QUOTE: Originally posted by rlbeetle Just finished my first layout. I bought an Atlas layout kit to learn and learned a lot. I used the code 83 track and the layout has 12 turnouts. So far out of the 12, two turnouts are starting to derail my trains as they come through them. And two of the solenoids to switch the turnouts have quit working in one direction. I am ready to start another layout and was wondering if I would be better off using a different brand of switch or maybe use code 100 track. One advantage of code 100 track is my lhs carries it if I need some in a hurry.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Originally posted by HAZMAT9 Thanks Dave; I'm probably going with Flex 83 although I'm questioning the Atlas 83 switches....heard some negative things about them. [:(][:(] Sorry Steve I dont.. [B)] Reply Edit rrinker Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Reading, PA 30,002 posts Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 4:47 PM People can say all the negative things they want about Atlas Code 83 urnouts, but I haven't had any problem with them so far. I've run anything we can get through them, forwards and backwards - including an old brass 4-8-4 and a BLI M1A. No derailments. The cars that 'bounce' goign throught he frogs? A quick check with the NMRA gauge showed that EVERY SINGLE wheeleset that bounced was TOO TIGHT in back-to-back gauge. The ones that could be adjusted, once adjusted, ran fine - but all plastic wheels will be banished anyway, just have to refit slowly, as we can afford more stuff. Sure those new Peco US-style Code 83 turnouts have much more detail on them - they are also more than double the price, and I'm not Donald Trump. --Randy Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more. Reply HAZMAT9 Member sinceDecember 2004 From: The Great American Southwest 403 posts Posted by HAZMAT9 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 4:10 PM Thanks Dave; I'm probably going with Flex 83 although I'm questioning the Atlas 83 switches....heard some negative things about them. Do you or anyone else know other switches that I can use w/o having to do customizing...just straight use w/ the Atlas Flex 83 track? Anyhow, I'll look at the plan and estimate pieces that I need in flex....believe it, it's a lot easier to obtain on sale at places like Ebay! Many Thanks....Steve [:)] Steve "SP Lives On " (UP is just hiding their cars) 2007 Tank Car Specialist Graduate Reply HAZMAT9 Member sinceDecember 2004 From: The Great American Southwest 403 posts Posted by HAZMAT9 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 4:04 PM No prob. I'll keep you up on the progress. Once I cookie-cutter and get the track down, I'll post some pics. I'm theming it quite different from the original and may go with chaparel/coastal theme. I plan to add some good sized hills and split the layout w/ ocean on one side with an oil refinery and two small towns in between. The layout will also have a major switching yard in which I'm adding an additional 1X10 feet and an added main line with a wider radius for passenger. Essentially the wider main line will be for passenger with the rest of the layout and tighter radius for freight. This will be HO scale and will be emphasizing SP Railroad 1950-70's era and many "Black Widow" engines both passenger and freight. Passenger will be "Daylight" and freight "Overnight." Steve [:D] Steve "SP Lives On " (UP is just hiding their cars) 2007 Tank Car Specialist Graduate Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 3:59 PM Originally posted by HAZMAT9 Hi all: I'm at the point of getting ready to purchase track .... I'm wondering if I could somehow purchase a bulk of Code 83 flex and go about it this way... a way to figure out how much flex track I need based on an Atlas sectional track plan if I decide to go this way? Lastly, does anyone have an example of cost comparisons of using sectional versus flex.... Steve To directly address your cost exercise you have to do what any consumer does- work out the 'price gaps' and advantages to be gained. You've been given the technical reasons by others. I dont have the book or know the plan- however as these are usually scaled in 1' squares (or section sizes are 'known" lengths [i.e. 5" straight] then you will have to 'guestimate' the approximate sectional length you'll want to replace with flex. Once you know that, add up all switches and special track sections required (or discard any you dont want)- then cost these at retail, or net prices for what you can get. The total cost of this is specials plus flex versus the 'layout kit' should give you the answers you want. How much the kit/s are discounted by and what value that represents (could be anywhere from retail less 5%- 25%) depending where you get them, is the decision you must make. Since every plan is different, and sizes may vary depending on your changes, then the cost benefit is going to shift every time a 'change' is made. If you have more time than money then it is worthwhile to do- if time is also a problem you may be better starting simply with the kits. Regards, davew Reply Edit davekelly Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Rhode Island 2,216 posts Posted by davekelly on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 3:25 PM Steve, Would love to see pics of your layout as you progress. The Granite Gorge and Nothern was the layout my dad made for himself when I was growing up (my Nscale loop and a few siding slid underneath). I can't tell you then number of hours I spent either running his trains or running mine under his. If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong. Reply