There are so many things that get repeated in model railroading, but are total untrue. I hear the same things over and over and they have no bearing on facts. One that comes to mind as an example is toxic gases from cutting foam. People are always talking about the gasses that come out, and they do, but only if you exced 467 degrees, thats why I use Woodland Scenics foam cutter, as it only gets to 425 degrees.
The one that gets me is when the topic of track noise comes up and everyone has an opinion on how the layout should be built to eliminate track noise. However when room acoustics are mentioned as being a big factor in layout noise, people just don't want to hear or talk about it.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
That is another of my pet pieves, people don't seem to relize that the way they build their benchwork has anything to do with it, most don't even use a sound meter which is an app now. Boils down to, if you build a drum, why do you not expect it to sound like one.
One belief is the expense and engineering needd for building a secure layout , and challenge of finding proper tools. I made my layout without using power tools or high-end lumber. Home Depot cut the 2x4 legs and I did the rest at home. The most expensive part of the layout was the foam sub-roadbed.
Anyone with basic home improvement tools should be fine. I 'cheated' somewhat in building the layout by asking a shop teacher and engineer for suggestions. Who doesn't want to get free advice?! They made this mechanically-limited person build a solid layout.
Hello all,
•You can't have a "real" layout in a 4x8 space.
•A 3% grade, 15-inch radius curves and #2 turnouts can't work.
•Bachmann Dynamis is not "real" DCC.
For a rebuttal, see my signature!
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I think the biggest myth of all is that the hobby has become much more expensive than it used to be. The fact is that if you adjust for inflation, the model railroading dollar goes just as far as it used to if you compare like items. The MR digital archives allow those with access to it to go back in time and see what things cost in any given year. There are also numerous free online inflation calculators that compare today's dollars to what they were in just about any year going back to when MR was first published.
What has change is that there is so much more high end stuff available today that wasn't decades ago. Sound equipped DCC locomotives weren't around in the 1980s and earlier. RTR rolling stock and built-up structures are much more prevalent now than they were way back when. Naturally these items are going to cost more because we get more. Many of the structure kits today are the same ones we had years ago. Non-sound DC locomotives are similar to what they were in years gone by. If you compare the prices of those and adjust for inflation you will find they cost pretty much the same as what they did 30, 40, or even 50 years ago.
pink or blue foam...I have both plus some gray
must use #1 select lumber and cabnit grade plywood...built mine from scraps didn't cost a dime, except for screws
toxic fumes in case of a fire..if thats your biggest worry while the house burns
the one that really gets me; you should build a ''shed'' before starting to scratch build; I have not built one yet, didn't need one
I like that lots of folks think that if a product is called something like Gorilla Nails, then it must be far superior to a product NOT called Gorilla Nails.
Now introducing:
TYRANNOSAURUS TITANIUM BOLTS GLUE
Ed
jecorbett I think the biggest myth of all is that the hobby has become much more expensive than it used to be. The fact is ...
I think the biggest myth of all is that the hobby has become much more expensive than it used to be. The fact is ...
It isn't a myth that the cost of new train products has been outstripping my take home pay by a large margin over the past 15 years.
That said, there is a ton of inexpensive stuff on the secondary Market and the value you get for the newer stuff is quite good.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Refering to the digital achives disproves your point, doesn't it? A hobby is about what you want. A magazine subscription was good enough; it was all there was. Now besides your magazine subscription you want access to archives and premium videos via the internet on your smart phone which didn't exist back then either.
When we were kids, we had a World Book Encyclopedia and a bicycle. Now kids have a monutain bike, a cellphone, a computer, a subscription to netflix and $150 tennis shoes. Relative to inflation, I'll bet the price of bikes went down, but it still costs more to "equip" a kid.
Broadway Lion is a notable exception like using nails for contacts. He is not the only one, but if most real enthusiasts were doing it his way, DCC couldn't survive. Most of us want what we see other people have, locos that make noise, auto reversing circuits. The standard of living, if you will, for the hobby has evolved and improved. You do get more today, i agree, but it costs.
