Greetings,
Beginning my initial investigation on adding a roundhouse (and turntable) to my next layout. Curious to hear thoughts about Walthers vs CMS CMR? I know the latter is more expensive. Is it worth saving one's pennies for?
Thanks,
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I believe you mean CMR.
Isn't the big difference the Walthers TT comes in 2 sizes and are almost just dropin while the CMR turntables come in 4 sizes and are kits?
Peter
tstage Greetings, Beginning my initial investigation on adding a roundhouse (and turntable) to my next layout. Curious to hear thoughts about Walthers vs CMS? I know the latter is more expensive. Is it worth saving one's pennies for? Thanks, Tom
Beginning my initial investigation on adding a roundhouse (and turntable) to my next layout. Curious to hear thoughts about Walthers vs CMS? I know the latter is more expensive. Is it worth saving one's pennies for?
CMS? Do you mean CMR - Custom Model Railroads?
That is what I have, well worth the extra money in my view. I have the 135' version.
I upgraded mine with etched brass power hoop and railings from Bowser, which I don't think are available any more.
The CMR turntable is a kit that takes some patience, and it does not include an indexing system. I think the motor offering is the same as mine, it is just a slow speed motor with a direction switch, and another switch for Run/Jog.
So you line it up by just bumping the motor after you get it close - that's how they did it on the prototype.
I also have the CMR roundhouse, two kits to build 12 stalls. I have not built that yet.
Lining it up manually works fine if you are reasonably close to it. Other wise you may need indexing.
Mechanically the CMR unit is much more heavy duty than any plastic drop in RTR/kit turnatable I have seen.
Sheldon
Sorry, fellas. Yes, CMR is what I meant...
These turntables and detail kits are still available as well. Very popular back in the day.
http://www.diamond-scale.com/default.htm
And they have parts that would be a good upgrade to the CMR unit.
http://www.diamond-scale.com/products__arches_trucks_cabs.htm
I have the original Walthers 130' non-DCC turntable. Bought it in 2005 and it is still running flawlessly.
I also have the Walthers Roundhouse, 9 stalls in all. It is a perfect fit for the Walthers turntable.
Rich
Alton Junction
I had the Walther's 110 foot non-DCC turntable. Had one issue with the control board that Walther's replaced for free. Other than that, I've been very happy with it. Paired it with one of the Walther's roundhouses (not the modern one, the other one) and it serves my needs well.
Mike
tstageCurious to hear thoughts about Walthers vs CMR?
My decision was to go with niether one of those two options. I furtunately scrounged a couple of old Bowser turntables in good unused condition. These have a very rugged design and my previous one worked very well for years.
Of the two you mentioned, I would go with CMR. There have been too many stories of problems with newer Walthers turntables for me to be comfortable with one.
tstageBeginning my initial investigation on adding a roundhouse.
I chose the Walthers "Modern" roundhouse. I want 16 stalls on my roundhouse, and this was the one that was readily available with what I needed.
If I was going to build a four to six stall roundhouse, I would have chosen a different model.
The craftsman kit by South River Model Works would have been my number-one choice for a smaller roundhouse.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have never had a problem with the original RTR Walther turntable, for a roundhose I used a Vollmer because it was a bit more relistic than the others at the time, of couse I did some changes as it was not American based but those changes were mainly omiting details.
I went with the Walthers RH and TT. The look of the RH was closest to what I wanted and the TT was ready to go. With the glacial speed at which my layout progresses, I have to pick my battles as to what I want to scratch build, kit build, or drop and drive. The TT has been flawless for years.
I am in no position to recommend one based on my own knowledge and/or experience, but I am really happy with what I have.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Tom,
What size turntable are you considering? Does it need indexing?
Sheldon,
It has to be a least 120' to turn my 115.5' Niagara with the PT-4 tender. Every other NYC locomotive in my roster is less than that. (My NYC 2-6-6-2 Mallet is only '86 long.) IIRC, CMR has a 120' & 135' TT; Walthers has their 130'.
Tom, what size are considering?
