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Using Straight Edges to Lay Flex Track

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Using Straight Edges to Lay Flex Track
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 5:50 AM

Arghhh! 

I started to lay track for my downtown passenger station, and it is quite a challenge to lay long runs of 10-track complexes down the center of a plywood surface. 

I have another thread running on how best to nail down flex track and keep it straight. But, now, I have run into another problem. I am using a series of straight edges and metal track alignment gauges, and that is working, but the problem is how to secure the straight edges so that they don't move during the nailing process.

So, my question is, how do you secure the straight edges when their location makes it impossible to use clamps?

Rich

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Posted by Pruitt on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 6:52 AM

Easy answer - you don't.

What I do when I use a straightedge is nail the track just in from the far ends of the straightedge, then work my way along the length of the straightedge, holding the straightedge against the outside of one of the rails while at the same time holding the unsecured part I'm about to nail against the straightedge. Works like a charm!

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 7:00 AM

Or, is there some way you can temporarily screw the straight edge down?

Mike.

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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 7:09 AM

Try Tape. Duct tape the ruler, yardstick or other straight edge to the surface, place the track against the straight edge and then tape the track ends and middle across the rails and straight edge.

Worked for me when I built the sorting yard.

Gary

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 7:55 AM

Rich, are you laying this track directly on plywood? If so, what grade of plywood?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by carl425 on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 8:12 AM

I drilled holes in the yardstick and used 1 inch finishing nails to hold it in place.  Worked great.

Recently I switched to using the Ribbonrail alignment gauges.

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Posted by Medina1128 on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 8:19 AM

I don't use nails. I use a very thin bead of acrylic latex caulk. Press the track down into the caulk, then along the straight edge and hold in place with push pins. I use cork roadbed, and the pins hold the track fine until the caulk dries.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 8:41 AM

Brunton

Easy answer - you don't.

What I do when I use a straightedge is nail the track just in from the far ends of the straightedge, then work my way along the length of the straightedge, holding the straightedge against the outside of one of the rails while at the same time holding the unsecured part I'm about to nail against the straightedge. Works like a charm! 

Thanks, Mark, I will try that.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 8:44 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Rich, are you laying this track directly on plywood? If so, what grade of plywood?

Sheldon 

The mainlines will be on cork roadbed, but the yards and passenger ladder will be on the plywood layout surface. 

The plywood is graded B2. I have to say, this stuff is so pretty that I would consider it A1. I hate to drill holes in it.

Rich

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 9:33 AM

richhotrain

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Rich, are you laying this track directly on plywood? If so, what grade of plywood?

Sheldon 

 

 

The mainlines will be on cork roadbed, but the yards and passenger ladder will be on the plywood layout surface. 

 

The plywood is graded B2. I have to say, this stuff is so pretty that I would consider it A1. I hate to drill holes in it.

Rich

 

Rich, I think this explains a lot of your problems with getting track straight.

Plywood is very hard to drive small nails into, and keep them perfectly straight. Even a slight angle in the nail will push your track one way or the other. This is why so many modelers for years have used homasote.

Same may be true for your cork mainlines, nails go easily into cork but when they hit the plywood below they may change direction and push the track off to the sides one direction or the other.

Forgetting all my opinions in favor of caulk, I would not be trying to nail track directly to plywood with track nails - long spikes pushed in - maybe?

The old TruScale wood roadbed was basswood and/or soft pine, it took track nails or spikes nicely, but with plywood, no matter the type of wood, as soon as you penetrate the top veneer, you are fighting the glue, which are hard resin materials.

Caulk or Homasote, or both, and I suspect you will have much better luck.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 9:35 AM

richhotrain

Arghhh! 

I started to lay track for my downtown passenger station, and it is quite a challenge to lay long runs of 10-track complexes down the center of a plywood surface. 

I have another thread running on how best to nail down flex track and keep it straight. But, now, I have run into another problem. I am using a series of straight edges and metal track alignment gauges, and that is working, but the problem is how to secure the straight edges so that they don't move during the nailing process.