If you look at the world standard of living, where more people are going to have cell phones than have electricity, it has evolved too, but I don't think improved would be the first word that would come to mind.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
One monster myth is that benchwork has to be built like the floor of an upstairs bedroom. It has to be stiff - but that can be achieved without the use of massive timbers or 3/4 inch plywood. Our little trains weigh ounces, not tons, and the scenery they run through only weighs a few pounds per square foot. Of course, if you want to climb up and jump around on your benchwork...
As for cost, it has always been possible to economize:
I haven't always done these things, but I sure do now!
As for the 4x8 with 15 inch radii and 3% grades, the Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo isn't a 4x8, but it does have 350mm (14 inch minus) radii and 4% grades - designed to be a challenge for teakettle 0-6-0Ts.
Last, a quote from The Green Dragon:
I have never done the impossible. If I did it, it was possible.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - inexpensively)
Hi tomikawa TT
you seem to forget the imposible is done daily miricales take about a week.
regards John
riogrande5761 jecorbett I think the biggest myth of all is that the hobby has become much more expensive than it used to be. The fact is ... It isn't a myth that the cost of new train products has been outstripping my take home pay by a large margin over the past 15 years. That said, there is a ton of inexpensive stuff on the secondary Market and the value you get for the newer stuff is quite good.
That's really the issue. How much money do you have left after taxes, bills, food, etc. to spend on leisure pursuits. And that has been declining.
Paul
Hi, John,
Another quote from The Green Dragon:
Impossible is defined as, 'I haven't done that yet.'
(Who's The Green Dragon? Her Valor, the Honorable Senior Command Admiral Yumiko T, Carlsen, Order of Merit. As of 3626, she's the Congressmember representing the planet Sierra. Any resemblance to the lady I married 54+ years ago is purely deliberate.)
Chuck (Sometimes science fiction author modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Kasskaboose
That one really is a myth OK my bench work does get a bit on the expencive side of things
But that is because I choose to use 75 x 75 x 3 aluminium in place of the massive timber L girder and use ally gussetes and leg plates
I do go for the slightly more expencive wood, not the most expencive just the slightly more expencive and I do tend to over engineer it a bit Note my choice.
I am no master builder, engineer or anything else for that matter you don't need to be, half the time High school wood work is over qualified for model railroad bench work
All you need to be able to do measure and cut acurately
Screw and glue joints are about the most complicated joints needed if you are getting fancy thats cross drilling a bit of wood shoving a dowel in so when joining on end grain the screw goes into the side of dowel for a secure fix.
And have the abilety to think through a problem all things the average Joe is usually capable of doing.
You did not cheat you had a problem thought it through and found a solution that gave the solid bench you needed job done.
As for tools I got all mine bar one from Bunnings this time looking for the best I could afford, not sure what the US equivilent would be it's a big hardware warehouse type store.
Even the odd one which came from a specialty tool store was not that expencive
I don't scimp with tools buy good ones look after them and you won't need new ones till the kids get hold of them when their old enough.
Hi UNCLEBUTCH
I did build a shed before scratch building 15m x 7.6m But I don't think that's what you meant.
I have to say the shed / out house, wash house is a good intro to scratch building
Most layouts would need them in the residential area and railroads use a lot of small structures that could be lumped in to the general shed type structures area.
Never used pink or blue foam I just use packing foam and cut it outside, because it smells unpleasant hot wire cutting foam of any description.
The use of good quality wood I class as a must, It's the must buy bit I think is the myth here
I think most of us have scrounged for some stuff for the layout at some time.
Toxic fumes true.
I would have said the bigger problem was the house burning down and the fumes from the building and building matierials treatments.
Or more to the point does the house insurance cover this.
You all forgot the biggest myth of all:
"THE HOBBY IS DYING!!!"
John,
Well said good friend! You are right about the importance of not scimping with tools. There really aren't many you need specifically for model trains except rail nipper, plastic nipper, coupler gauge and track gauge. Of course there are a few others, but you don't need a ton of new tools to enjoy the hobby. Many other hobbies have their dedicated tools also which is fine.
I appreciate the kind words!
One myth I hear is dcc is simpler to wire than dc.
After runnng larger gage buss wire, and running feeders to the track every 3 feet no it is not. Good wiring is needed no matter if you are running dc or dcc. I am dcc and love it.
