Newbie asks: to DCC or not to DCC?

[Anonymous]

I'm getting back into modeling after about a 15 year hiatus, and DCC is a mystery to me. I'm planning a medium size layout with single track main and two small yards. I plan on mostly operating by myself, with one train on the main while one switches, or occasionally a local and a passenger train on the main. Occasionally I might have others join me for operation. Given those plans, is DCC for me? Or should I go with good old fashioned block wiring. I'm a little nervous about getting into the expense of DCC, but the flexibility is appealing. Suggestions?

[mononguy63]

First of all, welcome to the forums! Stick around and browse the topics - there's a bunch of folks here who really know their stuff & there's lots and lots of really good information to be had.

I'd guess you'll get an overwhelming response of people telling you that it's a no-brainer going DCC. I'll start by saying that I'm a DC guy with no intent to change any time if the foreseeable future, as DCC is a new trick and I'm definitely an old dog.

If you're looking at a single-operator layout that will be running maybe two trains at any time, I question whether the added flexibility and "gee-whiz factor" of DCC really enters into play as much. Like you, my under-construction layout will be modestly-sized with probably one operator for 99% of its existence. I have enough trouble figuring out which thumb is on which hand, much less addressing and juggling two independently-running trains without ending up with a cornfield meet somewhere. My traditional DC block control will serve as that safety net. Is DC less realistic? Sure it is. Easier to set up & run? Depends on whom you ask. For me and my limited resources and even more limited grey matter, I'll stick with what I know and already have - DC.

Good luck, and let the fireworks begin...

[tstage]

pirateyar,

First off: [#welcome] to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]

"Is DCC for me?" Simply put - yes! For me, there is no comparison to the advantages of DCC over DC. Do you have any locomotives at all? Will you be converting any over to DCC, or will you be purchasing new ones? What scale will you be running?

The best thing for you to do is to read and take in as much as you can. Right off the bat, here's a couple of good resources for you to look at:

---

DCC Made Easy by Lionel Strang (Kalmbach Publishing)
Lionel does a great job of simplify DCC in easy to understand layman's terms.

DCC For Beginners - http://www.tonystrains.com (Point 2. on home page)
Good explanation of DCC on Tony's web site. You can either read it online or download it as a .pdf file.

---

See if you can't also find someone in your area (e.g. train club) that runs DCC on their layout and ask them if you can't stop by to watch an operations session or see them run it.

There are about 6 or so companies that make decent DCC systems and all have their pros and cons. With the items that you have listed as your requirements, you can spend a little or a lot on a DCC system. The key to finding the right system for you is to determine what things you can live with and what you can't live without.

We're here to help, too, so ask as many questions as you need to. (Even if you think they are dumb.)

Again, welcome aboard!

Tom

[simon1966]

I converted to DCC a couple of years ago and can not imagine running a block system every again. The ability to run trains as they were meant to be run makes operating the layout a real pleasure. Read all you can, and more importantly see if you can run a DCC equipped layout. There are some excellent beginer systems for DCC so the cost does not have to be over the top.

[MisterBeasley]

First, welcome aboard. Second, I appreciate your screen name. And third, I have a small layout and I think DCC makes just as much sense for small layouts as it does for large ones, particularly when you're running by yourself. Your stated goal of running one train out on the mainline while another is being switched matches up with the way I run pretty well, and DCC allows you to do it better. As has been said before, "With DC you run the track. With DCC you run the trains."

[Anonymous]

Anybody starting out in the hobby today should go DCC. I say this even though I am still DC - purely because I haven't yet faced the investment in money and time to retofit my steam fleet with decoders.

[fwright]

From my perspective, you are probably close to the break-even point between the 2 systems. For the operational style you cite, one train running unattended while you switch with the other on pretty much separate trackage, DCC offers little advantage other than sound and fancy lights (which may be good enough reasons to go DCC by themselves).