So, my question is, how do you secure the straight edges when their location makes it impossible to use clamps?

Rich

 

Rich.  OT slightly.  Are you using or reusing Atlas flex track?  I'd think the springy nature of it would make it difficult to lay a laser straight section if it has already been bent before, without affixing part of it to the plywood and rebending it where needed. 

I think Peco is less springy and tends to mold in place, so it would seem easier to restraighten it by laying it on its side and pressing down against the plywood first.

Just wondering what brand of flex track you will be using to try and get laser straight sections.

- Douglas

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 9:40 AM

Doughless

 

 
richhotrain

Arghhh! 

I started to lay track for my downtown passenger station, and it is quite a challenge to lay long runs of 10-track complexes down the center of a plywood surface. 

I have another thread running on how best to nail down flex track and keep it straight. But, now, I have run into another problem. I am using a series of straight edges and metal track alignment gauges, and that is working, but the problem is how to secure the straight edges so that they don't move during the nailing process.

So, my question is, how do you secure the straight edges when their location makes it impossible to use clamps?

Rich

 

 

 

Rich.  OT slightly.  Are you using or reusing Atlas flex track?  I'd think the springy nature of it would make it difficult to lay a laser straight section if it has already been bent before, without affixing part of it to the plywood and rebending it where needed. 

I think Peco is less springy and tends to mold in place, so it would seem easier to restraighten it by laying it on its side and pressing down against the plywood first.

Just wondering what brand of flex track you will be using to try and get laser straight sections.

 

I don't generally reuse flex track, but I have never had any problem laying Atlas flex track "lazer straight". In fact I hate working with Walthers, PECO or ME where it stays bent once bent.

Again it is about good layout work in advance and proper tools.

Just me.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 9:51 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
Doughless

 

 
richhotrain

Arghhh! 

I started to lay track for my downtown passenger station, and it is quite a challenge to lay long runs of 10-track complexes down the center of a plywood surface. 

I have another thread running on how best to nail down flex track and keep it straight. But, now, I have run into another problem. I am using a series of straight edges and metal track alignment gauges, and that is working, but the problem is how to secure the straight edges so that they don't move during the nailing process.

So, my question is, how do you secure the straight edges when their location makes it impossible to use clamps?

Rich

 

 

 

Rich.  OT slightly.  Are you using or reusing Atlas flex track?  I'd think the springy nature of it would make it difficult to lay a laser straight section if it has already been bent before, without affixing part of it to the plywood and rebending it where needed. 

I think Peco is less springy and tends to mold in place, so it would seem easier to restraighten it by laying it on its side and pressing down against the plywood first.

Just wondering what brand of flex track you will be using to try and get laser straight sections.

 

 

 

I don't generally reuse flex track, but I have never had any problem laying Atlas flex track "lazer straight". In fact I hate working with Walthers, PECO or ME where it stays bent once bent.

Again it is about good layout work in advance and proper tools.

Just me.

Sheldon

 

Sheldon.  I have only worked with Atlas flex, and my experience is once its curved and sets secure for a while, or is bent coming out of the box, it tends to stay that way.  Restraightening the track is difficult because it wants to spring back to its newly bent shape.

I think Peco and ME rails form more to how the ties move.  Its harder to make a consistent curve without tools than the springy Atlas, but I think it wont resist going back to straight if the ties are pushed up against a straight guide.  That's my understanding, which may be wrong.  I've never worked with either brand.

- Douglas

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:06 AM

Doughless

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
Doughless

 

 
richhotrain

Arghhh! 

I started to lay track for my downtown passenger station, and it is quite a challenge to lay long runs of 10-track complexes down the center of a plywood surface. 

I have another thread running on how best to nail down flex track and keep it straight. But, now, I have run into another problem. I am using a series of straight edges and metal track alignment gauges, and that is working, but the problem is how to secure the straight edges so that they don't move during the nailing process.