Mine is 90'. These things can eat lots of real estate. I can get a Hudson on it, however, 2-10-4s are too big. Someone on FB mentioned that in the real world to get a loco into the RH that didn't fit on the TT you could just straight-shot it across the TT into a stall (why didn't I think of that). So for every approach track to the TT you can get a larger engine inside. So I settled on the 90'
If I want to turn a larger engine, I have a balloon track around the RH and can use that, which I also use to turn whole trains around.
Here is a 2-10-4 with its bum out. Straight shot in and it is warm for the night.
tstage Sheldon, It has to be a least 120' to turn my 115.5' Niagara with the PT-4 tender. Every other NYC locomotive in my roster is less than that. (My NYC 2-6-6-2 Mallet is only '86 long.) IIRC, CMR has a 120' & 135' TT; Walthers has their 130'. Tom
Not sure why they are described as differen in length, but the Walthers 130' and the CMR 135' are basically the same length.
Niagara/PT4 on 110’ turntable by Michael, on Flickr
A pair of F units will fit on it as well, but a pair of E units or Alco PA's will not.
Brent,
As mentioned, at least 120' for the TT. Same for the RH.
A 6-stall RT should fit decently on a 36" wide shelf with an ~3" buffer off each corner. The RH would be placed down near one end of the shelf so that the RH and TT would face toward the opposite end. This would allow for access into the fueling terminal and one end of the double-ended yard.
Still designing those two areas. Just started reading two MR guides that I had packed away ("Freight Yards" and "Locomotive Servicing Terminals") to better understand those operations. I have a few other Kalmbach books on layout design but want to read these first.
Water Level RouteTom, I totally get if you have your heart set on a 130', but if they are available and you are open to them, the Walther's 110' will fit a Niagara. Same reason they had the overhang at the rear of the prototype tender makes them work on shorter turntables on our model railroads too. Here is my BLI Niagara w/ PT4 tender on my 110' Walthers turntable. It's snug, but it fits.
Thanks for that bit of information, Mike. Good to know!
Hi there. I went with the pre-assembled Walthers 90'. I had no space for the wider one, so my longer locos run straight through on a track beside the roundhouse. It can handle HO and HOn3 - I added a dual-gauge strip of track on top of it. it adds a lot of action to my somewhat smallish layout.
The turntable runs very well, indexed with DCC. I've read that the assembled model is better than the kit, but I don't know if that information is still up to date. I only need to calibrate it from time to time, which is a one push button operation.
IMG_20230221_103543 , on Flickr
Simon
While I know nothing about roundhouses, I appreciate a moderator starting a forum topic.
I'm a user-mod so I use and contribute to the forum - just like everyone else.
I am fascinated by the number of people that responded to this thread stating that they had no problems with the Walthers Cornerstone turntables.
I recall plenty of threads on here where people described the efforts required to make one of these work properly. Many concluded there was no way to make the DCC controls/indexing work correctly.
Now people seem to say these are a good option.
No real comment of conclusion, I just find this new information very interesting indeed.
SeeYou190 I am fascinated by the number of people that responded to this thread stating that they had no problems with the Walthers Cornerstone turntables. I recall plenty of threads on here where people described the efforts required to make one of these work properly. Many concluded there was no way to make the DCC controls/indexing work correctly. Now people seem to say these are a good option. No real comment of conclusion, I just find this new information very interesting indeed. -Kevin
There has been a lot of talk about the problems the Walthers TT had, however, on some other sites I read it was just a bad batch with the biggest complaint being Walthers did not want to address the issue. I have had issues with some Rapido products and Rapido promptly fixed them and they have been flawless ever since, I think if Walthers had treated their customers the same way the press would have been better for the product. and they would have sold a lot more TTs.
I did a quick non-scientific Internet search on the Walthers TT issues. It appears that the biggest troublemakers were the 90' kit version (plastic molding issues), and the 130' version (indexing and rotation issues). I think that indeed, there was a bad batch of the 130'.
I had the 90' kit and it was atrocious. My 110' rtr is not the DCC version although they offer an upgrade kit for it.
I bought the first built up 90' model with the index control, ready to go. It was not made for DCC. However, on the turntable track I added a DCC Specialties PSX-AR auto reverser and everything runs just fine since 2014. I bought the turntable probably when that model first came out (can't remember when that was).
