My understanding is that I would use a staging yard to "store" my trains out of sight, and then bring them onto the layout during an operating session? At the end of the session I would presumably run them back onto the staging yard out of sight?
Would it make sense to have another "regular" yard on the layout in full view where I did my classifcations during an operating session? Do I leave some cars here as my starting point for the next operating session?
Somewhat new to the operational side of things, trying to understand how people typically configure this.
Thanks in advance
A staging yard is nothing more than a place to store the trains that represent trains that are not on your layout, but will appear on your layout at some point.
A "regular" yard, or classification yard, is where your active classification of cars is part of the visible layout operations.
And example of the two used together. Train A comes out of staging, representing a train from Chicago. It stops at the regular yard called DeMoines. There, the "classification" locomotive breaks the train into two long cuts of cars, and combines each cut with other cars already in the yard to form two new trains. Then those two trains leave the regular yard, traverse the layout, and head into a different (or the opposite end of the first) staging yard that represents Omaha and Kansas City.
There are many more variations, but that's the basic difference.
You may not want to have both kinds of yards on your layout. It depends upon how you think you will operate it.
- Douglas
A staging yard in meant to represent all the areas not modeled on your layout. It allows our trains to run "beyond the basement walls." For example, my layout models the Madison (WI) Sub of the C&NW. The western-most town is Elroy, WI. The eastern-most town is Harvard, IL. To the west of Elroy is staging, which will represent both St. Paul and Mankato, MN. To the east of Harvard, the staging yard will represent Proviso Yard in Chicago. Many people, including me, have both staging yards and modeled yards on their layouts. Some even have their modeled yard right next to the staging yard.
One of the functions of a yard is to organize and sort cars for their next destination. Some cars may stay on the train and go to the next yard. Some may get switched to go on a local. Usually you want to keep the yard with fewer cars so you have as many empty tracks to sort the next arriving train(s).
As far as leaving cars in the yard for the next ops session, it really depends on where you leave off. You could have a train coming in on an arrival track, and that's where you stop. Or you could have that train broken down and new trains put together, and you stop there. Or all of your trains depart and the yard is empty to start the next session.
I hope this helps, and hopefully others will chime in as well who know more about ops than I do.
Scott
ChrisVA My understanding is that I would use a staging yard to "store" my trains out of sight, and then bring them onto the layout during an operating session? At the end of the session I would presumably run them back onto the staging yard out of sight?
Basically true, as others have mentioned.
Would it make sense to have another "regular" yard on the layout in full view where I did my classifcations during an operating session? Do I leave some cars here as my starting point for the next operating session? Somewhat new to the operational side of things, trying to understand how people typically configure this. Thanks in advance
For starters, yards are HUGE space killers so having an extra yard is something many simply don't have the space for. If they do, they probably have a large basement and understand much more how to design a laytout for operations.
But with staging, think of it as a real stage. Trains come from "off"stage (points east or south etc.) and run across the visible layout, per a schedule, and when they get to the other end, they go "off" stage. You can set up trains in staging for that schedule between operatoins. Then when ready, and maybe with other operators, run those trains per schedule. Some hot shots, others which may stop and drop off blocks of freight cars which are to be placed at industries. Others loaded moved and blocked for the next freight train. Or you may make up a freight rain and run it to points across the layout and off stage.
That's it in a nutshell.
[/quote]
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I run both freight and passenger service on my layout. I also have a staging yard the represents the rest of the world off my layout. And a local yard.
At the start of a session, with three engineersd and hopefully three conductors, a freight train leaves staging and proceeds into the local yard. It leaves its cars, picks up cars to go back, and goes back.
A sleeper train comes from staging, onto the north end, and proceeds south and shortly thereafter comes into staging. A local passenger proceeds north bound, unto a peninsula, swtiches and goes southward until it reaches staging. A third passenger goes north from staging and back into staging.
By then time this is done, the first operator has prepared to local freights to leave the local yard. A empty iron ore train comes out, goes to the mine branch and does its thing. The two local freights do their thing and return to the yard, and get broke down.
The passenger trains have the engines swapped to the other end of their trains by a big hand, usually mine, and the session concludes by the passenger service by repeated in reverse of the morning.