DSchmitt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018 4,422 posts Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 2:41 PM Nothing wrong with mixing flex track and sectional track. For instance a short length (especially if it is curved) between two turnouts is easier to do with sectional track. In N scale I once used 7-1/2 in radius sectional track pieces for curves in an industrial area. The flex track won't easily bend that sharp. The longest curve was 2 sections, the others 1 section or less. I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it. I don't have a leg to stand on. Reply HAZMAT9 Member sinceDecember 2004 From: The Great American Southwest 403 posts Posted by HAZMAT9 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 2:10 PM Great information!! I tried the RTS program and wasn't too impressed, kinda difficult to use at first, may give it another shot. Definitely will go with flex track and solder joints. Will be going with a Prodigy Advanced DCC which will be pretty easy to tie in. Maybe I'll just add up the number of pieces and lengths and get an estimate of how much to go with.....no harm no foul if I over/underestimate a bit. May go w/ an extra booster especially if I have an additional yard since the Prodigy is a bit underpowered. Thanks for all the help, will keep you all informed on the progress. BTW, I went with the benchwork in the Track Plan book Vol. 7 for the Granite Gorge & Northern model railroad. It iwas a bit off on the frame contrary to the book's comment that all errors have been fixed. Used 1X4 framing with 1/2" plywood on top and will cookie-cutter. Just need to temp lay track to cookie cutter. Again Thanks........Steve [:D] Steve "SP Lives On " (UP is just hiding their cars) 2007 Tank Car Specialist Graduate Reply RMax1 Member sinceSeptember 2002 642 posts Posted by RMax1 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 12:44 PM When I did my first layout I used the Atlas plans in the books. I soon replaced the long stretches of 9'" pieces with 36" flextrack. It worked out great. Less hassles and not as much rail joining. Money saved was minor if any. I still use a combination of the two on my current layout. I tend to recycle as much as possible from old projects. RMax1 Reply BRVRR Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Elyria, OH 2,586 posts Posted by BRVRR on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:57 AM HAZMAT9, Two methods for measuring track length come to mind: If you have examples of the various sectional track, measure them and add up the totals for your layout. This together with the turnout lengths will give you an approximation of the layouts length. The second method is to go to the Atlas web site and download RTS, their layout planning software. Then put the track plan from the book into the system. There are tools in the RTS software that can measure the lenth of track for you. The software also has an inventory and pricing area. If you enter the price of each item, it will give you total cost. It has a line item for each item Atlas offers. If you are adding to the layout, the use of the RTS software gives you a method of testing feasibility and the fit of your proposed additions. RTS takes a little time to learn as with any new software, but it has the advantage of being free. I use it to test changes to the BRVRR. In general, I think flextrack is superior to sectional track. Fewer joints means fewer overall problems. Remember to solder the sections of flextrack together for the curves before laying them. I don't recommend using the track joiner/electrical feeders (The Atlas term for them escapes me right now.) Solder your feeders directly to the outside of the rails. You don't mention if you are going with DC or DCC. I would recommend DCC. Better operation and much simplified wiring. I wish you luck. Keep us informed of your progress.[:D] Remember its your railroad Allan Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/ Reply WilmJunc Member sinceApril 2015 329 posts Posted by WilmJunc on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:34 AM Flex track gives you the option to use any radius you want anywhere on your layout and does not limit you to only specific radii. As a beginner, I did not find it at all difficult to install. Modeling the B&M Railroad during the transition era in Lowell, MA Reply davekelly Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Rhode Island 2,216 posts Posted by davekelly on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:29 AM I would suggest that you get a couple of pieces of flex and practicing soldering the rails and laying it to see if it is something you want to do or can do. To figure out how much flex track perhaps you could use a piece of string and lay it out along the track plan. Figure about 10 percent more to take care of curves (the outside rail gets "shorter") and waste. If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong. Reply HAZMAT9 Member sinceDecember 2004 From: The Great American Southwest 403 posts Posted by HAZMAT9 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:25 AM I see your points in regards to flex, any way of estimating how much I need based on a sectional track plan? Thanks, Steve[:)] Steve "SP Lives On " (UP is just hiding their cars) 2007 Tank Car Specialist Graduate Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 10:52 AM I can see your trying to bargain shop and save money but track is the backbone of your layout. I have gotten to the point in my budget I get maybe one or two turnouts a month, things take time if you want your trackwork to be the best. As for flex track its better due to less connections and joints I think with sectional you are looking at potentially more chances for derailment and poor electrical connections. Reply Edit dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,621 posts Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 10:48 AM Use flex track. Every joint is an opportunity for an electrical fault, and for an operational misalignment. