trainnut1250 Brian, I know this will seem irresponsible but if it were me I would skip the edge protection for now. You can always install it later. My helix has been in operation for at least 12 years now and I have never had a train derail and fall off of the helix yet. If you aren't sure, put some temporary guards up and run some trains to see what they do. Having the guards in place does complicate clearing derailments if they aren't removeable. Guy
Brian,
I know this will seem irresponsible but if it were me I would skip the edge protection for now. You can always install it later. My helix has been in operation for at least 12 years now and I have never had a train derail and fall off of the helix yet. If you aren't sure, put some temporary guards up and run some trains to see what they do.
Having the guards in place does complicate clearing derailments if they aren't removeable.
Guy
I'd take complicated over damaged or ruined expensive trains any day. Skip edge protection at your own peril.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Last Bridge Installed
Took the day off yesterday (mother's day) and celebrated with brunch for a local mother/neighbor.
The previous 2-3 days were spent working on my 'used door' that will allow for a viewing window into my helix, AND building the last of my bridges between the shed's interior and the helix structure. Here is that top loop of track just 'hanging out' that needed a bridge,..
I had been waiting for a 6" channel piece of alum to show up at my metal scrap yard, but that didn't seem to be happening. So I paid a visit to the retailer to see if he might have some 'cut offs'. He did, but only in the 5" & 7" widths, which I never knew existed. I bought a piece of 7" channel as I needed to make a considerable turn in that section of track in order to aim towards the side of the shed as it entered the room. Even at that width I still had to fashion the bridge in two pieces to accommodate my curve in the broadest manner.
I decided to bond the two sections of alum channel with epoxy and epoxied backing plates. At first I was very satisfied with the epoxy idea, but upon a little twisting, etc to get the bridge into place it BROKE apart. Wow, I never realized that epoxy was that brittle ! ...back to the drawing board. I had to clean all of that epoxy remnants off, and prep the surface for good old reliable polyurethane. Finally got it all glued back together, let it set up overnight, and added a few screws for good measure.
Lined the bottom of the alum channel with my 'vinyl-flooring samples' for both leveling adjustments at the helix end, and noise reduction.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
BTW: Excellent progress - Keep up the god work.
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Bungee Cord, Bungee Flat-strap Safety Devices
An idea popped into my head yesterday evening as I was closing up work on the helix. Why not some sort of vertical 'strapping' down the inner edges of the helix roadbeds , at set distances around the perimeter,...maybe some sort of bungee cord or bungee strap? Might not even have to be 'bungee', but just fabric strapping?
They might not require attachment at each level, but rather just at the top and bottom,...perhaps just easy clip on at one end. They could then be all unclipped when desiring to do a track cleaning exercise.
Might be cheaper and less installation hassle than those metal mini brackets.
Ideas...suggestions??
Looks like 5 to me.
You want to see some helix action, check out Rich Weyand's old N&W layout, though it's N scale, it has 12 1/2 laps in a big oval/figure 8 shape, and while the helix itself doesn;t have dozens of tracks, there ARE 6 levels of staging feeding in to the helix. I think this was in the 2002 issue fof MRP, and there are pictures on page 42 of Tony Koester's multi-deck layouts book.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I think I see more than 5?
Doughless railandsail Safety String I found one of those references I had seen,....HERE It has a "DOT approved guardrail" consisting of a single yellow stretched nylon mason string to keep the trains off the floor (It works quite well). I went through all the various options for a safety rail system. Perhaps ripped masonite strips, narrow pieces of plexy glass, some type of metal strips, but they all were expensive, hard to install and not easily removable for doing maintenance or for re-railing rolling stock. The string costs about $4.00 for a roll and I used 2" pan head sheet metal screws for uprights. I also used small screw eyelets to run between the wood uprights. The "railing" height is about 1-1/8" and it does have a learning curve on getting it really tight and keeping it that way while you tie it. Get out your Boy Scout handbook on knot tying! I figure the whole railing for an 8 tier helix cost me less than $10. I did some trials on how effective the railing is at keeping trains off the floor and I literally could not get a car to jump it! They just bounced off and stayed on the helix. Jim Leighty Looks like that would work. I guess a possible downside is that if a flatcar derails the string might be too high. Another would be that any car could hit its corner on an eyebolt post and stop the entire train abruptly, boogering up a coupler, ladder, or stirrup to itself or to multiple cars if the trailing cars smash into each other. That would not be as much of a risk if the guardrail was a solid smooth surface that would allow the derailed car to slide to a gentle rest, like automobile highway guardrails. The person who built that guardrail may not have experienced that problem.
