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In Need of Curved Turnouts

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In Need of Curved Turnouts
Posted by kenben on Monday, August 26, 2019 12:29 AM

Iʻm building my first HO layout using Peco track and I need to fine the right curved turnouts for it. Two are switching in from a 24" radius to a 22" radius and one switching out from a 22" radius to a 24" radius. Most likely all 3 are the same except for left and right switching. What and where can I find these electrofrog curved turnouts? What are my options?

THX

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Posted by "JaBear" on Monday, August 26, 2019 2:49 AM

Here's an option if you're using Peco Code 100.

https://peco-uk.com/collections/turn-out-crossing-plans?page=2

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, August 26, 2019 9:04 AM

kenben

Iʻm building my first HO layout using Peco track and I need to fine the right curved turnouts for it. Two are switching in from a 24" radius to a 22" radius and one switching out from a 22" radius to a 24" radius. Most likely all 3 are the same except for left and right switching. What and where can I find these electrofrog curved turnouts? What are my options?

THX 

Peco HO ST244 Code 100 Right Hand Curved Turnout Track

- Inside Radius: 17-1/4" (43.8cm) 

- Outside Radius: 19-7/8"

 

Peco HO SLE86 Code 100 Track Electrofrog Curved Turnout Right Hand

- Inside radius 30"

- Outside radius 60"

 

Peco HO SL8376 Code 83 Track Insulfrog #7 Curved Right Hand Turnout

 

- Inside radius 36"

- Outside radius 60"

 

Looks like neither are in the range you are looking for.  Maybe you want to hunt for Walthers Shinohara #6 on eBay - they are code 83.  Shinohara for code 100.

 

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by cuyama on Monday, August 26, 2019 10:13 AM

kenben
Iʻm building my first HO layout using Peco track and I need to fine the right curved turnouts for it. Two are switching in from a 24" radius to a 22" radius and one switching out from a 22" radius to a 24" radius

No curved turnout matches a true curve exactly because of the points and frog. So you can't "drop-in" a curved turnout and have it fit exactly in a 24" radius curve, if that's what you are trying to do. 

Instead, you would need to design the the track plan around the curved turnout. This would be easiest with flex track.

Good luck with your layout.

Byron

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Posted by kenben on Monday, August 26, 2019 10:23 AM

Iʻm using code 83 flex track and I know I can "fudge" on the actual radius. Just need something doable. All turnouts are electrofrog.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, August 26, 2019 10:49 AM

kenben

Iʻm using code 83 flex track and I know I can "fudge" on the actual radius. Just need something doable. All turnouts are electrofrog.

I've listed the code 83 Peco curved turnout specs, and they appear to be way out of what you are listing.

But if you don't have to have Peco 100%, I see Walthers code 83 curved #6 on fleabay.

Walthers #6 curved are nomially 24" outer and 20" inner radius.  People have reported measuring the inner is really a bit less, closer to 19 or less inches.

Basically the point is Walthers curved turnouts have inner and outer radii that a much closer together, nominally 4" apart.  Peco, OTOH, have inner/outer radii which are much more different, such as the code 83 #7 curved (outer 60", inner 36"), which is way-off from what you are trying for.

RE: Walthers #6 curved, it appears it is referred to as #6 1/2 curved but the specs seem to be same, 24 outer, 20 inner (nominal).

The Walthers #7 should be nominal 28 outer and 24 inner radius if that is also useeful.

For what it's worth, Walthers has manufactured turnouts listed somethings as DC type but around 15-20 years ago, they retooled and offered what they labeled as DCC friendly versions.  They have the frog isolated and the point rails are isolated from each other.  If you run DCC, that may be useful for you.  OTOH, some DCC hobbyists have reported using the older "DC" versions on DCC layouts with no issues.

There is no reason you shouldn't be able to use non-Peco turnouts if they fit the need.  I mix brands where needed and have no issues.

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by hornblower on Monday, August 26, 2019 11:53 AM

There is also the Fast Tracks build it yourself option!  All you need is a copy of a scale drawing (don't use the original) of whatever custom turnout you need to build, glue the PC ties directly to the drawing copy, then shape, lay and solder your rails using an NMRA track gauge.  I have done this with curved turnouts, wyes, and constant radius diverging route turnouts (to enter/exit a helix).  It takes a little patience but is not all that difficult.  Better yet, your rolling stock will roll through these turnouts better than they do through commercially made turnouts.  Best yet, when someone points to your turnout and asks, "Who makes that?", your answer will be, "I do!"

Hornblower

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Posted by kenben on Monday, August 26, 2019 12:17 PM

Yes Iʻm looking at Walthers #6 curved turnouts. Wiring will be different than the electrofrog Peco turnouts. Everything is DCC on this layout..

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, August 26, 2019 2:00 PM

As RioGrande mentioned, the Walthers curved turnout is your best bet for a drop in fit, then you will need to adjust the tracks around it to fit.

I believe Walthers used to make these electrofrog, in the days before DCC was common, but I'm not sure.  If so, they would probably only be available on ebay or something similar.

Currently produced product, which is much easier to find, is insulfrog, known as "For DCC or DC" on the Walthers packaging.