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply HAZMAT9 Member sinceDecember 2004 From: The Great American Southwest 403 posts Flex Track versus Sectional Posted by HAZMAT9 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 10:28 AM Hi all: I'm at the point of getting ready to purchase track for my layout which is the on the Granite Gorge & Northern railroad found in Vol 7. of Atlas Track Plans. I've priced the track kits available for this layout which comes out to around $ 400.00 or so for Code 83 track. Since this is based on sectional track, I'm wondering if I could somehow purchase a bulk of Code 83 flex and go about it this way. I've heard positive/negative stories each way in regards to using sectional track, any suggestions out there? Also, is there a way to figure out how much flex track I need based on an Atlas sectional track plan if I decide to go this way? Lastly, does anyone have an example of cost comparisons of using sectional versus flex....which one is more economical, hate to have to look at this but the layout will have an extra switch yard which is going to cost me dearly in addition to the Granite Gorge & Northern layout. Any help would be appreciated.....Steve [:D] Steve "SP Lives On " (UP is just hiding their cars) 2007 Tank Car Specialist Graduate Reply Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Originally posted by HAZMAT9 Hi all: I'm at the point of getting ready to purchase track .... I'm wondering if I could somehow purchase a bulk of Code 83 flex and go about it this way... a way to figure out how much flex track I need based on an Atlas sectional track plan if I decide to go this way? Lastly, does anyone have an example of cost comparisons of using sectional versus flex.... Steve To directly address your cost exercise you have to do what any consumer does- work out the 'price gaps' and advantages to be gained. You've been given the technical reasons by others. I dont have the book or know the plan- however as these are usually scaled in 1' squares (or section sizes are 'known" lengths [i.e. 5" straight] then you will have to 'guestimate' the approximate sectional length you'll want to replace with flex. Once you know that, add up all switches and special track sections required (or discard any you dont want)- then cost these at retail, or net prices for what you can get. The total cost of this is specials plus flex versus the 'layout kit' should give you the answers you want. How much the kit/s are discounted by and what value that represents (could be anywhere from retail less 5%- 25%) depending where you get them, is the decision you must make. Since every plan is different, and sizes may vary depending on your changes, then the cost benefit is going to shift every time a 'change' is made. If you have more time than money then it is worthwhile to do- if time is also a problem you may be better starting simply with the kits. Regards, davew Reply Edit davekelly Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Rhode Island 2,216 posts Posted by davekelly on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 3:25 PM Steve, Would love to see pics of your layout as you progress. The Granite Gorge and Nothern was the layout my dad made for himself when I was growing up (my Nscale loop and a few siding slid underneath). I can't tell you then number of hours I spent either running his trains or running mine under his. If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong. Reply DSchmitt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018 4,422 posts Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 2:41 PM Nothing wrong with mixing flex track and sectional track. For instance a short length (especially if it is curved) between two turnouts is easier to do with sectional track. In N scale I once used 7-1/2 in radius sectional track pieces for curves in an industrial area. The flex track won't easily bend that sharp. The longest curve was 2 sections, the others 1 section or less. I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it. I don't have a leg to stand on. Reply HAZMAT9 Member sinceDecember 2004 From: The Great American Southwest 403 posts Posted by HAZMAT9 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 2:10 PM Great information!! I tried the RTS program and wasn't too impressed, kinda difficult to use at first, may give it another shot. Definitely will go with flex track and solder joints. Will be going with a Prodigy Advanced DCC which will be pretty easy to tie in. Maybe I'll just add up the number of pieces and lengths and get an estimate of how much to go with.....no harm no foul if I over/underestimate a bit. May go w/ an extra booster especially if I have an additional yard since the Prodigy is a bit underpowered. Thanks for all the help, will keep you all informed on the progress. BTW, I went with the benchwork in the Track Plan book Vol. 7 for the Granite Gorge & Northern model railroad. It iwas a bit off on the frame contrary to the book's comment that all errors have been fixed. Used 1X4 framing with 1/2" plywood on top and will cookie-cutter. Just need to temp lay track to cookie cutter. Again Thanks........Steve [:D] Steve "SP Lives On " (UP is just hiding their cars) 2007 Tank Car Specialist Graduate Reply RMax1 Member sinceSeptember 2002 642 posts Posted by RMax1 