Once you have more than one operator each operating their own train, DCC comes into its own because of not having to worry about block toggles. The amount of wiring is reduced. However (and this is a biggie), multiple operators still have to keep track of what the other is doing anyway to avoid undesirable encounters of the closest kind between trains. If you have frequent multiple operators sharing track, you will likely have to develop a reasonably rigorous system to communicate with each other about location and intentions - just like you have to do with block control.

Perhaps there are those video game converts (obvious perjorative language!) who enjoy juggling several trains at once on the same DCC controller, but I am not one of them. One train per operator is my rule, unless a train can be allowed to circulate continuously unattended.

my thoughts, your choices
Fred W

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the helpful advice everyone, especially the link to the pdf at Tony's Trains, I've printed that out. [8D]

[Anonymous]

Do you already have all your old DC stuff to rebuild your layout? If you were happy doing what you were doing 15 years ago, then you are all ready and set to go.

Or, are you buying new equipment? If so, I would go with DCC for sure. An entry level DCC system from the popular manufacturers is not really expensive. And you spend what you want on engines.

You may find that DCC sound will addict you. It did to me. I have only a small layout .... I am up close and personal with my engines as they work (or idle). I couldn't even imagine not having sound. I would rather have one quality engine with sound, than a handful of non sound units.

But take my advice with a grain of salt ....... I've never had a completed layout without DCC and sound ..... its really all I know.

Greg

[CNJ831]

Pirate - The layout plan and operations scenario you describe is just as well served by DC as DCC. If you have the extra cash, have an electronics bend, and are buying all new equipment, DCC would be more favored.

I run DC and have for many years. Honestly, I've visited a number of smaller DCC layouts and came away unimpressed. Other than the fancy lights and sounds (and sound is available in many/most high end DC engines anyway) they offered me nothing DC wouldn't do just as well. I'll also add that when it's working fine, DCC is nice. But when something "odd" goes wrong, troubleshooting the system can require outside help (and I've seen that situation more than once during visits to other's layouts). Generally, electrical problems with DC can be isolated and quickly found through the block system. You can even just cut out the offending block and keep running trains. If your DCC system developes a glitch, you entire layout can go down.

So...as some others have advised, try to find guys with both types of operating systems in your area, visit their pikes, ask them about the pros and cons and see just what appeals to you, because in the end you are the one it has to please.

CNJ831

[ARTHILL]

I resisted until three weeks ago, and went DCC. I love it. It was easy to do. I didn't have to learn any more than I had to re-learn to start out again in DC. I love running two or three trains at a time. I love having the G kids all run their own train. My old brass runs just fine until I get it changed. When I finaly spring for radio, it will be what I only dreamed of 45 years ago.

[bugboy63]

what i have gathered from this site is that there are many factors...
space, money, time, operations, theme......

i am in the same boat, i have all my old dc stuff thats been in boxes for longer than i care to remember.... [:(]

you got to ask yourself how much time am i going to give to the hobby?
is it your life or a pasttime?
i have seen some layouts and setups here that blow my mind.....[:0]
i can't imagine how much these guys have put in some of these layouts....

me, i have mostly bought used pieces at shows that are already weathered, built & broken in..... then tweek it a bit...
that's good enough for me.....
dcc may be great... but i am going to stay with what i started out with..

a simple cheap hobbie... to keep me occupied during the winter [:D]

[selector]

Bugboy63 is on to something. You are returning to a hobby that thrilled you...as it WAS. You may still find those thrills, but you have changed, and so has the hobby, at least to an extent, in both cases. It seems that once someone warms to this hobby, they want more...much more. More rolling stock, more track, more terrain, and surely more locos. If, like me, you refuse to store them in lockers as their numbers grow, then you will have to place them on the layout, and you can't do that with DC unless you have switched blocks [sigh]. I can imagine what it is like to work a layout in DC with blocks, and the prospect is most unappealing. With DCC, you need only worry about reverse loops. Everything else is "real world" simple, including hooking up two locos, tail-to-tail, and letting them try to pull each other in the opposite direction. Try that in any one block on DC!