railandsail Safety String I found one of those references I had seen,....HERE It has a "DOT approved guardrail" consisting of a single yellow stretched nylon mason string to keep the trains off the floor (It works quite well). I went through all the various options for a safety rail system. Perhaps ripped masonite strips, narrow pieces of plexy glass, some type of metal strips, but they all were expensive, hard to install and not easily removable for doing maintenance or for re-railing rolling stock. The string costs about $4.00 for a roll and I used 2" pan head sheet metal screws for uprights. I also used small screw eyelets to run between the wood uprights. The "railing" height is about 1-1/8" and it does have a learning curve on getting it really tight and keeping it that way while you tie it. Get out your Boy Scout handbook on knot tying! I figure the whole railing for an 8 tier helix cost me less than $10. I did some trials on how effective the railing is at keeping trains off the floor and I literally could not get a car to jump it! They just bounced off and stayed on the helix. Jim Leighty Looks like that would work. I guess a possible downside is that if a flatcar derails the string might be too high. Another would be that any car could hit its corner on an eyebolt post and stop the entire train abruptly, boogering up a coupler, ladder, or stirrup to itself or to multiple cars if the trailing cars smash into each other. That would not be as much of a risk if the guardrail was a solid smooth surface that would allow the derailed car to slide to a gentle rest, like automobile highway guardrails. The person who built that guardrail may not have experienced that problem.
Safety String
I found one of those references I had seen,....HERE
It has a "DOT approved guardrail" consisting of a single yellow stretched nylon mason string to keep the trains off the floor (It works quite well).
I went through all the various options for a safety rail system. Perhaps ripped masonite strips, narrow pieces of plexy glass, some type of metal strips, but they all were expensive, hard to install and not easily removable for doing maintenance or for re-railing rolling stock. The string costs about $4.00 for a roll and I used 2" pan head sheet metal screws for uprights. I also used small screw eyelets to run between the wood uprights. The "railing" height is about 1-1/8" and it does have a learning curve on getting it really tight and keeping it that way while you tie it. Get out your Boy Scout handbook on knot tying! I figure the whole railing for an 8 tier helix cost me less than $10. I did some trials on how effective the railing is at keeping trains off the floor and I literally could not get a car to jump it! They just bounced off and stayed on the helix. Jim Leighty
I went through all the various options for a safety rail system. Perhaps ripped masonite strips, narrow pieces of plexy glass, some type of metal strips, but they all were expensive, hard to install and not easily removable for doing maintenance or for re-railing rolling stock. The string costs about $4.00 for a roll and I used 2" pan head sheet metal screws for uprights. I also used small screw eyelets to run between the wood uprights. The "railing" height is about 1-1/8" and it does have a learning curve on getting it really tight and keeping it that way while you tie it. Get out your Boy Scout handbook on knot tying! I figure the whole railing for an 8 tier helix cost me less than $10. I did some trials on how effective the railing is at keeping trains off the floor and I literally could not get a car to jump it! They just bounced off and stayed on the helix.
Jim Leighty
Looks like that would work. I guess a possible downside is that if a flatcar derails the string might be too high. Another would be that any car could hit its corner on an eyebolt post and stop the entire train abruptly, boogering up a coupler, ladder, or stirrup to itself or to multiple cars if the trailing cars smash into each other. That would not be as much of a risk if the guardrail was a solid smooth surface that would allow the derailed car to slide to a gentle rest, like automobile highway guardrails. The person who built that guardrail may not have experienced that problem.
Jim Leighty commented that the other methods were hard to install and expensive.
The string method may cost less but it looks like it would take a good deal of time to install as well, at least on the helix shown.
What about thin cardboard and hot glue for cheap, fast and effective?
And holy crap, did anyone notice Jim L's helix has five (5) [count'em] tracks in his helix? That's crazy!
Safety String Brackets
Get some more "L" brackets, and mount them upside down to the subroadbed. Run your string through the top hole in the bracket and on to the next bracket.