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 12:44 PM When I did my first layout I used the Atlas plans in the books. I soon replaced the long stretches of 9'" pieces with 36" flextrack. It worked out great. Less hassles and not as much rail joining. Money saved was minor if any. I still use a combination of the two on my current layout. I tend to recycle as much as possible from old projects. RMax1 Reply BRVRR Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Elyria, OH 2,586 posts Posted by BRVRR on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:57 AM HAZMAT9, Two methods for measuring track length come to mind: If you have examples of the various sectional track, measure them and add up the totals for your layout. This together with the turnout lengths will give you an approximation of the layouts length. The second method is to go to the Atlas web site and download RTS, their layout planning software. Then put the track plan from the book into the system. There are tools in the RTS software that can measure the lenth of track for you. The software also has an inventory and pricing area. If you enter the price of each item, it will give you total cost. It has a line item for each item Atlas offers. If you are adding to the layout, the use of the RTS software gives you a method of testing feasibility and the fit of your proposed additions. RTS takes a little time to learn as with any new software, but it has the advantage of being free. I use it to test changes to the BRVRR. In general, I think flextrack is superior to sectional track. Fewer joints means fewer overall problems. Remember to solder the sections of flextrack together for the curves before laying them. I don't recommend using the track joiner/electrical feeders (The Atlas term for them escapes me right now.) Solder your feeders directly to the outside of the rails. You don't mention if you are going with DC or DCC. I would recommend DCC. Better operation and much simplified wiring. I wish you luck. Keep us informed of your progress.[:D] Remember its your railroad Allan Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/ Reply WilmJunc Member sinceApril 2015 329 posts Posted by WilmJunc on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:34 AM Flex track gives you the option to use any radius you want anywhere on your layout and does not limit you to only specific radii. As a beginner, I did not find it at all difficult to install. Modeling the B&M Railroad during the transition era in Lowell, MA Reply davekelly Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Rhode Island 2,216 posts Posted by davekelly on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:29 AM I would suggest that you get a couple of pieces of flex and practicing soldering the rails and laying it to see if it is something you want to do or can do. To figure out how much flex track perhaps you could use a piece of string and lay it out along the track plan. Figure about 10 percent more to take care of curves (the outside rail gets "shorter") and waste. If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong. Reply HAZMAT9 Member sinceDecember 2004 From: The Great American Southwest 403 posts Posted by HAZMAT9 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:25 AM I see your points in regards to flex, any way of estimating how much I need based on a sectional track plan? Thanks, Steve[:)] Steve "SP Lives On " (UP is just hiding their cars) 2007 Tank Car Specialist Graduate Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 10:52 AM I can see your trying to bargain shop and save money but track is the backbone of your layout. I have gotten to the point in my budget I get maybe one or two turnouts a month, things take time if you want your trackwork to be the best. As for flex track its better due to less connections and joints I think with sectional you are looking at potentially more chances for derailment and poor electrical connections. Reply Edit dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,621 posts Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 10:48 AM Use flex track. Every joint is an opportunity for an electrical fault, and for an operational misalignment. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply HAZMAT9 Member sinceDecember 2004 From: The Great American Southwest 403 posts Flex Track versus Sectional Posted by HAZMAT9 on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 10:28 AM Hi all: I'm at the point of getting ready to purchase track for my layout which is the on the Granite Gorge & Northern railroad found in Vol 7. of Atlas Track Plans. I've priced the track kits available for this layout which comes out to around $ 400.00 or so for Code 83 track. Since this is based on sectional track, I'm wondering if I could somehow purchase a bulk of Code 83 flex and go about it this way. I've heard positive/negative stories each way in regards to using sectional track, any suggestions out there? Also, is there a way to figure out how much flex track I need based on an Atlas sectional track plan if I decide to go this way? Lastly, does anyone have an example of cost comparisons of using sectional versus flex....which one is more economical, hate to have to look at this but the layout will have an extra switch yard which is going to cost me dearly in addition to the Granite Gorge & Northern layout. Any help would be appreciated.....Steve [:D] Steve "SP Lives On " (UP is just hiding their cars) 2007 Tank Car Specialist Graduate Reply Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Modeling the B&M Railroad during the transition era in Lowell, MA
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com