Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

How much space?

5992 views
67 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, April 27, 2018 8:24 PM

The hurricane restrictions are as follows, collar braces for every other rafter (I do all of them), "hurricane ties" a thin plate of metal that is screwed to the top plate and the rafter, and a ground tie every 8 feet bolted into the earth.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,254 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Friday, April 27, 2018 7:23 PM

 

 

Didn't we cover all this stuff here?

 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/269384.aspx

 

NWP SWP
I am however in a position to start construction on a building to put a layout in. I'm trying to figure out what size building I need to build a decent size layout. That's why I started this thread.

 

gmpullman

 

 
riogrande5761
So you are going to build a shed?  Sounds like quite a project.

 

Don't forget building codes — especially in severe-weather areas such as yours:

http://lsuccc.dps.louisiana.gov/pdf/UC_Codes_Amendments_2018.pdf

Building to hurricane-resistant standards can add a considerable cost to your project.

 

 
NWP SWP
I think I might do that I'll go to HD and start buying lumber.

 

You have stamped and approved plans already?

Just sayin'

Good Luck, Ed

 

Just sayin' (again) Ed

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,595 posts
Posted by rrebell on Friday, April 27, 2018 6:33 PM

cuyama

This thread and this effort just don’t make practical sense. If one was really going to construct an out-building, the initial focus would be on budgeting, plans, permits, site preparation, running utilities, and setting a foundation. Not buying 2X4s. And parents who won’t allow the Original Poster to build a 2’X4’ model railroad diorama are fine with him spending $20-30K for this building ($90 per square foot building cost in LA)? Plus the costs of the layout itself?

Someone is being strung along, either him or the forum. 

Like the multi-million-dollar NYC electric locomotive relocation to his backyard a while back, this is an impractical fantasy for this point in the Original Poster's life.

Steven, it’s time to focus on achievable things at the club -- like building equipment, learning to do scenery, trying your hand at kitbashing structures, etc. 

Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry said it succinctly.

 

 

Cost of 12x24' building could be done for $6,000 or so for a pre fab $3600 for the building and the rest for the extras. We are talking a shed here.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,321 posts
Posted by selector on Friday, April 27, 2018 4:29 PM

Don't overlook seacans....stackable sea containers.  Sometimes they can be had for a few dollars (few thousands, that is..., or less), and they will protect your stuff from rodents and intruders of other kinds, not to mention rain and wind.  Might be about half the price of a reasonable train shed.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, April 27, 2018 1:29 PM

Short term goal: get train stuff out of house.

Mid term goal: have a place to work on MRR projects.

Long term goal: have a layout that allows for running trains and doing switching.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

PED
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 571 posts
Posted by PED on Friday, April 27, 2018 12:29 PM

If your main short term goal is to "get the trains out of the house", you may look for a used enclosed utility trailer as a storage unit. Not big enough for a layout but keeps all your stuff in one place so you can move it easily when the time comes.

If it was big enough, you might even have space for a small table or fold down shelf on one side to hold a small switching layout. The down side of that is that it would be miserable to operate in during summer in Lousiana.

Paul D

N scale Washita and Santa Fe Railroad
Southern Oklahoma circa late 70's

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, April 27, 2018 11:26 AM

I live in Louisiana in a small rural unincorporated community, as in the country.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • 1,983 posts
Posted by railandsail on Friday, April 27, 2018 8:50 AM

Look at what this fellow placed into a single level NARROW layout...

[Link to another forum removed by moderator]

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • 1,983 posts
Posted by railandsail on Friday, April 27, 2018 8:41 AM

Steven, what state do you live in?

Do you happen to know if there are very restrictive permits required to put an unpowered shed into your parents back yard?

As I understand it you need to get the MRR stuff you have collected out of their house,...and perhaps into a shed of some sort?

I put a 'watch function' onto Craigs list and picked up a 12x16 Handi House shed for $1500. Practically brand new. Lady had bought it and never really put it to use. Some people end up moving and selling off their sheds as separate items. you just have to be watchful, and not in a big hurry.



You could store your stuff in that shed until a much later time (after college) that you decide to build a layout. And these sheds not over 12 feet can be moved fairly easily to a new location, or resold for not a great lost if they are decent to start out with.

Potentially you could start to build a big layout in one portion of that large shed you desire (12x24), , but maybe just put up a small temp one in the corner of the shed, with the other stuff stored over in another corner.

At that point you don't have a big investment that you can't recover in case many other 'life changes' come up.

