Yesterday at the club my friend Rod suggested I expand my planned size for my layout building and I think he's right, now what I want is a split level layout that goes around the walls, a central peninsula and returning loops at each end. The question is how much space do I need?
Would 12x24 be wide enough? Or do I need more? Minimum radius is 30 inches and preferably no less that 30 inch aisles. Any ideas?
This is what I'm going for.
http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2016/10/ho-scale-west-virginia--southern-ry
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
You can go aroound the walls and have a center penninsula in 12' wide, with 30" radius curves, but if you expect to have a turnback curve on the penninsula then you will need a section along the walls that is fairly narrow where the widest part of the penninsula would be, to maintain 30" or better aisle width. The turnback curve at the end of the penninsula would need 60" to the center of the track, for decent scenery around it, a full 72" of space, although you could fudge it a few inches, but not less than 66". That leaves you another 72-78" max left out of the 12' wide room. To be divided into two aisles and the space for the track running along the walls. If you make the penninsula loop 72" wide and the sectiosn of track next to there 6" wide each, you'd have 30" aisles. If you made the penninsula 70" wide, you could make the track along the wall 7" wide and still have 30" aisles. The benchwork along the walls could widen back out as it passed the wide part of the curve, maintaining the 30" aisle but allowing the layout to get wider.
A much narrower penninsula could be used with a divider down the middle to be the two opposite ends of the railroad, a shortcut across the base of the penninsula could allow continuous running around the room.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
This is going to be built on your parent's property, correct?
.
Are you planning to live there forever? Are they planning to retire there? If the answer to either question is "NO", you better think small because this is only your first, and very temporary, layout.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The answers to both questions is yes*
(*they plan to retire here and my current plans are to live in the area so yes.)
Is this really a viable question at this point? Assuming you graduated high school, will you be going into college this fall as you once indicated?
If so, perhaps it would be best to spend your time and energy in earning money this summer to make that college a reality.
Having four kids in their 50s, I know of what I speak................
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I have to ask you, at age 17, you will be out of the "nest" in a few years and off to the adventure of life. So it makes me wonder, why build a large shed for a layout when, if you follow the typical life of a young man, you will be off, away up the road (as the Scotts say).
Or do you plan on not cutting the apron strings and live with your parents for many years? Some do, if thats the severity of your asbergers. But if you are high functioning, you shouldn't let a "hobby" hold you back in life and anchor you down, not at your age. You are planning to do something most don't do until they are established in a career with a good income and are stable in where they are living.
My advise to you is to work on real life, put your energy there. Mature, and focus on things that will move you forward, and not hold you back. Your thinking like a child when you should start thinking like an adult. Trains are fun, but real life is calling and should take precident.
I would also wonder if your parents are supporting this idea of building a large shed and a layout at their retirement property, are they enabling you to remain in a dependancy situation when really they should be gently pushing you on toward independance?
Maybe I don't have all the facts. It seems all the "responsible adults" on this forum should not be encouraging things that would hold a young man back from moving on with his life in a good and normal way.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
NWP SWPWould 12x24 be wide enough? Or do I need more? Minimum radius is 30 inches and preferably no less that 30 inch aisles.
Hi Steven:
Your suggested space of 12' x 24' will give you lots of space for a decent layout, although fitting 30" minimum radius curves into it could be a challenge if you decide that you want return loops for continuous running. Continuous running is an absolute 'must have' IMHO, but I like to watch trains run as much or more than switching.
I'm going to make a suggestion similar to what I have said to you before. Choose a size for the building, then design it so that you know exactly what materials you will need to build the entire building from start to finish. Then start saving your money. I'm no expert on building design, but for a 12' x 24' basic uninsulated garden shed type building I think you are going to have to spend about $8,000 - $10,000 just for the basic structure, and that does not include a masonary foundation or the ground preparation to just lay a crib on the ground. That is also without electricity or heat or plumbing or air conditioning, and you won't have even started to buy what will be needed for the layout itself. Then you will have to spend money on rolling stock.
If you want to get anywhere with this then I suggest that you choose your layout design, then design the building to accomodate it, then cost out what you want to run on it, and then start saving your money. I will predict that it is going to easily cost you $25,000 - $30,000 to do what you want.