My layout is an around the wallos oval, with a double sided peninsula, with the local yard on one side, and the one town, (of three) on the other.
Hopefully, three crews are busy most of the time, and passenger trains are running both directions at the same time, co-operating to meet at the passing sidings.
Hope this helps.
Generally speaking, staging refers to "locations beyond the layout", so the tracks can hold a complete train, or just cars that are on "other rail lines (via interchange)", or at "unmodeled industries" or all the above. The staging can be hidden or visible, the degree of accessibility needed is driven by how much switching or "fiddling" (manually adding or removing cars) you plan to do. Just keep in mind that there will come a day when you need to perform maintenance on it.
A regular yard is where cars are received, classified (sorted, typically by destination or direction of next travel) and dispatched (put into a new out-bound train).
For those who want to focus on running complete trains, rotating multiple trains from staging to around the main layout and eventually back to staging is a common practice.
For those that want to create a "working model railroad", a common operational scenario is trains coming into the regular yard(s) with cars picked up from one or more locations on the layout (staging or industries on the layout), sorted, and dispatched out to be delivered to the next customer. Car routing can be determined by using switch lists or car-cards/waybills... or you can just drop or pick-up cars along the route as you choose. A yard master's work is never done, so there's always cars in the regular yard waiting for the next train or assignment.
You can operate in either mode - just run trains, or operate a working RR, whatever you're in the mood for at the moment. The staging can serve both purposes.
Jim
How much space do you have?
Years ago, I expanded my layout and found I had room for a small staging yard behind a new row of buildings, including a railroad station. I built what was intended to be a staging yard, but since it was visible, I added scenery and a couple of very low relief buildings behind. I found the area too nice to use for staging.
So, I expanded the layout again, and this time seriously planned for hidden staging.
I have yet another yard on my original layout, and I don't the interplay between yards and industries to be great fun.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have five staging yards, with three shown here...
...and another right above, here...
The fifth one is comprised of two tracks in another room.
Locomotives always stay on the layout, while freight and passenger cars are stored beneath the layout, as shown above, until they're needed.
I will make-up trains as needed, in the staging areas, and each, in-turn, will work their way around the layout, dropping-off and picking-up cars as needed, until they finally reach an appropriate staging yard at the end of their run. Some of those cars will be returned to their respective boxes, but some may be destined to go to another industry, which was not served by the train in which they were running. Those cars, along with others picked from the shelves below, will be made-up into an outbound train, and eventually, a locomotive will show up, and make it's trip to industries or interchanges along the way, until they reach another staging yard.I don't have enough room in the staging yards for storing all of my freight cars, let alone passenger and MoW equipment, so the staging areas are not usually allowed to fill-up completely.
My layout is not yet at a point where I can have an "operating system", and it's unlikely that there will ever be much in the way of a formal plan, as I'm not all that interested in those kinds of operation.
I do occasionally operate a staging yard as a switching yard, but would never consider including one as part of the sceniced portion of the layout, as they take-up too much room and aren't, to me, anyway, all that interesting visually.
Wayne
As others have mentioned, a staging yard represents the rest of the US rail network beyond your layout.
You can have a staging yard as a a separate yard or yards attached to your main tracks. Or you can use a junction yard between your model of a branch and the rest of your railroad. Or a staging yard can be an interchange. Or a staging yard can be car ferry or float operation.
On my layout, which follows a branch of the Reading Railroad, the junction of the branch with the Main Line is one staging yard. Then I have 2 PRR interchanges and a B&O interchange along the railroad that are other staging tracks. Finally at the extreme south end of the branch is a car ferry to New Jersey, that's also staging.
Most of my staging is visible or partially visible, so it forms a scenic element too.
The comment twas made that a yard is a huge space hog. That's where staging can help. If you start teh visible portion of the layout just past where your major yard would be, you can replace the major yard with a staging yard, which can be way more compact than a working yard. It doesn't need switching leads, or engine facilities or caboose tracks or any of that, just tracks to hold whatever number of trains you need to support your operation.
