I thought that fading was called "weathering"...
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I have several tiers of lighting, due in part to experimenting. If I need them, I can turn them all on.
The first is the recessed overhead lighting in the suspended ceiling. It's flourescent tudes, but all are 5000K color temp based on the recommendation of the late Boone Morrison. Boone was an architect and very familiar with lighting. The almost official standard is GE Chroma 50 tubes, but most major tube makers have a version that is rated at 5000K and they are very similar. Pick the cheapest ones rated 5000K and you'll be fine. You can use other color temps, but higher ones will be bluer and lower temp ones will be yellower. Interior designers work with 5000K so it will generally provide the most realistic rendering of color. I rarely use these nowadays as it requires about a kilowatt of power to run them.
I have a number of track lights. I'm down to about a dozen, but there are a total of about 40 available. Like Dave mentioned, some of the LED replacement bulbs for these sorts of fixtures still have some issues to work out as well as cost, but they are getting close. The remaining ones are still running the original halogens. The main reason for cutting back (other than more efficient light becoming available) was the excess heat the halogens generated. Once good quality, cool LED bulbs arrive, most of these will return to service.
My primary lighting are LED strip lights that are enclosed in a clear sheath that plugged right into 110V. Menards sold them, but recently went with the now more standard LED strip lights with a power supply. Depending on the depth and height of a scene, I make multiple runs overhead to get the intensity I need.
If you do buy the RGB type LED strip lights, check the color temp of the white output as it comes in various intensities. It's also the case that color temp ratings can be somewhat subjective. Try them out before you buy a bunch to be sure it meets your expectations.
What's really good about LED strips is that they make it easy to follow the layout and often work just fine without wiorrying about valances since they can sit right on the ceiling. The same properties allow them to be used in tight overhead areas. They are also aimmable, with a little care in fastening them, so try to point them at the area you wish to illuminate for best results.
Here's part of the Cascade Extension showing the overhead LEDs light strips.
This pic shows how I have LEDs lighting a very tight part of the layout that is only 10" tall at it's lowest under the main air duct in the house.
I used a narrow valance here because the LED strip is right at eye level. Note that I also use blue LED rope lights for a night effect, although I leave them on all the time.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I am using inexpensive LED flood lights, installed in recessed can lights and positional track light fixtures for general ceiling light. I have three decks and use two parallel sets of LED stick-on strips between decks similar to Onewolf. The LED's are bright, operate cool, are cheaper to operate, and are quite inexpensive to buy nowdays. I think it's a no brainer.
I also use some older (pre-existing) T8 florescent four foot 2-lamp strips for work lights.
Onewolf. At my last layout, I had 5k led room lights and they were nice and bright but the scenicked parts of the layout looked washed out. I'm thinking of 4k room lights for the basement I'm currently finishing. Comments?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
As others have already mentioned, there is room lighting for working on the layout and there is layout lighting for operating the layout. Usually they are not the same lights. :) I am using 14 4ft T8 fluorescent light fixtures (2 tube) with 6500K (daylight) tubes for room lighting when I work on the layout. At the time the room was built the 4ft LED fixtures were cost prohibitive and they don't put out nearly as much light as the T8 fluorescent lights.
However.... Until I get an LED light system installed the fluorescent room lights also provide layout lighting for the upper level of the layout as well well.
Modeling an HO gauge freelance version of the Union Pacific Oregon Short Line and the Utah Railway around 1957 in a world where Pirates from the Great Salt Lake founded Ogden, UT.
- Photo album of layout construction -
I need proper ceiling lights for a basement I am planning to finishe with a drop ceiling, so I plan to use the 2x2 troffer lights like in GMPULMANs photo above.