Sort of like these,...one leg glued to underside at outer edge of roadbed, and other leg sticking up. I think they would be tall enough.
http://Wideskall 1.5" inch Corner Brace Angle Repair Bracket
railandsail Safety String I found one of those references I had seen,....HERE It has a "DOT approved guardrail" consisting of a single yellow stretched nylon mason string to keep the trains off the floor (It works quite well). I went through all the various options for a safety rail system. Perhaps ripped masonite strips, narrow pieces of plexy glass, some type of metal strips, but they all were expensive, hard to install and not easily removable for doing maintenance or for re-railing rolling stock. The string costs about $4.00 for a roll and I used 2" pan head sheet metal screws for uprights. I also used small screw eyelets to run between the wood uprights. The "railing" height is about 1-1/8" and it does have a learning curve on getting it really tight and keeping it that way while you tie it. Get out your Boy Scout handbook on knot tying! I figure the whole railing for an 8 tier helix cost me less than $10. I did some trials on how effective the railing is at keeping trains off the floor and I literally could not get a car to jump it! They just bounced off and stayed on the helix. Jim Leighty
Looks like that would work. I guess a possible downside is that if a flatcar derails the string might be too high. Another would be that any car could hit its corner on an eyebolt post and stop the entire train abruptly, boogering up a coupler, ladder, or stirrup to itself or to multiple cars if the trailing cars smash into each other. That would not be as much of a risk if the guardrail was a solid smooth surface that would allow the derailed car to slide to a gentle rest, like automobile highway guardrails.
The person who built that guardrail may not have experienced that problem.
- Douglas
Cantilevered Roadbed & maybe Plywood Roadbed
There is something positive to say about cantilevered roadbed in the helix. It makes it very easy to get to derailments, clean the track, etc. And it does not require excessive height clearances between levels. Have a look here at my AutoMax car in my helix,...(and I believe the tallest car on the market in HO)....
My roadbed-to-roadbed clearance height is 4”, so I lose 1/4” due to thickness of roadbed, and about the thickness of a nickle coin for the thickness of the L-bracket supporting the roadbed. Still plenty of room.
If I were to have used 1/2” plywood for my helix roadbed, and those same L-brackets I would still have plenty of room. And I could have used that same thickness of metal (of the L-brackets) to join the quarter circle sections of plywood roadbed together,...no additional thickness and no complicated biscuit cuts, etc.
Thin clear acrylic or plexiglass sheets cut into strips would probably be the most common solution.
Stringlining is a problem for long trains when going around tight turns. They get get pulled sideways nearly as much as forwards. Your radius is probably broad enough for that to not be a huge problem.
Safety Catchment
Somewhere I recall seeing some sort of a safety line/wire/string being rigged up. Seems as though it was pretty simple/cheap/effective.
Does anyone know where that reference might be??
What probably concerns me most is the long trains falling to the inside of the inner curve should the train stall out, then need to restart while in the helix. I once had a very bad experience with a brand new BLI articulated loco that was pulling a long string of cars around a tight turn on my old layout. When I went to restart the train I put too much power to it and the string of cars pulled the loco off the tracks onto a concrete floor. I was devastated, but fortunately the damage was not as bad as I expected.
All right Brian. First test runs. I'm starting to believe!
Still checking in from time to time.
Mike.
My You Tube
Not feeling so well yesterday morning, so everything got pushed back a day.
First day I got the Athearn diesel running on all the tracks except the very upper loop that has yet to get its bridge (scrap yard not cooperating with the correct piece yet...ha..ha). It was strictly a DC powered test, and the power was transmitted thru the track itself that has all the joiners soldered. Power was consistent top to bottom.
I decided to solder all the joints in the helix tracks as I was just not comfortable with the real & potential kinks that were/could occur in the curved tracks.
I got one of my older steam engines out to run as well, and it found a few little spots that needed 'fine tuning'. I ran both of the locos up and down a number of times, and at slow speeds to find any little glitches. It was a productive test. I found a few spots that had a very small elevation change over a track joint, and fixed those.
I think you can see I have considerable height between levels to get at the trains,...its only about 4". As a result of the 'cantilevered' support of the roadbed I also have very easy access to the trains for rerailing etc, ...and the track for cleaning etc.
I've also solder in all my feeder wires for DCC operation. Have not installed the buss wires yet.
