Almost finished building Walthers Merchants Row 2 and when set in place near some DPM buildings, they seem to be visually a different scale though I measured them and they are not. Many of the Walthers windows measure out to 30" wide but Dpm are much wider. Looks a little strange to me but may not mater when all is built, opinions?????????
Buildings can differ greatly in detail and measurements of key features depending on age, purpose, and architect. A 30" wide window is pretty standard, but 4' wide is not unheard of.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I think that if the buildings are similar from an architectural perspective, i.e. from roughly the same era, then you will be the only one to notice the different window widths.
Detailing the windows with signs or blinds and maybe some interiors will make the different window widths blend in.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Go out and look at some prototype buildings. You'll see buildings fom different eras with different sized windows and doors. Many two storey buildings from the early 1900's are taller than two storey buildings from the 50's and 60's, because they have more decorative cornices.
The different sizes of windows, doors, and other features will make your towns look more realistic.
rrebell Almost finished building Walthers Merchants Row 2 and when set in place near some DPM buildings, they seem to be visually a different scale though I measured them and they are not. Many of the Walthers windows measure out to 30" wide but Dpm are much wider. Looks a little strange to me but may not mater when all is built, opinions?????????
One also has to remember the reason why older buildings had bigger - both taller and/or wider - was the need for light!
Back in the day - there were no electric lights - and if one was lucky gas lights - neither of which gave off the light that modern day lights do!
Thus the need for large windows to let in as much light as possible!
Our Club was located in a 3 floor location for a few years and the windows were 8 feet high
During the bright sunny day - you almost needed sunglasses as it was that bright! ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Some of the cheap Bachmann Plasticville buildings are undersized. An HO scale postal truck placed in front of the Plasticville Post Office will be taller than the buidling roof.
Several years ago a club member placed some Plasticville business district building sets on our club layout and it immediately became obvious that they were undersized, so they were eventually removed as we were able to obtain different structures.
Different manufactures have different ideas. Magnason models (since bought out by Walthers to become the Cornerstone series) were intentionally under scale, the idea being that the building was not going to be at the edge of the table but deeper in the field of vosion and thus forced the perspective a little. This also allowed them to put more buildings next to each other, and would allow taller buildings to look natural on a layout.
DPM models were built by the same people who started Magnason, but this was a new product line that was not in competition with Cornerstone. These buildings are closer to the actual scale size. A paradigm adjustment as it were. I have the old Magnazon town houses next to the DPM town houses and you can see the difference that you have spoken of. Put the DPM models closer to you, and the Cornerston models deeper in the field of vision, and it will work out for you.
European models are, well, different, as they use els or cubits or some other wiert system of measurement that is not well understod by American LIONS.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion Different manufactures have different ideas. Magnason models (since bought out by Walthers to become the Cornerstone series) were intentionally under scale, the idea being that the building was not going to be at the edge of the table but deeper in the field of vosion and thus forced the perspective a little. This also allowed them to put more buildings next to each other, and would allow taller buildings to look natural on a layout. DPM models were built by the same people who started Magnason, but this was a new product line that was not in competition with Cornerstone. These buildings are closer to the actual scale size. A paradigm adjustment as it were. I have the old Magnazon town houses next to the DPM town houses and you can see the difference that you have spoken of. Put the DPM models closer to you, and the Cornerston models deeper in the field of vision, and it will work out for you. European models are, well, different, as they use els or cubits or some other wiert system of measurement that is not well understod by American LIONS. ROAR
rrebellI don't think the Cornerstone are undersize, I know housing and the dementions are to scale but they are of a smaller prototype.
Fooled you, didn't they! They are that well proportioned. I'd try to prove it to you, but I have not seen my HO scale scale in many decades. It's just gotta be in a box somewhere. But maybe someone has the buildings and the scale and can privide us with the dimensions.
No fooling, I just measured them out a little while ago. Cornerstone uses a lot of 30" windows and DPM buildings uses 36", DPM's modular stuffs window are even larger. The height is the same per floor but Cornerstone tends to not have as high a first floor. There is a proto type for each. I was toying with the idea to add a basement foundation to the cornerstone to blend them a bit more.
Check the height of the doors and windows.
36" windows seem a bit wide to me, I think the space between the floors is different too.
I will go get a photo frm my layout to show you what i mean.
When you consider that on average, model trees are shorter than prototype, our model city blocks are smaller, streets and sidewalks often narrower, things closer together such as utility poles, manhole covers, etc., station platforms are shorter -- and that we have towns and cities closer together than real ones would be, our curves are sharper, "big" industries would be no such thing in reality, and so on it makes sense to have structures that are slightly undersized overall so long as the doors are of a size that an HO figure can walk through. And I think there are many such structures out there. Even if the windows and doors measure out to a prototype height and width, often the floors are crammed a bit closer together particularly for two story houses.
Anyone who has scratchbuilt a structure that they know well and have made it to exact size knows the feeling -- it sometimes looks totally out of place on the layout ----- suddenly a four unit apartment looks bigger than a factory!
Dave Nelson
Alot of times it is not about scale. One other handicap modelers have is, dose it look right or not. Real world people don't deal with that in most cases. I remember back in Baltimore a corner house. The first floor was over 14' tall. Not the norm and the front doors were massive, this was right next to much smaller row homes. In fact on the same steet I owned three buildings, two were 4 stories tall and next to each other, my other was the second building down and only two stories, other details were alot different too like the sise of the windows. In the 4 story one woindows on the first floor were over 8' tall with the interior space being around 11'. The one two down had a little over 8' interior and window about 6' tall, also the 4 story windows looked even bigger with their decorations, adding to the masive look. Talk 6' wide center window vs 3' on the other.