If your layout is a one man show, all it needs is a track or two for staging. The staging tracks can be hidden behind a low backdrop (6"-12" high) or line of trees or buildings. That way you can stand on a small step or ladder and see and reach over the low back drop, but when standing flat on the floor the trains are hidden.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Here is an example of a track plan with only one medium sized "visable" yard, and four various hidden staging yards.
This layout stages 25 trains "off stage" that then appear as per the operating schedule.
Sheldon
Sheldon, a side question. What type of software used for creating those track plan schematics?Thanks!
My old club's layout has a large six track main yard about 15' long and a slightly smaller five track staging yard about 10' long. The staging yard is off to the side of the layout and was primarily intended to be used for putting cars onto the rails. There are numerous storage shelves under the staging track where the boxes can be stored while the cars are on the layout. Both yards are visible and both yards are sceniced.
Based on my observations while I was still with the club, both yards were constantly active. There would be at least two guys running trains in each of the yards at any given time. In other words, the yards were well worth the space that they took up. Recognise that I am talking about a club layout where the goal was to allow as many operators on the tracks as was possible.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
ChrisVA Sheldon, a side question. What type of software used for creating those track plan schematics?Thanks!
It is my layout, and I designed it on paper, but I can't take credit for the great CAD drawing posted here. One of our forum members here, Robert Petrick, took my drawing and created what you see.
I am an old school hand draftsman by original training, I have a little bit of CAD experiance, Robert is a CAD master!
I toyed with some of the model track plan softwares years ago and did not like them, but that's me.
So to answer your question directly Robert did not use one of those "model train track plan" software packages, he used full blown engineering CAD software.
dehusmanAs others have mentioned, a staging yard represents the rest of the US rail network beyond your layout.
I would say that it represents the rest of the North American network or rail lines.
When I was working, we got railcars in from several american locations, and shipped to others.
I have a different type of staging yard. I have a port with carfloat and use this as staging as I can change out the floats.
Staging is easier to understand, and seems less strange, if it is compared to what layout design was like before the concept of staging (or holding tracks, as they were initially called, going back at least as far as Linn Westcott's famous "If I Had a Million" track plan of the early 1950s).
The old style layout was more or less a self contained universe. Any train that appeared on the layout was a train made up and classified on that layout's yard; any car on that layout was there to serve an industry that was on the layout. Any locomotive on the layout was serviced at the terminal/facility on that layout. It was as if every layout was an island. Where did the off road freight cars come from and go to? What trains handled purely bridge traffic? Did every passenger have to arrive and depart from depots that were actually on the layout itself (and thus a short walk away from each other)? Nobody gave that much thought. So much of a layout was taken up by yard or yards, or engine facilities, that that is why industrial buildings tended to be laughably tiny - including commercial kits.
Staging opened up the possibility of devoting the layout track plan to the money making parts of railroading -- the yards and engine facilities were that-a-way or this-a-way and didn't have to be modeled. All those railroads that were the source of off-road freight cars were similarly that-a-way or this-a-way.
Staging also opened up the ability to have a track plan that was continuous in appearance, but point to point in actual operation. Many track plans featured the same staging yard as being the extreme east end and extreme west end of the same railroad. Once a train arrived in staging it was done for that sessions but was ready to go for the next one.
A refinement on that form of staging -- often called "passive" staging -- is the "active" staging where the staging yard functions very much as a classification yard, but it isn't a modeled classification yard. An operator of the active staging yard classifies manually, having some cars leave the layout and others placed into new trains. Dr. Wayne describes something very like that. Some go further and add or remove motive power as well. A friend who is a prototype modeler with very delicate equipment uses a series of cassettes to add or remove cars from the layout, so it is manual in the sense a switcher isn't doing the work, but the cars and/or locomotives are not touched by hands. In a prior iteration of his operating scheme (he now uses JMRI) every car taken off the layout had its car card put at the front of the index box, and the last car card in the box would be taken out, so the number of cars taken off the layout never changed. This introduced an element of pure chance into the car population on the layout and sometimes it didn't work out as well as you'd hope (all these tank cars with no place to go!), but it did allow the usual extreme surplus of rolling stock to be cycled on and off the layout. Sometimes actual years would go by before a car would be back on the layout, which was just fine. He has plenty.