You wouldn't drool over a brand new 1989 Chev that had never sold if you saw it on the lot, you would probably want the best that technology has to offer in 2005ish, or so. DCC is the most recent technology in running trains realistically, and if you are likely to "grow" in the hobby at all, you should come up with a compelling reason to stay in DC.

That's my two cents.

[Walter Clot]

I have dc. I have one engine with dcc, which I did several years ago when I was in a club that wanted to start running dcc. I have a great number of engines that are not dcc. My layout is a double main line with an extensive industrial siding. Each main line is on a different power supply. The industrial siding is in blocks with it's own power supply . I also have a smaller area on which a connecting train can run continously and has some sidings for switching. It has it's own power supply. Thus I can have 4 operators! I am 70 years old and not interested in trying to change to dcc.
HOWEVER If I were just beginning and knew what I know now, I would go dcc.
Age and amount of equipment is another factor to consider.

[simon1966]

Exactly Walter, there is a huge difference between starting out fresh and deciding to convert after years in the hobby. Converting requires a lot more thought and planning to be successful. It can also be fraught with dissapointment if much loved older equipment does not lend itself to easy DCC conversion.

[rolleiman]

I'd say go for it. Especially if you are starting over from scratch buying all new stuff. The naysayers, when it comes to single operator moderately sized pikes are right.. Not a big advantage, until you want to keep other locos on tracks. Strictly from a personal standpoint, DCC 8 years ago after block wiring several model rails, and haven't looked back since. Check it out, put your hands on a system (club, show, etc) somewhere and see if you like it. Know that on average, it adds about $20 to the cost of each loco by the time you get them running on DCC. Some of us just like features more than others. The choice is strictly yours..

Just make sure you're having fun [:P]

[Anonymous]

I would reccomend you get dcc ready engines, so that if you go dcc later on you can change over easily. after money doesn't grow on trees, and if you have some system that you don't use, then it is a waste of money, whitch you could use to buy another loco etc.

these are my reccomendation, and whatever path you choose i hpe you have fun in the hobby.

alexander

[tstage]

Well said, Alexander.

Tom

[simon1966]

Pirateyar, if you have not been following it, read the DCC Knucklehead thread. I think it kind of sums things up. Here is a guy who has experienced some frustration getting going with DCC, some bad decoder installations, and yet read what John says about his first running experience! It does not matter which DCC system you purchase, this is the sort of reaction many have.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64736

[spidge]

I was also concerned about the non DCC ready locos I have but began purchasing DCC ready as soon as I saw them. I have some nice dc locos but I will either get the frame replacements or send to some to modify and install the decoders. Its a big deal but the results will be awesome.
I will have to modify a GP30,GP9,and a RSD4/5, not too much.
After all are DCC I will go with some sound but I have committed to the family that they will see scenery and structures before I spend anymore on sound. They want to help with the scenery and make some scenes of their own.

I guess is what I am saying is just do it. Do a few locos and Have someone run them with you. You wont go back. The difference in the thought proccess to run a layout will drive you crazy. Its a whole new world.

[Anonymous]

DCC is now the standard. However, there are situations where DC may be the better choice.

When to Go DC

-- If you have a small layout that only requires one train -- maybe an HO shortline or switching terminal on a shelf -- it is probably more economical to go DC.

-- If you have a good number of older locomotives, especially Athearn Blue Boxes, DC may be a better choice.

-- If you have children who will be operating the layout without supervision then it is probably better to have a locomotive roster made up of Athearn Blue Boxes and Walthers Trainline. DC will also insure you that your kids won't be tempted to do a Pugsly Adams head on collision with the trains.

-- There are some people who really like operating a DC layout with all the block wiring, etc...

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RevMattCNJ

DCC is now the standard. However, there are situations where DC may be the better choice.

Quite honestly, Rev, that isn't so. As best can be determined through various hobbyist surveys, even after being available for more than a dozen years no more than around 20% of modelers (see MR editorial about 2003) are operating with DCC today. In spite of the hoopla in the magazines, DC remains by far the most popular operating system, especially for those with established layouts and this is likely to remain so for many years to come.