I haven't picked a specific brand yet, as I don't yet know how much I will need and I don't want to mix manufacturers. Yes, I mean the stuff that comes on reels, like what OneWolf used. The RGB is less picky, but still want to keep them all the same so a given 'mix' of colors results in a uniform shade across the entire layout. Ditto with blue. White is more picky because of getting both the correct color temperature and a decent CRI, since they are the primary source of light. The RGB and blue ones are more for effect than actually lighting up the layout.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I am planning on using LED strips. Based on installign some on my workbench, I think I will need, for most parts, 2 strips of white, but then I am also runnign a strip of RGB and a strip of blue, so I can do daylight, dusk, dawn, and night effects. Over the aisles, I plan to use the 2x2 and 2x4 panels in the drop ceiling - no more fluorescents. The panels will be for construction and also normal movement through the basement, both levels of the layout will have a valence (lower deck's 'valence' is the upper deck) hoding the LED strips. Dimming and RGB color control happens ont he low voltage side, just need enough adequate power supplies. The limit to how many you can string isn't necessaily the power supply, the flexible cirvuit board they mount on can only pass so much current so after too long a string, you have too much voltage drop and/or possible heating of the strips themselves (independent of the LEDs getting warm, which they do). The use of LED strips is no longer cost prohibitive like it was not all that many years ago, but it is a good idea to get all you need at one time, once you find a brand with the charateristics you like. Matching some made a few years apart, by different manuafacturers, may not result in a smooth transistion from one section to another. --Randy
I am planning on using LED strips. Based on installign some on my workbench, I think I will need, for most parts, 2 strips of white, but then I am also runnign a strip of RGB and a strip of blue, so I can do daylight, dusk, dawn, and night effects. Over the aisles, I plan to use the 2x2 and 2x4 panels in the drop ceiling - no more fluorescents. The panels will be for construction and also normal movement through the basement, both levels of the layout will have a valence (lower deck's 'valence' is the upper deck) hoding the LED strips. Dimming and RGB color control happens ont he low voltage side, just need enough adequate power supplies. The limit to how many you can string isn't necessaily the power supply, the flexible cirvuit board they mount on can only pass so much current so after too long a string, you have too much voltage drop and/or possible heating of the strips themselves (independent of the LEDs getting warm, which they do).
The use of LED strips is no longer cost prohibitive like it was not all that many years ago, but it is a good idea to get all you need at one time, once you find a brand with the charateristics you like. Matching some made a few years apart, by different manuafacturers, may not result in a smooth transistion from one section to another.
Randy can you post the LED strip site and which you are using for white, RGB and Blue? Mine will be behind the valance. When you say LED strips are you talking a lit the rolled up strips or something else?
Another thought. Placement of the layout lighting is critical. Need to place the lights so that they do not cast undesirable shadows.To far to front or back of structures will leave a noticeable shadow. To some degree, this can be avoided with a wide array of lights.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
Gary,
Observations:
Go for a CRI of at least 90 in the bulbs you use.
Decide on the light temperature you are going to use and use the same temp everywhere on the layout and for the lights that you use when you build and paint/weather models at your workbench.
temps are roughly as follows:
3000K is incandescent - tends to yellow/ orange hue
4000K is cool white (shop lites/flourescent) - tends to bluish hue
5000+K is s light - tends to a lighter blue
I had no choice but to stick with the incandescent temperature as I already had many models painted and weathered in that light that didn't look right to my eyes at other temps.
I ended up with CPFLs in. sockets on the valence ala Joe Fugate. I have been very happy with them going on ten years. If I were starting over it would be LED strips for me.
Your mileage will vary,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I have a 20'x20' room with 16 high hats installed. 4 rows of 4 and each row on its own switch. I use 13W CFL flood lights gives off 91 watts of light. Very cost efficient and they last for a long time. Some of the bulbs are in there over 10 years with no issues. Also the room has a trey ceiling so the two outer rows use more of the angled high hats. Overall room height is 11 feet.
Neal
I last used track lighting with LED bulbs. The main tracks I bought localy but all the cans and connectors I bought on e-bay. The secret is is to learn all the names, past and present that used the main tracks you chose. I bought cans for less than $2 and conectors for even less.