My own preference is for "active" staging which is out of sight of those in the main layout room, and by active I also prefer means of getting cars off the layout and a fresh supply coming on the layout. Rrebell's idea of a rail barge or car ferry can accomplish that too.
Dave Nelson
To expand on Dave's comments, many layouts years ago tried to model both "ends" of a line, requiring two yards, two engine terminals, two of everything as well as industries to serve.
Staging opens up the idea of only modeling one yard, one engine terminal, one major passenger terminal, leaving more room for industries and open mainline running.
My plan shown above does this, and as Dave described, much of the staging is thru staging. While the mainline is continuous the layout functions as point to point for operations. Or, including my wye junction and stub end staging, point to point to point.
One of my major goals is to only model most features one time and think of the visible layout in terms of a relatively short distance from end to end, no more than 50 or 75 miles, maybe less.
My staging is designed to be partly passive with the option of the stub end staging being active. But, the more staging you have, the less need there is for active staging.
Including trains that can be logically staged on the visible part of the layout, I will be able to stage over 30 trains. It is likely only passenger trains would be "recycled" during a single operating session.
One thing for me that distinguishes staging yards from 'regular' yards is the presence or the absence of yard leads. In general. Sure, some regular (visible, active) yards don't have any leads (due to space restrictions or simply poor planning) and some staging (hidden, passive) yards are beehives of activity.
A staging 'yard' can be as simple as a single passing siding. Visible, partly visible, hidden behind a clump of trees or buildings or ridges, or passing through a tunnel and subducting under the layout entirely. And a single passing siding can easily grow into a dually; or, add a ladder or a throat and pretty soon you end up with Bailey Yard Under the Lindens.
Sheldon's Atlantic Central is a good example . . . Potomac City Yard has adequate leads on both the east- and west ends, enabling full workability. None of his staging yards, as extensive as they are, has any lead at all.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
I think it's helpful to not think of staging "yards" as yards at all...
If the model railroad is a theatre stage, and trains are the actors, then "staging" is the wings backstage where the actors go when they're not in a scene.
There are no technical requirements for staging other than "parking space for trains" - it's not a "working" yard. Staging can just be a single track to allow a train to leave the layout.
A "real" yard, modelled on the layout, will have all the features and functions of a yard - for whatever that yard is required to do.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
cv_acr I think it's helpful to not think of staging "yards" as yards at all... If the model railroad is a theatre stage, and trains are the actors, then "staging" is the wings backstage where the actors go when they're not in a scene. There are no technical requirements for staging other than "parking space for trains" - it's not a "working" yard. Staging can just be a single track to allow a train to leave the layout. A "real" yard, modelled on the layout, will have all the features and functions of a yard - for whatever that yard is required to do.
Ok, agreed, they are not yards in a railroad sense and they need not look like yards. If you look at my track plan above, many of the staging tracks are more like passing sidings spread out along the hidden portion of the mainline. That portion of the mainline exists just for that purpose, and it was intentional to decentralize the staging.
And west and east are purposely separated to minimize the complexity of hidden movements, which will be monitored by both detection and cameras.
Staging is used differently on each layout, and whether or not to include a yard on the layout is up to you.
My layouts:
STRATTON AND GILLETTE #1 in N scale: No staging yards. three track yard on the layout. At this point in my life I could not afford enough locomotives for the visible part of the layoue.
SGRR #2 in N scale: Two huge staging yards representing points East and West beyond the layout. There was also a massive double ended classification yard on the layout.
SGRR #3 in N scale: One staging yard beneath the layout on a helix. The plan was to expand the layout with a yard and another staging yard, but this never happened.
SGRR #4 in HO scale: No staging yard, one storage track on the layout. I had a fold-down "fiddle track" for getting trains on and off the layout.
SGRR #5 in HO scale: Three hidden staging tracks in a tunnel, and a three track yard on the layout.
SGRR #6 in HO scale (planned): 14 staging tracks and a four track yard on the layout.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I think the term "staging yard" is a model railroad thing.
