richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Robert's and mine both look pretty straight? Sheldon As I say, I am not challenging anyone's assertion that there track is "pretty straight". But, as Robert indicates, or at least implies, it may not be perfectly straight. But the mini cam doesn't lie. Is it laser straight? While I no longer use sectional track, only as a beginner some 14+ years ago, sectional track can be considered laser straight since the rails are fixed into the ties, but flex track is not fixed in place, so can it ever be truly laser straight on a layout? Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Robert's and mine both look pretty straight? Sheldon
Robert's and mine both look pretty straight?
Sheldon
As I say, I am not challenging anyone's assertion that there track is "pretty straight". But, as Robert indicates, or at least implies, it may not be perfectly straight. But the mini cam doesn't lie. Is it laser straight?
While I no longer use sectional track, only as a beginner some 14+ years ago, sectional track can be considered laser straight since the rails are fixed into the ties, but flex track is not fixed in place, so can it ever be truly laser straight on a layout?
Rich
If I had to say, I suppose I'd say my track is 'pretty straight'; not perfect, not by a long shot. I took great pains and laid it as well as my meager talents allowed. I don't have a laser level, but I put my cheek directly on the track and sighted down the rails like a rifle. And I saw a bunch of little bitty tiny (for lack of a better word) kinks. I corrected whichever ones I could in the time allowed, but some simply could not be perfectly aligned. But overall I am very pleased with the final results. Like I did say, the remaining imperfections are barely visible to the naked eye, even with that cheek business. And many vistas are not available to the casual observers.
Regarding cameras . . . single lens cameras do not perceive things the same way as human eyeballs. Especially the short focal length fisheye lens cameras that Rich is talking about. I've seen dozens of YouTube videos made from cab viewpoints, and smack dab every single one of them shows tracks with exaggerated warpage. Not most every one, not almost every one, every one. I don't watch them any more for this reason. Watch one, any one, and notice that as the train passes a signal mast or a building or a bridge abutment or anything else known to be straight, level, or plumb. The image bends. Cameras might not lie, but they do distort. And given even a small little tiny miniscule almost imperceptible bump to work with . . .
But I would never presume to tell anyone how to play with his own toys.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
And, that is the further advantage of homasote roadbed like Cascade. You use straight sections for straight track, unlike cork.
The straight sections have been milled in a table saw and/or router table of some sort. They are straight, making it easier to lay them straight, and easier to lay straight track on top of them.
In my photos, the 3/8" plywood that is between the OSB deck and the roadbed were made on my table saw - straight as well.......
Rich,
I understand. As I explained before, my track is that straight because the method allows adjustment.
The caulk allows the track to be shifted side to side and checked/double checked with the straight edge. By having the roadbed straight in the first place, or by having good edge lines drawn for the edge of the ties in yard areas, the straight edge can be progressively moved along to insure straightness.
The thick PolySeamSeal caulk has a high tack holding the track still while still allowing movement for adjustments.
I may have even used a 6' level for some of those long stretches.
It is my view that nailing the track into such a hard surface is you enemy, predrilling or not.
Just my view,
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain What I plan to do is to run a short train with the mini cam to video my track work as i move along. I will try to do that in the next few days. Sheldon, I appreciate your efforts to take those laser photos. Your track work looks awfully good. But, I believe that the most critical test is the mini cam. You cannot get anymore up close and personal than that. Rich Rich, I moved one of those marker sticks up and down the whole 11 feet, the lazer was right on the rail the whole distance. The margin of error was about half the width of the beam, or about 1/32". Respectfully, I have no plans to own a mini cam on a flat car. For me it's another one of those things like sound....... Sheldon
richhotrain What I plan to do is to run a short train with the mini cam to video my track work as i move along. I will try to do that in the next few days. Sheldon, I appreciate your efforts to take those laser photos. Your track work looks awfully good. But, I believe that the most critical test is the mini cam. You cannot get anymore up close and personal than that. Rich
What I plan to do is to run a short train with the mini cam to video my track work as i move along. I will try to do that in the next few days.
Sheldon, I appreciate your efforts to take those laser photos. Your track work looks awfully good. But, I believe that the most critical test is the mini cam. You cannot get anymore up close and personal than that.