I used colour-balanced fluorescents for an earlier layout, and while the light quality was good, the quantity was insufficient. Those tubes, at that time, were rather expensive and also difficult to start, and I generally left them on all of the time.I now use the cool whites mainly because of their high lumen output, and have found that my eyes quickly adapted to accept the light as sunlight, even though it's very obviously not.
When suitable LED replacement fixtures become more affordable, I may replace the fluorescents on a piecemeal basis, but I think that the layout may be gone before that happens. As it is, the lights aren't on all that often, so operational costs are minimal. The rest of the house is lit by LEDs.As for disposal of spent tubes, we have programmes in place for collection and recovery of such materials.
Wayne
hon30critter MisterBeasley I still like dimmers. I like to be able to control how bright the room is. There are now dimmers available that are designed to work with LEDs, but the LEDs themselves have to rated as 'Dimmable'. Edit: Not many are. Many are not. Dave
MisterBeasley I still like dimmers. I like to be able to control how bright the room is.
There are now dimmers available that are designed to work with LEDs, but the LEDs themselves have to rated as 'Dimmable'. Edit: Not many are. Many are not.
Dave
I had dimmers on ceiling floods in my old train room. I bought new bulbs and dimmers, but I moved before I installed them. They are not interchangeable so you need to replace the whole system.
It's one of those things that are best to do before anything else.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
BigDaddyIs everyone happy with their color choice?
Yes.
I try to stay in the warmer end of the spectrum. 2700-3000K is good to my eye.
http://lowel.tiffen.com/edu/color_temperature_and_rendering_demystified.html
Generally, the replacement tubes (fluorescent style) and flat-panel LEDs are in the cooler temperature (°K) range and I can live with that for my "task" lighting or general room lighting. For the operating or display mode (spot lights and can lights) I prefer the warmer temperatures, closest to incandescent as possible.
Thank You, Ed
BigDaddy My recollection from previous discussions is there is a preference for the higher color temperature (cooler) My neighbor replaced the recessed spot lights in his kitchen with cool led bulbs and it looks a little too industrial to me. However lighting a kitchen isn't the same as lighting a model railroad that is supposed to be outside. Is everyone happy with their color choice?
My recollection from previous discussions is there is a preference for the higher color temperature (cooler)
My neighbor replaced the recessed spot lights in his kitchen with cool led bulbs and it looks a little too industrial to me. However lighting a kitchen isn't the same as lighting a model railroad that is supposed to be outside.
Is everyone happy with their color choice?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I have four of these installed in the ceiling of my 9X20 train room. They throw off plenty of light. Not inexpensive, but they are what I wanted and so far giving excellent service.
{I don't have any connection whatsoever with the firm here, just posting their listings as examples of what I have}
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/2x2-led-panel-fixtures-4000K/
As you have figured out, LED is the way to go. Lots of options on how to get it done. I did not have a uniform ceiling structure to work due to overhanging cabiniets and other stuff with so I ended up with hanging LED lighting over my layout. I got the kind that hangs down on a chain and you can link them together so they operate as one light. Looks like you have a ceiling to work with so that is probably a good option for you to work with.
Here is a suggestion on something I overlooked. Create more than one lighting source for the room. You may want a specific configuration of lights for lighting the layout but you may want something different to just light the room when working in there but not runing trains.
WOW lots to digest.
My layout room (basement) is divided by the staircase and laundry room. With that I have an "old-side" and a "new-side". The old side has a ceiling that is attached to the floor joists and the new side has suspended ceiling.
In both cases I have lighting for work sessions where I want bright, even lighting. Like Mel, my light sources have evolved over the past quarter-century.
On the "new side" I have lay-in troffer 2' x 4' fluorescent housings which I first upgraded from larger T-12 tubes and big, hot magnetic ballasta to smaller T-8s with electronic ballasts. Recently, I gutted those and placed LED retrofit tubes in place of the T-8s.