I don't have a "staging yard" or "track". I make up a train as I want it to be, and when I'm done with that train, I take it apart and make up a different one, usually going in the opposite direction.
Cars that are on the layout for the different industries arrive on one of these trains, and after switching, the "empties" or "loads" leave on one of these trains.
I'm a lone operator, works fine for me.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewi I think the term "staging yard" is a model railroad thing.
It's ABSOLUTELY a model railroad thing. It represents the rest of the world "beyond the basement".
Making up a train of random cars in your yard is perfectly well and good, but it's hardly realistic. For those that like to actually model realistic ops (and I know that's not everyone) then cars need logical places to go to and from.
mbinsewi I think the term "staging yard" is a model railroad thing. I don't have a "staging yard" or "track". I make up a train as I want it to be, and when I'm done with that train, I take it apart and make up a different one, usually going in the opposite direction. Cars that are on the layout for the different industries arrive on one of these trains, and after switching, the "empties" or "loads" leave on one of these trains. I'm a lone operator, works fine for me. Mike.
Mike, nothing wrong with that, we all figure out what works for us. I like all three, lone wolf running, display running for "model rail fanning" and operations sessions with a group. So I designed the kayout to support all three.
A big issue for me, even just running alone, is I prefer to minimize the handling of equipment.
So being able to "store" lots of already made up trains is a big plus for me even without operation session considerations.
The new layout will stage about 30 trains, and store most or all of my locomotives not already in use on those trains. Believe it or not, I don't have more equipment than the layout requires.
LastspikemikeSo it makes sense to fit a staging "layout" on a different level to the main operating level. If you have space for a modest helix or two.
I had a helix on my third layout going to staging, and my friend Randy had one on his NORFOLK SOUTHERN layout.
I will never have another helix to staging. My next layout will have staging behind the backdrop at layout level.
SeeYou190 Lastspikemike So it makes sense to fit a staging "layout" on a different level to the main operating level. If you have space for a modest helix or two. I had a helix on my third layout going to staging, and my friend Randy had one on his NORFOLK SOUTHERN layout. I will never have another helix to staging. My next layout will have staging behind the backdrop at layout level. -Kevin
Lastspikemike So it makes sense to fit a staging "layout" on a different level to the main operating level. If you have space for a modest helix or two.
Same here. If one looks at my plan, some staging is below other trackwork, but it gets there without a helix. Most staging is behind/under rear scenery at the same basic level as the rest of the layout.
This is particularly important because there are cutoff tracks that connect the staging to the mainline at various places to simulate various connections to the outside world, not just at the ends of the visible mainline.
I used simple one turn helixes to change elevation and increase the illusion of distance on the visible part of the layout, but based on past experiance I would not use a long multi turn helix to connect levels for hidden staging or a multi deck layout.
Built one multi deck layout, never going there again.
My scenes are deep, with 4' deep benchwork being typical. Visible trackage is near the front, staging trackage is behind or under rear scenic features/structures.
Access is provided various ways, but benchwork is all strong enough to support me. So leaning or climbing on benchwork is not an issue when required.
No foam construction......
Having done this before, I know how to build a layout that can be accessed from lift outs, rear aisles, and overhead work platforms.
I am simply not satisfied with the look of the 2' deep scene idea that is popular today.
My very first layout was 5' deep and effectively 22' feet long with hidden staging in the rear at layout level, accessed by a rear aisle, hidden by a mountain - that was in 1968 - staging is not a new idea for me.
My staging tracks are on the lower level and all trains head up or down via a two track helix.
I have 2 sets of staging yard tracks. First one is my South Staging all staged trains head out in an east direction...
This is my North Staging and trains head out west and proceed up the helix.
This is my freight yard. It has a double ladder and can be accessed from both ends. During my operating sessions, once the dispatcher routes the train to the yard limits, the yardmaster takes control and will route the train into the yard...
Staging is just what it means, at least to me and everyone that operates my layout. When we have the next op session, trains are already in place and each engineer has a card with their job.
Been working well for me and my friends...
Hope this helps...