Seems to me that many of the guys on this forum have the "Homer Simpson Syndrome". You know, "Quick, say something before they think you are stupid".
Charlie
IRONROOSTER riogrande5761 jecorbett I think the biggest myth of all is that the hobby has become much more expensive than it used to be. The fact is ... It isn't a myth that the cost of new train products has been outstripping my take home pay by a large margin over the past 15 years. That said, there is a ton of inexpensive stuff on the secondary Market and the value you get for the newer stuff is quite good. That's really the issue. How much money do you have left after taxes, bills, food, etc. to spend on leisure pursuits. And that has been declining. Paul
kasskaboose John, Well said good friend! You are right about the importance of not scimping with tools. There really aren't many you need specifically for model trains except rail nipper, plastic nipper, coupler gauge and track gauge. Of course there are a few others, but you don't need a ton of new tools to enjoy the hobby. Many other hobbies have their dedicated tools also which is fine. I appreciate the kind words!
BigDaddy Refering to the digital achives disproves your point, doesn't it? A hobby is about what you want. A magazine subscription was good enough; it was all there was. Now besides your magazine subscription you want access to archives and premium videos via the internet on your smart phone which didn't exist back then either. When we were kids, we had a World Book Encyclopedia and a bicycle. Now kids have a monutain bike, a cellphone, a computer, a subscription to netflix and $150 tennis shoes. Relative to inflation, I'll bet the price of bikes went down, but it still costs more to "equip" a kid. Broadway Lion is a notable exception like using nails for contacts. He is not the only one, but if most real enthusiasts were doing it his way, DCC couldn't survive. Most of us want what we see other people have, locos that make noise, auto reversing circuits. The standard of living, if you will, for the hobby has evolved and improved. You do get more today, i agree, but it costs. If you look at the world standard of living, where more people are going to have cell phones than have electricity, it has evolved too, but I don't think improved would be the first word that would come to mind.
I don't have to pay pay extra for the All Access Pass. I choose to. I could just as well choose to go with just the print edition and I would be getting what I always used to. Nothing says you have to have the latest and greatest products. Those are choices we make. If you want to build a layout with the types of products that were used a generation ago, it will cost you pretty much what it cost you back then if you adjust for inflation. Many of the same structure kits are available. Non-sound DC locomotives are still available. We no longer have Athearn blue box kits but Accurail has filled that void. Now if you want to upgrade to sound equipped DCC locos with all the bells and whistles, take advantage of timesavers like RTR rolling stock and pre-built structures, yes you are going to pay more for those and you should. But there is nothing that says you can't build a layout the old fashioned way and if you do your dollar will go just as far as it used to.
rrebell IRONROOSTER That's really the issue. How much money do you have left after taxes, bills, food, etc. to spend on leisure pursuits. And that has been declining. Paul Funny, mine has been going up but then I have discovered the magic of munis.
IRONROOSTER That's really the issue. How much money do you have left after taxes, bills, food, etc. to spend on leisure pursuits. And that has been declining. Paul
Funny, mine has been going up but then I have discovered the magic of munis.
What is this magic?
riogrande5761 rrebell IRONROOSTER That's really the issue. How much money do you have left after taxes, bills, food, etc. to spend on leisure pursuits. And that has been declining. Paul Funny, mine has been going up but then I have discovered the magic of munis. What is this magic?
riogrande5761 ... It isn't a myth that the cost of new train products has been outstripping my take home pay by a large margin over the past 15 years. ...
...
It doesn't follow that the toys, themselves, are the only spending factors that have changed for you in that time. It is more likely your spending priorities have changed, and/or that those items are more costly, now discarded and replaced by something else entirely (that cost much more than the items discarded), or you are in a relatively new financial circumstance that has impacted your discretionary spending. As others have pointed out innumberable times over the time I have been participating in this forum, and quite convincingly, the hobby costs are roughly the same when adjusted, and with some variance. For example, BLI's locomotives are quite a bit more expensive than they were just five years ago. I suspect they had to do it to cover costs of all kinds, including inflation and wage demands in the countries where their stock is/was produced. There was litigation with Mike, and they had a bad run or three while they were finding a new supplier which cost them a bundle in repairs and replacements.