I was always bothered by the buzzing of the ballasts, even the electronic ballasts have some 60 hZ. hum. I like the LEDs with their silent, cool, BRIGHT light.
I have also installed some 2' x 2' LED flat panel fixtures as well. These are BRIGHT!
IMG_8609_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
I also have some high-output T-5 fluorescents in soffit lighting around part of the room.
Then I have an "operations mode" lighting system using many recessed mini-can lights, track lights and soffit lighting. These are all dimmable. Most are MR-16 format but some are Edison base LEDs both in PAR 30 sizes down to mini-spot PAR 16 size.
IMG_8624_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
The mini-recessed cans can be angled to highlight certain scenes and on some of the track lights I have goose-neck MR-16 lamps that can easily be manipulated for taking photos or re-directing the lighting as needed.On the "old side" I have mostly recessed can lights that I've also installed retrofit LED flood lights in supplimented with some surface mount LED flat panels.
IMG_8647 by Edmund, on Flickr
IMG_1493 by Edmund, on Flickr
There are hundreds of different dimmable LEDs on the market today. Most of mine run about $3-4 each. I use ordinary wall switch dimmers. I had to change-out one that didn't seem to play well with some of the dimmable LEDs. Leviton has some wall switch dimmers that are rated for LED use but some of my older ones work fine, too.
IMG_8623_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Take a look at Amazon or 1000bulbs.com for some choices and options.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-light-bulbs/
Good Luck, Ed
MisterBeasleyI still like dimmers. I like to be able to control how bright the room is.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I still like dimmers. I like to be able to control how bright the room is.
I have some crossing gates and signals that are controlled with between-the-ties photo sensors. With dimmers, I can set the room lights just right for a night scene while still having the crossing gates active.
Hi Gary,
I agree with using LED lighting, but I would suggest that you avoid certain types of LED 'bulbs'. We have just installed some new lighting fixtures in our kitchen and dining room. The fixtures came with 'G9' halogen bulbs. When I was looking for LED replacements on Amazon I made a point of reading the reviews and what I found was really shocking (pardon the pun). The failure rate on G9 bulbs is huge! It was rare to find a bulb with better than a 3.5 rating out of 5. That's a 30% failure rating within the first few months. LED bulbs are supposed to last for thousands of hours.
The G9 fixtures tend to be a bit pricey so you probably wouldn't have gone there anyhow, but just in case I thought I should mention it.
Thanks for the replies. all my research points to LED’s as is the opinion here. Now what are the LED Options?
If I use bulb bases, that’s hard wired into house current (Yes?) If I use dual row LED strips connected to a 12v supply how long of a strip can I use with a single supply?
The LEFT - BACK & Right side up to the beginning of the bottom right curve will be against the walls. There will be a valance around the layout that can have LED lights behind it. Separate room lighting will be used in the bottom isle.
Thanks to the internet, you can still hang around with your ne'er-do-well buddies, even if you're sickly.
Ed
7j43k Fading is caused by UV, not IR. That, and maybe cheap dyes. Ed
Fading is caused by UV, not IR. That, and maybe cheap dyes.
Thanks for catching my error. After fighting a bad head cold I'm surprised that I did that good.
My layout room, approximately 560sq. ft. in total area, uses mostly fluorescent lights, with 27 4' double-tube fixtures, two 8' double-tube fixtures, and 2 LED fill lights. The layout is partially double-decked, with some of those fixtures suspended from beneath the upper level of the layout.I would switch to LED fixtures, but the prices for them are still too high, and the light output (lumens) still too low. I also intend to replace one of those 4'-ers with a double-tube 8'-er. Tubes are "cool white", LEDs are "daylight". No noticeable fading of scenery, although most of the fluorescents have plastic covers (suspended ceiling).