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,871 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, April 26, 2018 5:17 PM

Good move Steven.  I know it's hard to wait but it is best you keep the main thing the main thing - that is focusing on moving ahead with life and keep hobbies on the said.  I spent many years wanting to build a dream layout but having moved more times than I can remember and many bumps in the road, I haven't been able to really get very far.  But with patience and perserverance, you will get there but can still enjoy the hobby along the way.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 1,835 posts
Posted by bearman on Thursday, April 26, 2018 5:14 PM

OMG...rock and roll will never die, long live rock!

Bear "It's all about having fun."

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, April 26, 2018 2:21 PM

You know I'd like to thank you guys for your perspective, sometimes a objective opinion is needed, and right now a building isn't a wise move, afterall I'm going to college in a year or so, right now I'll occupy myself with detailing and painting rolling stock.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:17 PM

1 my parents have hobbies, well my dad collects autographs and records every sports event, my mom has extreme frugality.

2 I got into the hobby by stumbling across it. 

3 again there's NOWHERE to put a layout in the house.

That's my situation, I thought the biggest thing was a model railroaded needs to have a module/layout?

Well I'll keep collecting money for a building and still work on some projects.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 1,855 posts
Posted by angelob6660 on Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:05 PM

NWP SWP

Is adequate but my parents want all my MRR stuff out of the house, hence the shed and layout.

 
How did get into model trains when your parents hate it? They should've had some reasons why you couldn't build a small one if they cared. Or forced their hobbies to you. Other than space?

Modeling the G.N.O. Railway, The Diamond Route.

Amtrak America, 1971-Present.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, April 26, 2018 12:58 PM

Just checked for the framing it's about $1,000 that's for 8x16, so not quite $30,000 it might be that for a contractor but I know how to do it so there's money saved.

The foundation is posts cemented into the ground, bolt the floor to the posts and that's it.

I'm going to keep working on some projects, I'll post updates as they move along.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,067 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 26, 2018 12:51 PM

cuyama

This thread and this effort just don’t make practical sense. If one was really going to construct an out-building, the initial focus would be on budgeting, plans, permits, site preparation, running utilities, and setting a foundation. Not buying 2X4s. And parents who won’t allow the Original Poster to build a 2’X4’ model railroad diorama are fine with him spending $20-30K for this building ($90 per square foot building cost in LA)? Plus the costs of the layout itself?

Someone is being strung along, either him or the forum. 

Like the multi-million-dollar NYC electric locomotive relocation to his backyard a while back, this is an impractical fantasy for this point in the Original Poster's life.

Steven, it’s time to focus on achievable things at the club -- like building equipment, learning to do scenery, trying your hand at kitbashing structures, etc. 

Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry said it succinctly.

 

 

Byron, you took the words right out of my mouth. I simply could not agree with you more, and I could not have said it better. This young fella is no more going to build an outbuilding than I am going to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. It's good that we are all kind to each other on the forum, but sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. It's one thing to dream and fantasize, quite another to delude oneself. The other replies are spot on about focusing on something realistic and achievable. This thread is about neither.

Rich

Alton Junction

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,208 posts
Posted by tstage on Thursday, April 26, 2018 12:11 PM

7j43k
NWP SWP

I am just trying to get a operating layout.

What's wrong with the club that it isn't adequate?

Ed

Stop being so practical, Ed.  It's taking this thread down the wrong path toward common sense. Tongue Tied

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, April 26, 2018 12:10 PM

Is adequate but my parents want all my MRR stuff out of the house, hence the shed and layout.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, April 26, 2018 12:04 PM

NWP SWP

I am just trying to get a operating layout.

 

 

What's wrong with the club that it isn't adequate?

 

 

Ed

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • 2,980 posts
Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, April 26, 2018 11:33 AM

OK 12x24 is not achievable, maybe a trailer is a better idea, if not 8x16 may be achievable.

College is not happening for another year (when I'm 18).

I am just trying to get a operating layout.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, April 26, 2018 11:31 AM

If I was a "kid" (which I actually was, I'm pretty sure), and I was in a club that I was pretty happy with, I would:

put my time into rolling stock--building some of those "kits" I keep hearing about--and scratchbuilding--assemble a train so wonderful that the Old People at the club would scratch their bald heads in awe (but that's just me)

build a switching module to my OWN standards, not the club's--I'd try to design it to fit into a larger someday layout--I might even make it a Free-mo module, 'cause I could take it with me wherever I went and plop it right into a Free-mo setup--and superdetail it to perfection

 

 

Ed

 

PS:  and I would assume that, if the shed I started on didn't quickly turn into a shed-work-of-art, my parents would be reminding me that it was an eyesore, and would be coming down soon--Yikes!