Neal
The idea of hidden tracks doesn't make any sense. We all know where the tracks are. Hiding staging behind a screen or after a tunnel entrance can't possibly add anything to the overall illusion.
Hold that thought.
Bearing in mind the whole process of model railroading is not rational but theatrical.
There you just answered your own question. If you have ever been to an actual theater, there is a "backstage". The area behind and to the sides of the stage where actors go when they are no performing, where sets and props not being used in the current scene are stored and where actors go when they exit the current scene. Its the origin of the phrase, "waiting in the wings".
Model railroad staging is EXACTLY the same thing. It is where the trains go when not on stage. Just like actor's dressing rooms are not on the stage.
I've been rethinking a staging track, or two, for the last year. Just haven't figured out how I would do it.
I didn't have the space when building the layout, on the end of the basement, but I could rearrange some shelving, move things around, and possibly have 2 tracks along one wall. That would be enough for my small layout.
My trains are usually 15 to 20 cars long, and I'd want the tracks to form a wye where they leave the layout, so I could pull a train out, in either direction, and, I wouldn't have to add scenery to any of this, just bare track on a bare bench top.
Of course if I did build this, it would be a one ended afair, so I would have to back the trains on the staging, or, I suppose I could pull the train in, remove the loco and put it back on the other end. Thinking out loud here.
What I do now, after a train has set out and picked up cars from the interchange track, I park the train out of sight on my hidden track, and then run the switcher, to distribute the cars.
Before I leave the layout for the night, I pull the train out of the hidden area, so I don't forget it's parked there, when I go back to the layout, which has happened on an occasion, or, possibly two.
Decision decisions, by the time I pull this off, it will be time to dismantle the layout for a move to a house without so many stairs!
Lastspikemike This thread certainly describes well the part about staging I don't understand. Combined with the other controversial area of double decking a layout the difficulty with dedicated staging becomes more clear for me. The idea of hidden tracks doesn't make any sense. We all know where the tracks are. Hiding staging behind a screen or after a tunnel entrance can't possibly add anything to the overall illusion. Having "staging" at layout level just a regular visible part of the layout and fully scenicked and integrated is the only rational thing to do with it. Bearing in mind the whole process of model railroading is not rational but theatrical. Destinations, distance, speed, details are all easily handled by the imagination and must be whether you realize you do this or not. Viewing model trains improves at higher elevations than traditional train tables were set at. Table height is just too low (unless you're five) except when handling the cars and locomotives. Ideal height for staging is a lot lower than ideal height for viewing. Putting staging at viewing height just uses up very valuable scenicked layout space. Why do that to yourself?
This thread certainly describes well the part about staging I don't understand.
Combined with the other controversial area of double decking a layout the difficulty with dedicated staging becomes more clear for me.
The idea of hidden tracks doesn't make any sense. We all know where the tracks are. Hiding staging behind a screen or after a tunnel entrance can't possibly add anything to the overall illusion. Having "staging" at layout level just a regular visible part of the layout and fully scenicked and integrated is the only rational thing to do with it. Bearing in mind the whole process of model railroading is not rational but theatrical.
Destinations, distance, speed, details are all easily handled by the imagination and must be whether you realize you do this or not.
Viewing model trains improves at higher elevations than traditional train tables were set at. Table height is just too low (unless you're five) except when handling the cars and locomotives.
Ideal height for staging is a lot lower than ideal height for viewing.
Putting staging at viewing height just uses up very valuable scenicked layout space.
Why do that to yourself?
Well Mike, if you don't get, or don't like it, don't do it.
It does not use up my scenery space, I have scenery and structures over top of my staging tracks, without making them so dramaticly lower than other trackage that I need a helix or "second deck", in fact some staging tracks are higher than some visible tracks.
I tried the high bench work thing, I did not like it. To each their own.
I don't need my staging tracks down low or fully accessible, they are storage for trains that are off stage. I do not do a bunch of 5 finger switching of trains in staging. They get made up in advance of operating sessions out on the visible yard, then they get parked.
Like Dave said, you answered your own question, if it's not for you, fine.
Everybody has different goals for this hobby.
Seems to me a lot of people these days do not understand the idea of fluid track elevations on a model train layout.