I'm not trying to burst your bubble Steven. I am trying to help you focus on your goals. Please don't spend any more money on building materials until you have a solid plan in place. You may feel that you have accomplished something by buying some 2x4s, but what you have actually likely done is bought some perfectly good wood that will become scrap before you can use it.
I'm on your side Steven, although it might not seem like it with all my cautionary advice. Sorry if I have burst your bubble. You will always have your club to go to where you can run your trains.
Respectfully,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Steven, there is another consideration. Check with your local building codes bureaucracy. My guess is you can put up a shed, no matter how big, but the minute you bring uitilities to it, then you may need a building permit and inspections. And, depending on its location, you may need to meet offset and clearance requirements, regardless of the utility issue.
And if you do run power to it and decide to tap into the box for the house, you may need to add a separate circuit and breaker.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
riogrande5761My advise to you is to work on real life, put your energy there. Mature, and focus on things that will move you forward, and not hold you back. Your thinking like a child when you should start thinking like an adult. Trains are fun, but real life is calling and should take precident.
Well, I think that riogrande5761 has put things in true perspective. I was trying to be a bit more 'gentle', but the truth isn't always made up of ice cream and candy.
Sit back Steven. Plan your future first. Better to spend your money on education. You will still have lots of time for trains.
Dave, thanks. I don't know what the best approach is here, and I am certain many have good intentions regarding advise, but when you look at Steven and where he is in his life, it seems like building a large shed and a layout is inappropriate, to say the least, at the stage of life where he should be focusing on his future and independance.
Most of us know a train layout is a HUGE boat anchor that requires money, time, and most of all, a fairly long term stable living situation. So unless Steven is basically expecting to be taken care of by his parents as a long-term "disabled" dependant, this endevor is one which he has no business pursuing at his age and stage of life.
There is an old song by the Byrds from back in the 1960's - "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose ..."
i suggest you read Koester's book. He discusses the length of track needed to reach the 2nd level and the various reasons why you need flat areas at sidings and for switching
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
NWP SWP a central peninsula and returning loops at each end. The question is how much space do I need? Would 12x24 be wide enough? Or do I need more? Minimum radius is 30 inches and preferably no less that 30 inch aisles. Any ideas? This is what I'm going for. http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2016/10/ho-scale-west-virginia--southern-ry
a central peninsula and returning loops at each end. The question is how much space do I need?
nevermind
- Douglas
As noted before, sooner or later you will be moving. Plan your layout so it can be moved to a new location. Does not mean that you must use typical 2x4 modules but it means that you can dismantle it and get the pieces thru the doorway, halls and any other obstacles to get it outside then into your new space.
A layout the size you want will cost MUCH more than you expect and making it moveable will allow you to salvage a lot of your investment.
With the info you gave, sounds like you are headed toward HO scale. If you are willing to shift to N scale, you can get a lot more track into your available space. As long as you are still dreaming, you may want to consider making the whole layout portable in a trailer so you can move it more easily. I have done that. I have a N scale layout in a 92" x 23' space in a old RV trailer I gutted. Plenty of space for a generous N scale layout.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
This thread and this effort just don’t make practical sense. If one was really going to construct an out-building, the initial focus would be on budgeting, plans, permits, site preparation, running utilities, and setting a foundation. Not buying 2X4s. And parents who won’t allow the Original Poster to build a 2’X4’ model railroad diorama are fine with him spending $20-30K for this building ($90 per square foot building cost in LA)? Plus the costs of the layout itself?
Someone is being strung along, either him or the forum.
Like the multi-million-dollar NYC electric locomotive relocation to his backyard a while back, this is an impractical fantasy for this point in the Original Poster's life.
Steven, it’s time to focus on achievable things at the club -- like building equipment, learning to do scenery, trying your hand at kitbashing structures, etc.
Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry said it succinctly.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Byron. Yes. Well said. Fantasy vs. reality. Dreams are ok, but you have to do thngs in the right order to achieve them. In this case, winning the lottery might be one of the only short cuts. Ideally it is the parents who are responsible for guiding young men (and women) along a wise path to life and success. I have to wonder who is at the helm here keeping things on track, or not.