  • Member since
    February 2015
  • From: Ludington, MI
  • 1,743 posts
Posted by Water Level Route on Thursday, April 26, 2018 11:20 AM

cuyama
Someone is being strung along, either him or the forum. 

I vote forum.

Mike

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,208 posts
Posted by tstage on Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:42 AM

I'm reminded of an old Far Side cartoon where Ginger was being told something by his owner and the outcome was pretty much the same...Sigh

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
  • 4,387 posts
Posted by cuyama on Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:35 AM

riogrande5761
This reminds me of that old song:  "I said son you're going to drive me to drinkin if you don't stop driving that hot - rod - Lincoln."  

Wisdom from a band with one of the all-time great names, Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen

And you're right, the topic is perennial on forums

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,871 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:28 AM

Byron.  Yes.  Well said.  Fantasy vs. reality.  Dreams are ok, but you have to do thngs in the right order to achieve them.  In this case, winning the lottery might be one of the only short cuts.  Ideally it is the parents who are responsible for guiding young men (and women) along a wise path to life and success.  I have to wonder who is at the helm here keeping things on track, or not.

But haven't we here at the forums been led down this merry path before so many times.  *sigh*  How quickly we forget.

Steven, if it is somehow possible, listen to the "sound" advice Byron has.

 

This reminds me of that old song:  "I said son you're going to drive me to drinkin if you don't stop driving that hot - rod - Lincoln."  

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern CA Bay Area
  • 4,387 posts
Posted by cuyama on Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:20 AM

This thread and this effort just don’t make practical sense. If one was really going to construct an out-building, the initial focus would be on budgeting, plans, permits, site preparation, running utilities, and setting a foundation. Not buying 2X4s. And parents who won’t allow the Original Poster to build a 2’X4’ model railroad diorama are fine with him spending $20-30K for this building ($90 per square foot building cost in LA)? Plus the costs of the layout itself?

Someone is being strung along, either him or the forum. 

Like the multi-million-dollar NYC electric locomotive relocation to his backyard a while back, this is an impractical fantasy for this point in the Original Poster's life.

Steven, it’s time to focus on achievable things at the club -- like building equipment, learning to do scenery, trying your hand at kitbashing structures, etc. 

Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry said it succinctly.

 

PED
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 571 posts
Posted by PED on Thursday, April 26, 2018 9:20 AM

As noted before, sooner or later you will be moving.  Plan your layout so it can be moved to a new location. Does not mean that you must use typical 2x4 modules but it means that you can dismantle it and get the pieces thru the doorway, halls and any other obstacles to get it outside then into your new space. 

A layout the size you want will cost MUCH more than you expect and making it moveable will allow you to salvage a lot of your investment.

With the info you gave, sounds like you are headed toward HO scale. If you are willing to shift to N scale, you can get a lot more track into your available space. As long as you are still dreaming, you may want to consider making the whole layout portable in a trailer so you can move it more easily. I have done that. I have a N scale layout in a 92" x 23' space in a old RV trailer I gutted. Plenty of space for a generous N scale layout.

Paul D

N scale Washita and Santa Fe Railroad
Southern Oklahoma circa late 70's

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Thursday, April 26, 2018 9:01 AM

NWP SWP

a central peninsula and returning loops at each end. The question is how much space do I need?

Would 12x24 be wide enough? Or do I need more? Minimum radius is 30 inches and preferably no less that 30 inch aisles. Any ideas?

This is what I'm going for.

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2016/10/ho-scale-west-virginia--southern-ry

 

nevermind

- Douglas

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,649 posts
Posted by gregc on Thursday, April 26, 2018 8:27 AM

i suggest you read Koester's book.   He discusses the length of track needed to reach the 2nd level  and the various reasons why you need flat areas at sidings and for switching

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,871 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, April 26, 2018 7:16 AM

Dave, thanks.  I don't know what the best approach is here, and I am certain many have good intentions regarding advise, but when you look at Steven and where he is in his life, it seems like building a large shed and a layout is inappropriate, to say the least, at the stage of life where he should be focusing on his future and independance.

Most of us know a train layout is a HUGE boat anchor that requires money, time, and most of all, a fairly long term stable living situation.  So unless Steven is basically expecting to be taken care of by his parents as a long-term "disabled" dependant, this endevor is one which he has no business pursuing at his age and stage of life.

There is an old song by the Byrds from back in the 1960's - "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose ..."

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!