I moved one of those marker sticks up and down the whole 11 feet, the lazer was right on the rail the whole distance. The margin of error was about half the width of the beam, or about 1/32".
Respectfully, I have no plans to own a mini cam on a flat car. For me it's another one of those things like sound.......
Alton Junction
The bit closest to the camera doesn't look very straight!!
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Lazer straight track, a picture is worth a thousand words, about 11 feet of straight track:
notice the lazer tracer on the railhead.....
richhotrainLong ago, I offered $10,000, no questions asked, to the first person who could teach me to drive a golf ball 200 yards into the fairway on all 14 par 4 and par 5 holes in a single round. I still have that money in my account.
Pick up golf ball from Tee
Get in golf cart.
Drive 200 yards onto fairway.
Drop ball.
...drops mic on stage. Or possibly I just don't get golf.
My vote is on Sweepsticks or Ribbon Rail guages. You can hold these in place with a Fast tracks filing jig or some other small heavy object while you nail.
Rich, I don't know, but I own several lazers, and those sections I photgraphed are still in place and operational - not sure if the lazer beam will show up in a photo, but I surely have the means to check them with a lazer......and I will.
richhotrain ROBERT PETRICK I like to think I can be just as nit-picky as anyone when it comes to trackage . . . When I designed my layout, a specific criteria was for long continuous mainline runs with areas of straight track to allow trains to stretch their legs. After all, that is what prototype railroads look like. But in doing so I knew that I would have to actually build long continuous mainline runs with straight track: I used 24" and 36" steel straightedges (from my old drafting days) and 18" to 48" lengths of aluminum channel, but even so there will always be burbles and kinks here and there. Some will never be seen under ordinary conditions because operators and guests will not be abe to get into position for the viewpoint of the camera held over the edge of the layout at arm's length (I don't have a selfie stick!). Other flaws can be easily disguised or blocked with stragetically placed buildings or structures or trees or rocks or whatnot. I would like to get a tiny mobile camera to make videos from engineer/conductor point of view, but I would not want to make that the norm, because I know that would really accentuate even small little tiny flaws/imperfections. At any rate, you gotta go with what you got. Robert Robert, thanks for that post. As I lay track on my new layout, I keep wondering just how straight anyone can really get flextrack. I am not saying that someone cannot, and I am hoping that I can, but I just keep wondering if I am expecting the impossible. Rich
ROBERT PETRICK I like to think I can be just as nit-picky as anyone when it comes to trackage . . . When I designed my layout, a specific criteria was for long continuous mainline runs with areas of straight track to allow trains to stretch their legs. After all, that is what prototype railroads look like. But in doing so I knew that I would have to actually build long continuous mainline runs with straight track: I used 24" and 36" steel straightedges (from my old drafting days) and 18" to 48" lengths of aluminum channel, but even so there will always be burbles and kinks here and there. Some will never be seen under ordinary conditions because operators and guests will not be abe to get into position for the viewpoint of the camera held over the edge of the layout at arm's length (I don't have a selfie stick!). Other flaws can be easily disguised or blocked with stragetically placed buildings or structures or trees or rocks or whatnot. I would like to get a tiny mobile camera to make videos from engineer/conductor point of view, but I would not want to make that the norm, because I know that would really accentuate even small little tiny flaws/imperfections. At any rate, you gotta go with what you got. Robert
I like to think I can be just as nit-picky as anyone when it comes to trackage . . .
Robert, thanks for that post.
As I lay track on my new layout, I keep wondering just how straight anyone can really get flextrack. I am not saying that someone cannot, and I am hoping that I can, but I just keep wondering if I am expecting the impossible.
nealknows I've used Ribbonrail 10" straight and 5" straight sections and they work fine. Same with a metal yard stick as well as a 48" level. Just take your time. I use HO cork on 1/2" plywood. Atlas track nails, a small hammer and I have no issues. In my yard areas, I drill holes in the flex track (1/8" cork), track nails and the small hammer. As I said earlier, take your time. Good luck! Neal
I've used Ribbonrail 10" straight and 5" straight sections and they work fine. Same with a metal yard stick as well as a 48" level. Just take your time. I use HO cork on 1/2" plywood. Atlas track nails, a small hammer and I have no issues. In my yard areas, I drill holes in the flex track (1/8" cork), track nails and the small hammer.