Neal
I think part of the issue is there have been at least three different versions of the Walthers 130' turntable, maybe more.
It did have some growing pains along the way from what I recall.
My view is like this, turntables and roundhouses are expensive features no matter what brand and no matter kit or ready to drop in.
I have the Walthers operating swing bridge, and it is an OK product. But not really very "heavy duty" from a mechanical standpoint. In fact is uses the same drive kit as the original Walthers 90' turntable.
I figure the swing bridge will not see a lot of actual use, a turntable on the other hand should see a lot more.
So I am inclined to err on the side of caution and go with something a bit heavier duty.
My CMR turntable is powered by a Dayton gear reduction display motor with metal gears and gear case. Can't say for sure if CMR is still offering the same setup, bought my quite a while ago.
While we are talking about turntables, we should include this product:
https://nyrs.com/index.html
Expsenive but feature packed.
On another note, I mentioned earlier there does not seem much difference in size between the Walthers 130' and CMR 135', but there may be some conflicting info out there reguarding the Walthers product.
It would be interesting if some of you could measure the length of your turntable bridge.
In my nearly 18 years on this forum, Kevin, I have seen many complaints about the pre-2006 Build-up Indexed version that was NOT built-up...it was a kit. That kit had a separate motorizing kit. It was my first attempt, and only later did all the other complaints appear that the pits were out-of-round and other problems with nesting the motor into the drive components.
When the Built-up indexable version came, I grabbed one, and I must say I have had very good results with it. As the instructions are rather specific and careful, some were put off by the odd glitch or the requirement to keep the pit scrupulously free of any dust and debris, such as cat dander, dog hairs, bits of ground foam, ballast, etc. If you follow the instructions about powering the device, and if you can manage to get it indexed per the instructions (most do), it's a very good addition to a layout.
But, happily, Walthers has redone the earlier kit. I can't speak to it, especially if the bearing for the bridge pivot now works well, and if the motor and large pinion gear can be successfully added to the works below the pit so that it all meshes fully one fully turn, etc. Mine didn't.
I bought the 90'er, Tom, I think some time before purchasing my Paragon QSI Niagara. Later, I read that sometimes the roads would jack up the last axle or two on a PT tender so that the flanges cleared the ends of the radials ending on the pit lip, and still managed to turn the longer engines. I did that a couple of times on my 90' TT with the BLI Niagara, and it works!
Turntables and Roundhouses?
Turntables: I’ve always felt this should be easier than it is in HO scale…There aren’t many options when you start looking around for RTR turntables.
About Walther’s: The complaints Kevin is referring to are about the KITs from the early days. I have heard good things about the built-up Walther’s and that would be my go-to recommendation.
The other option is to modify an Atlas turntable and there have been several threads about how to use the mechanism while upgrading the realism of the pit and bridge. I would also look into Peco as a possibility but that does appear to be a kit…
Of course, your other option is to build something. I don’t recommend this unless you are up for a big challenge… I’ve scratch built two turntables. They are fussy, tricky things to build.
I’m sure the CMR kit is good – my buddy used one on his layout and it worked well…I don’t recommend the Diamond scale kits unless you are using them for parts (very fussy build). Avoid Walthers kits – the history here is pretty well documented……..
If you can find one that is the right size, opt for the Walther’s. I needed smaller turntables and thus ended up scratch building two of them. Depending on your track plan, remember not everything has to fit on your turntable… I turn the big stuff on the wye…
Roundhouse: As for round houses I had a Vollmer version on an old layout – Beautiful kit that can easily be modified to look more North American….I scratch built my current roundhouse/engine houses so I am of no help there….
Of course opinions vary.
Good luck with the project,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I have one of the DCC Walthers 130' turntables I'm going to be taking to the train show at North Platte Nebraska to sell in mid-April. along with a just-started modern roundhouse and three add-on kits. If you're anywhere near that area, you might stop by...
Meanwhile I need two more 90' turntables (probably go with Walthers, because the one I've had on my layout has always worked great), and one 75' that will probably be a Diamond Scale kit.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton