of those areas. There are many pictures taken from remote locations that shows the harmony of railroads with nature. I think you should be able to take pictures anywhere if you are standing away from the tracks in a safe location. The railroad also doesn't have the right to tell you not to photography from public property (unless your the idiot standing on the grade crossing about to get hit).
I guess I understand why railroads and the authorities are so strict regarding railfanning. Even if you do it on public property. It's a shame that idiots and bad people have ruined it but I get it. There is just too much at stake.
I will go to a museum. I think I should be able to watch trains from public lands but I just don't want the hassle.
tomikawaTTWhen I show ID, they back off. The ID is a DD2(Ret) and the rank reads Master Sergeant.
Back in "the day", my uncle Mac used to call his LAPD retired ID his passport. Every time he got pulled over by a cop, he'd flash that ID and they would always let him off with a have a nice day salutation. But the military ID my dad had (USAF ret LTC. Colonol) didn't have the same effect, back then. Maybe it's different now since 911 it seems. I know these days around the Washington DC area, anyone with a military background is worshipped and fauned over - even if they just peeled potato's - doesn't matter.
My wife, who is from England does baffled here by it all. All the beggars at exit ramps put "veteran" on their cardboard signs to get people to put money in their cups. It certainly wasn't that way before 911 - everyone was more equal back then. It's definitely a different world than what I grew up in where the military served, did their jobs, took everything in stride and didn't expect special treatment. Maybe it's because it was so common then, and now it's actually fairly rare by comparison.
Anyway, back on topic - whenever there is a crisis - things get restricted, and usually it loosens up a bit after time goes by. It happened during WWII and other times. With terrorism, it is a different world too and after 911 everyone was on high alert. Key is, common sense goes a long way, but any more it is a lot less common?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
This seems to be a problem not only because we see terrorists hiding behind every tree, but because of government officials being more than a little hyper. I'd love to say what I mean, but since it involves my opinions of various politicians, it would get me in trouble with the mods. I just remember a Tom Nemeth piece in Railpace about six years ago in which he said government has lost its mind when you can't shoot Amtrak trains on platforms without getting arrested and accused of being a terrorist.
In any case when driving near home, I sometimes have a camera with me in case a train comes.through. Generally speaking, though, I take one day a year to go railfanning, and it usually involves camping out in a parking lot in Syracuse where I can watch CSX freight and Amtrak passenger trains all day. Only once did a cop come by to see what I was doing, but he didn't bother masking questions when he saw my camera.
I never have a problem railfaning in Bellevue,Fostoria,Marion and Willard-all of these areas are railfan "hot spots" in Ohio..No problems railfaning here in Bucyrus either.
I have seen cops drive by several times but,none stopped and I seen a railfan chased off because he was being down right stupid.You just don't set up a tripod up in the gauge of a busy double track mainline and expect to get by with it.
I have a wonder..Why do railfans want to set their lawn chairs within 10' from the track? Do they have a death wish?
I stay 50' from the track(I use zoom) and watch passing trains at 3/4 view in case there is a problem-ballast dust could mean the start of a derailment or dragging equipment.I have a escape route away from the area in the event of a derailment.
And guys,when you leave the area please leave nothing but,your foot prints behind--in other words take your trash with you or place it in a trash can if one is available for use..
Stupid people have been with us forever, and aren't going away any soon.
The reason there SEEMS to be more train-non train accidents is simple.
CNN, FOX, NBC,ABC, ETC.
A truck left on track, four cars derailed, 24 people injured, three days of repeated hourly coverage, seems like a problem.
Repeat 4 times a year, seems like a real problem.
Get everyone to talk about real problems that can be solved.
Dave
Big Boy Forever I didn't really have the dumb*** who gets himself killed at RR crossings in mind when I started this thread, but I submit that it seems to be a big problem nowadays. I don't know why it seems more so than yester-year. Stupid people who challenge trains have always been around, but I suppose maybe it's the sign of the times where lack of common sense seems to be on the rise. I was more concerned about the lack of free movement around railroad areas, due to necessary vigilance, restricting our freedoms, because of terrorist creeps. Maybe I'm a sentimental fool, but I long for the days past when you could watch trains, for the love of trains, without being suspected of nefarious intentions. I suppose I long for the days when you didn't have to stand in lines at airport security checks, for the same reason, when sanity ruled, and citizens were, in general, overall, to be trusted for their human decency.
I didn't really have the dumb*** who gets himself killed at RR crossings in mind when I started this thread, but I submit that it seems to be a big problem nowadays. I don't know why it seems more so than yester-year. Stupid people who challenge trains have always been around, but I suppose maybe it's the sign of the times where lack of common sense seems to be on the rise.
I was more concerned about the lack of free movement around railroad areas, due to necessary vigilance, restricting our freedoms, because of terrorist creeps.
Maybe I'm a sentimental fool, but I long for the days past when you could watch trains, for the love of trains, without being suspected of nefarious intentions.
I suppose I long for the days when you didn't have to stand in lines at airport security checks, for the same reason, when sanity ruled, and citizens were, in general, overall, to be trusted for their human decency.
I agree completely.
I used to casually walk along railroad tracks, knowing that the only threat to my peace of mind was the possibility of being squished because of my wandering mind. As opposed to an authority figure.
I do wish I had a quart of creosote to heat up on the stove to remind me of those days. But an authority figure decided that that was a bad idea.
Sorry about "repositioning" the topic.
Ed
Myself, I've never encountered any problems while I've been railfanning or photographing trains. I live near Sacramento/Roseville, however most of my railfanning is far from these valley railyards, and is done up in the mountains of the Sierras-usually east between Colfax and Truckee.
When I was doing photographs for a 2013 photobook/portfolio of Donner Pass there were many times I wasn't even close to the railroad tracks, but up on nearby mountains and sometimes I was on the other side of some canyons. For the times that I do get near the tracks, I stay far enough away on public land (alot of the land adjacent to the Donner Pass route is U.S. forest service land) that any passing crews just see me as minding my own business or don't see me at all.
When I'm out photographing trains, I try to the get the surrounding landscape into the photo, besides just a large image of the train in the foreground. Yes, it sometimes requires using a telephoto lens, but you can get some great effects and you don't end up with the same kind of photos that someone waiting trackside would usually get.
The bottom line for me is: If I want to photograph trains or just railfan, I'd rather be up in the Sierras (preferably 3,000 feet and far away from the I-80 freeway) then sitting trackside next to the crowded city yards or urban rail landscape. It's a lot nicer up there waiting for that next train-no crowds and no hassles.
And say, you guys have certainly been hearing about known dangerous crossings.
I've got to wonder why the local police, or the railroad police, aren't there writing tickets. A chance to make some money and also remind drivers how dangerous their practices might be.
I've got to wonder why no one is doing it already.
Crossing at Gilman Street, Berkeley, CA:
A very busy street--the crossing is about 200 yards from freeway ramps.
Trains cross it at about 60 MPH. The gates are down about 15 seconds before the train crosses. 15 seconds can be a very long time and/or a very short time. Depending.
I have NEVER seen anyone go around the gates. I have NEVER seen anyone stopped on the tracks behind traffic.
I suspect that most of the vehicles are regulars, and that the drivers have seen the trains go through the crossing. At 60 MPH. And have adequate imaginations.