So, my question is, how do you secure the straight edges when their location makes it impossible to use clamps?

Rich

 

 

 

Rich.  OT slightly.  Are you using or reusing Atlas flex track?  I'd think the springy nature of it would make it difficult to lay a laser straight section if it has already been bent before, without affixing part of it to the plywood and rebending it where needed. 

I think Peco is less springy and tends to mold in place, so it would seem easier to restraighten it by laying it on its side and pressing down against the plywood first.

Just wondering what brand of flex track you will be using to try and get laser straight sections.

 

 

 

I don't generally reuse flex track, but I have never had any problem laying Atlas flex track "lazer straight". In fact I hate working with Walthers, PECO or ME where it stays bent once bent.

Again it is about good layout work in advance and proper tools.

Just me.

Sheldon

 

 

 

Sheldon.  I have only worked with Atlas flex, and my experience is once its curved and sets secure for a while, or is bent coming out of the box, it tends to stay that way.  Restraightening the track is difficult because it wants to spring back to its newly bent shape.

I think Peco and ME rails form more to how the ties move.  Its harder to make a consistent curve without tools than the springy Atlas, but I think it wont resist going back to straight if the ties are pushed up against a straight guide.  That's my understanding, which may be wrong.  I've never worked with either brand.

 

With any brand the rail will take a "set" after it has been in use on curve for a while. Again I seldom try reuse track.........

I have tried to straighten those other brands, very hard to do, making it unforgiving even putting it down brand new, at least in my experiance.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:11 AM

If you're still interested in holding the straightedge to the plywood, try a bit of Ailene's Tacky Glue.  It will hold firmly, but when you're ready to take it up it will give way with a little force.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:21 AM

I use straight edges various ways like most of us do, however, I often lay down a chalk line as it will show me if anything is off course. I have also caulked down long stretches off track by just caulking them from the get-go, lining the rail up over the chalk line and it has come out perfectly straight.

Brent

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:30 AM

Some examples of straight track, layed on straight homasote roadbed, track glued with PolySeamSeal adheasive caulk:

Sheldon

    

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:41 AM

I did a yard once in ply, had to drill most holes through the fist couple layers of ply on a lot of it.

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:43 AM

I agree with Brent:  if you need a straight line to which you can work, snap a chalk line.

I didn't use a straightedge or chalk line for my straight track, but simply marked the end points of the straightaways, then spiked (track nails pushed in with the head of a pair of pliers) while sighting by-eye.  That was on both cork and directly into plywood, in the latter case, perhaps one nail in ten required pre-drilling.

If the track, once done, has a few little wiggles in it when sighted in that manner, it's very easy to simply push the head of the nail sideways in the direction needed to straighten-out the problem.

Wayne

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Posted by Deane Johnson on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:48 AM

rrebell

I did a yard once in ply, had to drill most holes through the fist couple layers of ply on a lot of it.

I know the feeling.  Fifty years ago, I tried building a single garage size layout with hand laid ties and track direct on plywood.  Talk about clueless.  I had to drill every nail hole with a dremel tool.  Never finished it. My new layout is on Homasote and I love the performance of the product.  Awesome for nails.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 3:28 PM
I fear I must be a simple soul, but as most of the track I’ve laid, new and used Peco, GT Italy, and Atlas, is laid directly on to MDF or plywood, I don’t see the problem with drilling each track nail hole.
For laying straight track, I use a string line, Bruntons method, and the Mk 1 eyeball.
C’mon Rich, yer stalling!Wink
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 6:49 PM

 Drilling every hole is just too much work. I've found that setting the track in cork and pushing one of the Ribbonrail stright pieces along it makes it nearly perfectly straight, sighting along it there are few if any deviations, nothing enough to cause a problem. If there is, a gentle nudge fixes it.