selector riogrande5761 It isn't a myth that the cost of new train products has been outstripping my take home pay by a large margin over the past 15 years It doesn't follow that the toys, themselves, are the only spending factors that have changed for you in that time. It is more likely your spending priorities have changed, and/or that those items are more costly, now discarded and replaced by something else entirely (that cost much more than the items discarded), or you are in a relatively new financial circumstance that has impacted your discretionary spending. As others have pointed out innumberable times over the time I have been participating in this forum, and quite convincingly, the hobby costs are roughly the same when adjusted, and with some variance. For example, BLI's locomotives are quite a bit more expensive than they were just five years ago. I suspect they had to do it to cover costs of all kinds, including inflation and wage demands in the countries where their stock is/was produced. There was litigation with Mike, and they had a bad run or three while they were finding a new supplier which cost them a bundle in repairs and replacements.
riogrande5761 It isn't a myth that the cost of new train products has been outstripping my take home pay by a large margin over the past 15 years
It isn't a myth that the cost of new train products has been outstripping my take home pay by a large margin over the past 15 years
Yes, I've read those discussions on what money bought years back vs. now. It's also clear to observers that some things have remained at similar prices where others have gone up much faster. The average HQ freight cars are now tracking between $35 and 45 ea. Hey, I'm not complaining, and I like the value what I get. I just take issue with the statement that "the biggest myth of all is that the hobby has become much more expensive than it used to be." Sure, I've been one of the first to challenge people who think that the hobby used to be cheap - and point to 3 dollar Athearn box cars etc. But I'm playing "the devils advocate" here and saying it's not that simple.
Oh, and I've been buying mostly Genesis, Intermountain and Atlas rolling stock for the last 12 years so my buying habits haven't changed significantly other than I've added a few Tangent pieces to my collection in the past couple years. My spending priorities haven't changed, and my income has been up and down and up and down over those 12 years within the same ball park.
Let me give an example of a cost increase far and above pay increase. Athearn used to produce RTR 2-packs of 10 trailers for MSRP about $22 to $26 - sure, increasing over time. The recent runs are now selling MRSP for a single. Thats a two fold increase. Walthers P2K tend to be quiet expensive too. Some of Bachmanns prices on new freight cars are nearly the same as Tangent, and yet they are Bachmann - sure, Tangent are top shelve so you expect them to be more, but Bachmann? SMH. Ok, they have more mark up. Steam engines are getting very expensive too, good thing I'm not into steam - many now in the $400-600 MSRP range.
Anyway, I do think there is merit that the hobby prices are increasing much faster than other products on the market - that certainly hasn't escaped me, and why I had to comment about jcorbets post. That said, I am not complaining - I usually challenge those who whine about prices just so you know. I just thought I'd throw a little spoke in the gears about that myth.
People pay, what they are willing to pay. People are always complaining about the cost of food, but I have found most food stuffs are the same price as 20 years ago, the main exception being beef, especialy hamburger. As for train stuff the MSRP has gone up but the street price hasn't changed much on a lot of things and those that have, have a much more detailed product. My most expencive freight are those Tangent three dome tank cars, but I sold 3 MDC per car so it is a wash as I had them to kitbash a three dome.
rrebell People pay, what they are willing to pay. People are always complaining about the cost of food, but I have found most food stuffs are the same price as 20 years ago, the main exception being beef, especialy hamburger. As for train stuff the MSRP has gone up but the street price hasn't changed much on a lot of things and those that have, have a much more detailed product. My most expencive freight are those Tangent three dome tank cars, but I sold 3 MDC per car so it is a wash as I had them to kitbash a three dome.
Yes, very true. Heck, I still pay $1.09 for a bean burrito at Taco Bell and they've been around that price for the past 20 years. No complaints there! Cereal, Milk, still pretty much the same. Gas is all over the map so not really a good thing to look at. I'm not complaining about train prices and am willing to pay them - but for the more detailed stuff like Tangent, ER, Genesis, Moloco, I just can't afford very many but they are nice.
In some ways the hobby has gone up faster than income, so it's not completely a myth. OTOH, there are lots of inexpensive stuff out on the secondary market for those on a tight budget.