But haven't we here at the forums been led down this merry path before so many times. *sigh* How quickly we forget.
Steven, if it is somehow possible, listen to the "sound" advice Byron has.
This reminds me of that old song: "I said son you're going to drive me to drinkin if you don't stop driving that hot - rod - Lincoln."
riogrande5761This reminds me of that old song: "I said son you're going to drive me to drinkin if you don't stop driving that hot - rod - Lincoln."
Wisdom from a band with one of the all-time great names, Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen
And you're right, the topic is perennial on forums
I'm reminded of an old Far Side cartoon where Ginger was being told something by his owner and the outcome was pretty much the same...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
cuyamaSomeone is being strung along, either him or the forum.
Mike
If I was a "kid" (which I actually was, I'm pretty sure), and I was in a club that I was pretty happy with, I would:
put my time into rolling stock--building some of those "kits" I keep hearing about--and scratchbuilding--assemble a train so wonderful that the Old People at the club would scratch their bald heads in awe (but that's just me)
build a switching module to my OWN standards, not the club's--I'd try to design it to fit into a larger someday layout--I might even make it a Free-mo module, 'cause I could take it with me wherever I went and plop it right into a Free-mo setup--and superdetail it to perfection
Ed
PS: and I would assume that, if the shed I started on didn't quickly turn into a shed-work-of-art, my parents would be reminding me that it was an eyesore, and would be coming down soon--Yikes!
OK 12x24 is not achievable, maybe a trailer is a better idea, if not 8x16 may be achievable.
College is not happening for another year (when I'm 18).
I am just trying to get a operating layout.
NWP SWP I am just trying to get a operating layout.
What's wrong with the club that it isn't adequate?
Is adequate but my parents want all my MRR stuff out of the house, hence the shed and layout.
7j43k NWP SWP I am just trying to get a operating layout. What's wrong with the club that it isn't adequate? Ed
Stop being so practical, Ed. It's taking this thread down the wrong path toward common sense.
cuyama This thread and this effort just don’t make practical sense. If one was really going to construct an out-building, the initial focus would be on budgeting, plans, permits, site preparation, running utilities, and setting a foundation. Not buying 2X4s. And parents who won’t allow the Original Poster to build a 2’X4’ model railroad diorama are fine with him spending $20-30K for this building ($90 per square foot building cost in LA)? Plus the costs of the layout itself? Someone is being strung along, either him or the forum. Like the multi-million-dollar NYC electric locomotive relocation to his backyard a while back, this is an impractical fantasy for this point in the Original Poster's life. Steven, it’s time to focus on achievable things at the club -- like building equipment, learning to do scenery, trying your hand at kitbashing structures, etc. Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry said it succinctly.
Rich
Alton Junction
Just checked for the framing it's about $1,000 that's for 8x16, so not quite $30,000 it might be that for a contractor but I know how to do it so there's money saved.
The foundation is posts cemented into the ground, bolt the floor to the posts and that's it.
I'm going to keep working on some projects, I'll post updates as they move along.
NWP SWP Is adequate but my parents want all my MRR stuff out of the house, hence the shed and layout.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
1 my parents have hobbies, well my dad collects autographs and records every sports event, my mom has extreme frugality.
2 I got into the hobby by stumbling across it.
3 again there's NOWHERE to put a layout in the house.
That's my situation, I thought the biggest thing was a model railroaded needs to have a module/layout?
Well I'll keep collecting money for a building and still work on some projects.
You know I'd like to thank you guys for your perspective, sometimes a objective opinion is needed, and right now a building isn't a wise move, afterall I'm going to college in a year or so, right now I'll occupy myself with detailing and painting rolling stock.
OMG...rock and roll will never die, long live rock!
Good move Steven. I know it's hard to wait but it is best you keep the main thing the main thing - that is focusing on moving ahead with life and keep hobbies on the said. I spent many years wanting to build a dream layout but having moved more times than I can remember and many bumps in the road, I haven't been able to really get very far. But with patience and perserverance, you will get there but can still enjoy the hobby along the way.