Something, but I don't know what yet.
The double track work is going slower than I anticipated, but I am trying to get it really right. I have already discovered a few spots where I had to 'relevel' the track roadbed. And my hopes of skipping every-other support bracket for the double track portion is fading.
So part double track, part single track? Are you going to put any side cards to keep derailed cars from falling over the edge to peril?
Laying the Double Track portions
I made a different 'fixture' to assist with the laying of the double track portion. Since I am NOT gluing the track down, but rather screwing it, I thought why not have a 'guide' that could be temporarily attached to the helix roadbed itself. Why not simply cut a circular strip of material that would fit between the double track's ties, and just make sure to center that strip on my roadbed width.
I made my 'guide' of a scrap piece of masonite I had left over from cutting out the roadbed.
I get a consistent 3" spacing between the tracks, and its quite easy to simply lay the tie ends against the guide for a nice smooth curve.
Then move that 'guide' around to the next segment. BTW I soldered 2 pieces of flex track together before bringing them into the helix. The next 6 foot segment was added inside.
I almost wish I had used something other than the masonite when I consider that I had to do double the cutting (2 layers of 1/8"), then all the gluing of that double layer, then all the sealing of the masonite.
All in the effort to get a rigid, THIN layer of roadbed.
Sry, I missed that you were using masonite. I used 1/2" cabinet grade plywood and they worked great. Good fortune on your build!
BuchananBucks My Powerhead screw suggestion above gets you more clearance and no washers needed. Dan
My Powerhead screw suggestion above gets you more clearance and no washers needed.
Dan
I looked at those powerheads you spoke of and noted 2 concerns,..
1) they didn't appear to have a shorter versions,...like 3/8" long I'm using to attach to masonite and alum roadbed?2) it appeared in several photos that they had a broadening of their shaft just under the head?3) they certainly had a nice big dia head
Your helix is coming along nicely!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Work in progress
Still a mess, but here are some construction photos. I'm pleased with the access I am going to have to the 2 turnouts I will have in the helix structure, and the open side access I will have to the trains running in the helix.
And then my upper loop track that hangs in space as it has no bridge structure yet,...
Viewing & Access Door
Got a little delayed this past weekend with some house projects, and a trip to the west to buy a glass paneled storm door for my helix structure. If you recall my older neighbor had said he would like to view into the helix innards without having to duck under to get inside. And I was going to build some sort of access door to get at the 3 way staging turnout. So this door is going to solve both of those problems,...just have to do some custom cutting and framing...
Fit in here and opens out to the left,..
I used #4 X 1/2" wood screws and a thin washer (#6 I think) and the screw nearly goes through the washer - but not quite. This makes the smallest possible protrusion above the ties. I also used code 100 atlas flex track. This all worked G-R-E-A-T! I soldered all my joints, and cut my isolation joints a ways away from the soldered joints with a dremel wheel after the track was down.
Brian, great solution for your situation, but not new at all. When I was a child, and my father set up our rather large Christmas Garden, 5x18, he used flat head wood screws to hold down TruScale wood roadbed track for easy removal and reuse the next year.
Sheldon
The next morning I was rethinking that countersunk screw and washer situation being relatively 'fixed', and I do recall trying a pan headed screw while I was at my ACE store. The pan head screw was just a bit high when used with the washer.
My contractor friend was over that morning, and he just casually picked up a small screw I had laying out in a small pile of candidates I had been working on. It turned out to be a #6 with a slightly bigger head than a #6 pan head. i decided to go look at what other screws might be used WITHOUT the washer,...have the head of the screw span the two ties. I went and looked at Home Depot & Lowes and found almost exclusively pan headed screws in #6 size. They had bigger headed screws in the next size up,..the #8, .....but those are a bit to big to fit comfortably between the ties.
I went back to my ACE store and found a screw identical to that one my friend had found casually that morning. Its a 'truss head', #6. I bought a box of them and came home to give them a try. This is now my go-to screw for the hidden tracks in the helix,..both on the masonite roadbed, and the metal bridge structures. Washers no longer needed.
Here it is on my helix bridge to staging,...
I had already gone forward with my washer/screw idea on my double cross and two ramps feeding the helix,...
I went back and changed that to the new screw idea,...no washers
Had trouble finding a #6 pancake head screw?