- Douglas

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, August 26, 2019 2:32 PM

kenben

Yes Iʻm looking at Walthers #6 curved turnouts. Wiring will be different than the electrofrog Peco turnouts. Everything is DCC on this layout.. 

 

If you can find a "DCC" ready version of the Walthers #6 curved, it will be the easiest to wire.

I believe the effect will be basically the same as the Peco electrofrog if you energize the frog - polarity can be controlled using an appropriate switch machine support that.

All of Walthers DC turnouts were similar to the Peco electrofrog - they had solid metal rail from the end right through to the frog.  The DCC friendly versions still have a metal frog - but it is isolated as are the point rails from each other.  The frog an still be made "live" or electrofrog as long as it is wired that way.

For what it's worth, I am planning to use mostly Peco electrofrog turnouts on my next layout, but in a few cases, I will be using DCC friendly Walthers #8 curve turnouts in places where the geometry fits best.  I bought two of them last spring before the #8 curved Walthers DCC ready became much more difficult to find.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by jjdamnit on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 5:16 PM

Hello All,

Take a look at this thread...

DIY Flex Track

I used this method to modify a stock PECO curved turnout to fit my needs.

Pelle Søeborg used this method to modify turnouts on one of his layouts. This was the subject of a MR article, I cannot remember the exact issue. 

Hope this helps.

 

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by dante on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 3:45 PM

The Walthers/Shinohara code 83 curved turnouts have curves that differ by 6, not 4. The larger curves are stated correctly. And the radii are true through the turnout. Trust me-I have many. 

sol
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Posted by sol on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:09 PM
Tillig, a European brand, do a lot of curved turnouts Code 83 https://www.tillig.com/eng/Elite_Gleissysteme_Weichen_Kreuzungen-Seite-3.html
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 29, 2019 6:36 AM

dante

The Walthers/Shinohara code 83 curved turnouts have curves that differ by 6, not 4. The larger curves are stated correctly. And the radii are true through the turnout. Trust me-I have many. 

Yep, which is why I labeled the radius in my posts as "nominal". 

It is generally known the inner radius is smaller than is labeled, although figures reported seem to vary depending on who measures it.  I haven't found the mis-reported inner radius to be an issue with fitting the turnouts into layouts I have designed an built in two past occasions either.  It seems to be somewhat more of an academic thing.

The salient point here to the OP, kenben, is Walthers offered curved turnouts which are closest to his needs, and they can still be found on the secondary market.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, August 29, 2019 10:26 AM

I decided to run a Walthers 948-8826 Curved Turnout up on my CAD just for kicks.  The picture below is what I came up with using the Walthers picture from their web site and should be accurate within a 1/16”.
 
 
The inside curve radius is 24”(red curved line) to the point of the Frog, by canging the inside curve center to full length it changes to 26” between the Frog and the end of the rails.
 
The outside radius is a constant 36” (green curved line).
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 29, 2019 10:36 AM

The red line in the photo looks substantially sharper than the centerline through the inner curve.

Most report the Walthers curved #8 inner radius in the 28 to 30 inch range when checking it for actual radius vs. the reported 32 inches.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, August 29, 2019 10:44 AM

I didn’t measure the actual center at the frog but by eyeball it’s not off more than 1/32” at the frog for 24” radius from the points.  The curve radius changes between the frog and the end of the rails.  The outside radius is true from rail end to rail end.

 

EDIT:

I went back to my drawing and I missed it by eyeball.  The track center line measures .038" toward the outside rail at the frog point.
 

 
Mel
 
 
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I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 29, 2019 10:50 AM

KenBen,

.

I suggest you find, and make fit, Walthers/Shinohara #7 curved turnouts. Look for the new "DCC Friendly" versions.

.

I have used, and intend to use, #7 W/S turnouts with no problems up to heavy 4-8-2 locomotives. The radius measurements of these turnouts are pretty close to what you want. They should fit with your DCC wiring scheme just fine.

.

-Kevin

.

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, August 29, 2019 3:40 PM

Well guys you can’t go by my CAD drawings for the correct radii of Walthers curved turnouts.  While I was doing some further checking of other Walthers pictures I discovered they don’t necessarily use the correct pictures in their advertising pages.
 
I found three pictures of the 948-8826 turnout, all with the same part number, all are different sizes.
 
I laid out one of them to compare and it measures inside radius (diversion) 17” with the outside radius (non diversion) 24”.  This turnout has perfect radius on both tracks.
 
To get the correct scale dimensions for my drawings I use the between the rails measurement for HO (.6605” NMRA) as reference and go from there.  That is the only reference that always remains the same on all HO track.
 
The pictures are different when overlaid but look like the same turnout.   I guess the advertisers don’t always use the correct pictures, just close enough to sell.   If they don’t Photoshop their pictures they sell a 17” x 24” curved turnout under some part number.
 
All of my Atlas drawings were made using an Atlas turnout or crossing unlike the Walthers, I do not have access to any Walthers track anymore because of the closure of the Bakersfield Hobby Shop about 7 years ago.  I have a good stock of Atlas track to use as gobys.
 
EDIT:
 
I use track center line for dimensions in all of my track drawings.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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