As I said earlier, take your time.
Good luck!
Neal
Neal, do you drill pilot holes and, if so, how deep?
railandsail ATLANTIC CENTRAL Rich, you saw my photos? That aas done with a 36" aluminum yadd stick and chalk lines...... Sheldon Where were your photos posted?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Rich, you saw my photos? That aas done with a 36" aluminum yadd stick and chalk lines...... Sheldon
Rich, you saw my photos? That aas done with a 36" aluminum yadd stick and chalk lines......
Where were your photos posted?
Earlier in this same thread......
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
richhotrainYeah, it is my "laser straight track" obsession that haunts me every since buying than darn mini cam a few years back.
Rich, you saw my photos? That was done with a 36" aluminum yard stick and chalk lines......
Doughless I understand Rich's concern (this thread or the other) where a minicam might reveal unprecise straight track where you once swore it was. If I get to that point where that's a concern, I'll use more precisely engineered methods for getting track and roadbed laser straight.
I understand Rich's concern (this thread or the other) where a minicam might reveal unprecise straight track where you once swore it was. If I get to that point where that's a concern, I'll use more precisely engineered methods for getting track and roadbed laser straight.
It is those "precisely engineered methods" that I am searching for.
I also planning to purchase a 98" straight edge. I have read the mfg. brochure and it is designed to accommodate 4x8 plywood sheets. It actually comes in two 49" sections with a metal joiner. My plan is to use it as two 49" pieces to "trap" a 36" flex track sections. I hope to hold down the straight edges with push pins.
http://www.johnsonlevel.com/P/133/HeavyDutyCuttingGuide
riogrande5761 I've found that laying arrow straight track isn't at all difficult, at least the way I do it, and I wasn't trained by any guru's.
I've found that laying arrow straight track isn't at all difficult, at least the way I do it, and I wasn't trained by any guru's.
Agreed. We don't need NASA precision for track to pass the eyeball test. I've successfully built three layouts and I've never even used a centerline for laying the track.
As far as a centerline, its never been that difficult to just eyeball the space between the tie ends and roadbed edge, so I've never bothered to use the seem in the middle as a guide.
Besides, I always thought a center line was drawn mainly for laying curves, where you have to separate the roadbed into halves for it to curve sharply, in which case you would want something as a reference point to keep the curve consistent. But for straights, the eyeball detects wiggle in the track just fine for me.
- Douglas
In case it was missed, and it might have been since there is a whole new topic on it, I obtain a nice long "true" piece of lumber to use as a straight edge and draw centerlines using it. If I have multple parallel tracks, I measure over my chosen distance (e.g. 2.0 inches) and make a mark about every 12-18 inches and then lay that long piece of lumber down and draw another straight centerline.
As long as I make sure that I nail the track down so the nail is on the center line, the track will be straight. And since I used Atlas track nails there is a bit of wiggle if I need to tweak it a bit as I sight down the rail to visually make sure the track is dead nuts straight. It works for me very well.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
hon30critter Sheldon, laying track that straight is just plain disgusting! Seriously, that is excellent track work. Dave
Sheldon, laying track that straight is just plain disgusting!
Seriously, that is excellent track work.
Dave
Thank you for the kind words.
To quote Paul Mallory, "excellent trackwork a must"..........
The secret:
Proper materials, good methods, patience, practice, and careful design and layout.
richhotrain I offered $10,000, Oh No!!! Not the dreaded Fiji warbonds!!
richhotrain I offered $10,000,
Oh No!!! Not the dreaded Fiji warbonds!!
richhotrain ...lay "laser straight" track on my 10 downtown passenger station tracks running 12 feet each into the train shed.
Actually I have full confidence that you can and will achieve that goal, yourself!
Long ago, I offered $10,000, no questions asked, to the first person who could teach me to drive a golf ball 200 yards into the fairway on all 14 par 4 and par 5 holes in a single round. I still have that money in my account.
So, I am extending that offer to the first person who can teach me to lay "laser straight" track on my 10 downtown passenger station tracks running 12 feet each into the train shed.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Ribbon rail fits between the rails, like sweep sticks. Ribbon rail are made from metal.
Mike.
My You Tube