I once built an N scale layout on sheet homasote. Sure was easy to push the track nails in, by hand, without shoving the track around. It was also equally easy to remove it - I reused the track AND the nails, the pulled out that easily. I still don't understand where homasote got a reputation for spike HOLDING power - easy to push them in, absolutely. But they aren't held in worth anything. Add ballast and glue it down, and your track will stay, but just nails? Not so much. 

Peco is a decent compromise - it still forms nice curves like Atlas, but only springs back part way - at least the Code 83. I don't know about the Code 100 or Code 75. Definitely way easier to work with than ME. 

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Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 8:59 PM

rrinker

 Drilling every hole is just too much work. I've found that setting the track in cork and pushing one of the Ribbonrail stright pieces along it makes it nearly perfectly straight, sighting along it there are few if any deviations, nothing enough to cause a problem. If there is, a gentle nudge fixes it.

I once built an N scale layout on sheet homasote. Sure was easy to push the track nails in, by hand, without shoving the track around. It was also equally easy to remove it - I reused the track AND the nails, the pulled out that easily. I still don't understand where homasote got a reputation for spike HOLDING power - easy to push them in, absolutely. But they aren't held in worth anything. Add ballast and glue it down, and your track will stay, but just nails? Not so much. 

Peco is a decent compromise - it still forms nice curves like Atlas, but only springs back part way - at least the Code 83. I don't know about the Code 100 or Code 75. Definitely way easier to work with than ME. 

                                         --Randy

 

Randy,

Your homasote experience is very interesting, never heard anyone else have that opinion/experience.

I have build, or been involved in building about a dozen layouts with homasote roadbed, and homasote sheet for yard areas over the last 40 years, some with commercial roadbed like Homabed or Cascade, others made their own

Long before track glued with caulk, I learned from the masters at the Severna Park Club how to hand lay track/build turnouts with spikes into homasote roadbed and Campbell profile ties. The spikes are placed next to the ties, not thru them.

I built my second layout that way with no issues. The Severna Park layout is now pushing 60 years old and still running fine with minimal maintenance on hand layed track spiked into homasote?

A number of other layouts I have helped build consisted of flex track nailed into homasote with track nails, again never any problem with loose, or easy to pull nails? Many of those layouts are still running, 10, 20, 30 years?

At one time, the actual Homasote brand had some competitors, one has to wonder if their product was of the same spec/quality? I don't know if they still have any competition?

Sheldon

 

    

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 9:13 PM

I have always used minimal nails, and ballasted the track as soon as possible.

.

Glue and ballast hold track in place better than spikes ever will.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by railandsail on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:06 PM

carl425

Recently I switched to using the Ribbonrail alignment gauges.

What did you use previously?
Have you used Fast Tracks SweepSticks?
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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, April 4, 2018 10:23 PM

Ribbon rail fits between the rails, like sweep sticks.  Ribbon rail are made from metal.

Mike.

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, April 5, 2018 1:41 AM

Sheldon, laying track that straight is just plain disgusting!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Seriously, that is excellent track work.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 5, 2018 5:01 AM

Long ago, I offered $10,000, no questions asked, to the first person who could teach me to drive a golf ball 200 yards into the fairway on all 14 par 4 and par 5 holes in a single round. I still have that money in my account.   Sigh

So, I am extending that offer to the first person who can teach me to lay "laser straight" track on my 10 downtown passenger station tracks running 12 feet each into the train shed.   Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, April 5, 2018 5:26 AM

richhotrain
I offered $10,000,

Oh No!!! Not the dreaded Fiji warbonds!!Ick!

richhotrain
...lay "laser straight" track on my 10 downtown passenger station tracks running 12 feet each into the train shed.

Actually I have full confidence that you can and will achieve that goal, yourself!

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 5, 2018 5:30 AM

 
richhotrain
I offered $10,000, 

Oh No!!! Not the dreaded Fiji warbonds!!Ick! 

Bear, I have warned you before about revealing the source of the funds. This has all gone on too long. I have filed a Report Abuse on this matter!   Super Angry
 
Rich

Alton Junction

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