Among my own circle of hobbyist friends it is mainly the younger guys and newbies that have gone with DCC. The older, longterm, hobbyists (including myself) all seem perfectly satisfied running trains via DC and block systems.

CNJ831

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Don't let anybody try to bully you into DCC. It's good for many situations. I myself am thinking about DCC myself, although I'll have to convert mytire fleet of locos to use it. For now, DC is for me.

Jeffrey Wimberly, Leesville, La.

I'm out of my mind, but leave a message anyway.

[soapbox]

[Anonymous]

i was wondering the same thing about t.v. i haven't had one in 40 years and was wondering if i should stick with my old black and white with the rabbit ears or go for this new fangled color t.v. i hear about with satallite something or other


easy answer even if your layout is small dcc is a better answer you will enjoy it more

[tstage]

Some folks enjoy the pros and cons of DC. Some folks like the pros and cons of DCC. As a 2-year "newbie" to the hobby, I find myself in the latter group because DCC intuitively makes more sense to me.

The bottom line is that YOU are the one who will be running your layout. You have to be the one who is happy with your system - whether it be old school or new school.

Tom

[CraigN]

I can understand why someone well established with a DC layout and lots of engines is afraid to take the plunge.

But if you are just starting out, and are planning to make model railroading a life long hobby, spend the extra money and go DCC. You won't regret it.

However, if you are only testing the waters and you aren't sure if model railroading is for you, just go DC. It is a far cheaper way to get introduced into the hobby.

Then if you decide that model railroading is the hobby for you, then make the switch to DCC before you get alot invested in engines. It won't seem to hurt the wallet as much that way.

Craig

[simon1966]

If you follow Craig's advice, there are many things you can do to make the conversion to DCC easier. As mentioned above, get locos that are easy to convert. Wire your blocks so that they make sense as dcc power districts. I basically ran my main lines on DC for a year, but had wired them as if I was going to run DCC. It made making the switch a snap. I meant I could run trains, but only incur the DCC expense when I was ready to.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pirateyar
Or should I go with good old fashioned block wiring. I'm a little nervous about getting into the expense of DCC, but the flexibility is appealing.

These days I always puzzle when someone talks about the expense of DCC. It isn't like 20 years ago when a command control system would cost in the neighborhood of a thousand of dollars (and still worth every nickel for the people who truly operated back then). A DCC system can be purchased for the price of a good locomotive. When one starts to consider the cost of the control panels, electrical switches, block selector switches, and the cost of a DC controller for each cab I am certain the DC system is going to cost more. The cost of mobile decoders for the locomotives has gotten so cheap I don't even consider it a cost anymore. 15 years ago I was paying $50-60 per decoder (don't know what that would be in today's dollars). Often that was twice the price of the loco!

DCC is cheap cheap cheap...... And as I said above, even if it wasn't cheap, command control is worth it at any price!

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone! Some great advice here. To clarify--I don't really have much equipment left from the old days. A couple of engines, but I may not even end up keeping those. So I'm basically starting from scratch. DCC seems like a clear favorite, I think the main hurdle remaining is that I don't actually know all the details of setting it up as compared to the old block style wiring. But I'm learning. I've already read the stuff from Tony's Trains, and I plan to purchase one or more of the DCC intro books. There's a local train club here (Tallahassee) so I'm going to try to catch one of their upcoming meetings.

Yes, it looks like the train bug is back and not going away anytime soon. [:)]

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pirateyar
I think the main hurdle remaining is that I don't actually know all the details of setting it up as compared to the old block style wiring. But I'm learning. I've already read the stuff from Tony's Trains, and I plan to purchase one or more of the DCC intro books.

The real thing to remember is that, as far as the track wiring goes, it is super easy compared to the old block style wiring. All this talk of power buses, multiple feeds, and DCC incompatible turnouts are over stated and obfuscate that, In general, it is one wire from each lead of the DCC controller to each rail and go..... Even reversing loops are so much easier with the auto-sense and switch circuits.

The complexity comes with hot frog turnouts and the like but that is NOT a DCC issue that is an issue with any power through the track system.