BroadwayLion Check the height of the doors and windows. 36" windows seem a bit wide to me, I think the space between the floors is different too. I will go get a photo frm my layout to show you what i mean. ROAR
Left is a Magnason model, a sample kit that they offered so that people could try their hand at building resin molded kits. Right is a DPM model They do not look natural together, although I like the smaller model better.
Here is a row of townhouses. Magnason left, DPM right
BroadwayLion BroadwayLion Check the height of the doors and windows. 36" windows seem a bit wide to me, I think the space between the floors is different too. I will go get a photo frm my layout to show you what i mean. ROAR
Looks fine to me: http://goo.gl/maps/9zykx
Looks like N-scale on the left and HO on the right. Or maybe HO on the left and S on the right.
If any one is selling these as the same scale, then I'm sure they do a great job in bridge selling.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
yes those two look like N and HO but the pic of the row houses with both answered my question, looks like it is fine once all is painted.
Wow! If my father had known he would be limited to nothing but 30" wide windows, he would never have become an architect. I just recently prepared a noise study for a residential project with bedroom windows 8 feet wide by five feet high. Since the only building component that even comes close to a standard dimension is an exterior swing door at 3'-0" wide by 6'-8" high, check the doors on each model. If they scale out close to these dimensions, they can be accepted as the same scale, regardless of the window dimensions, wall heights, ceiling heights and roof height dimensions.
Hornblower
Hi,
I tend to agree - there appears to be a small difference in scale between some structures from different manufacturers. I think some of it may be real - in that selective compression was used in the structure itself, and some of it may be an illusion, caused by varying levels of detail and/or structures from different eras.
In example, I have an old AHM brewery structure, that by itself looks OK, but with Cornerstone or laser kits nearby, it looks out of place. The barrels look too big, the deck rails look oversize, and the doors/windows look smallish. They may well be accurate representations of a real structure, but I doubt it.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44 Hi, I tend to agree - there appears to be a small difference in scale between some structures from different manufacturers. I think some of it may be real - in that selective compression was used in the structure itself, and some of it may be an illusion, caused by varying levels of detail and/or structures from different eras. In example, I have an old AHM brewery structure, that by itself looks OK, but with Cornerstone or laser kits nearby, it looks out of place. The barrels look too big, the deck rails look oversize, and the doors/windows look smallish. They may well be accurate representations of a real structure, but I doubt it.
When I first started model railroading there was still a school of thought to build structures in 1/8 inch to the foot for HO. The logic was twofold --architects rules were available in that scale (true) and it was close enough, but just undersize to help a building fit in the scene, but not look abnormal. Tried it, but always seemed undersize to me.
Like I said they all measure out to scale but some represent large buildings found in citys and some small towns. Taped together part of DPM's powerhouse, it dewarfs everything else, even though it is as far away as possible. Trying out a different foundation on the cornerstone, we shall see. Now the next question is do all the Merchants row sets look about the sam height, I have found DPM's individual buildings are all over the place in size and some of those look funny together especially Carol's corner cafe.
I think what it all comes down to, is your structures need to look "right" to you. They may or may not be scale accurate or prototypically correct, but it is the "owner" who needs to make the final call.
I've got almost a dozen structures that had a home on my previous layout that now sit far back in the corner under my current layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain rrebell Almost finished building Walthers Merchants Row 2 and when set in place near some DPM buildings, they seem to be visually a different scale though I measured them and they are not. Many of the Walthers windows measure out to 30" wide but Dpm are much wider. Looks a little strange to me but may not mater when all is built, opinions????????? Look no further than the buildings in front of Dearborn Station in Chicago. Take a look at the building to the left of the Lee's Jeans sign. There are tons of small windows. Now, look at the buildings to the right of the Lee's Jeans signs, fewer but larger windows. And, those buildings all appear out of scale with one another. Rich
Look no further than the buildings in front of Dearborn Station in Chicago. Take a look at the building to the left of the Lee's Jeans sign. There are tons of small windows. Now, look at the buildings to the right of the Lee's Jeans signs, fewer but larger windows. And, those buildings all appear out of scale with one another.
rrebell richhotrain rrebell Almost finished building Walthers Merchants Row 2 and when set in place near some DPM buildings, they seem to be visually a different scale though I measured them and they are not. Many of the Walthers windows measure out to 30" wide but Dpm are much wider. Looks a little strange to me but may not mater when all is built, opinions????????? Look no further than the buildings in front of Dearborn Station in Chicago. Take a look at the building to the left of the Lee's Jeans sign. There are tons of small windows. Now, look at the buildings to the right of the Lee's Jeans signs, fewer but larger windows. And, those buildings all appear out of scale with one another. Rich That is true but as modelers we need to project an impresion in a small space of a much larger space so when things just don't seem to blend well, it calls out to the veiwer in a way that says this is not relistic, even if it is like real life. This is why most dogs modeled are in a certain range of size and type (at least in HO, even though they range in real life from teacup size to mastif size. The two extreams would seem out of place.
That is true but as modelers we need to project an impresion in a small space of a much larger space so when things just don't seem to blend well, it calls out to the veiwer in a way that says this is not relistic, even if it is like real life. This is why most dogs modeled are in a certain range of size and type (at least in HO, even though they range in real life from teacup size to mastif size. The two extreams would seem out of place.
Of course a tea cup size dog in HO would require a microscope to be seen. What I have noticed is that yes there is some variations in window size etc but that is probably because of different eras uses etc.
Joe Staten Island West
That is true. It is hard to judge these things before you own them.
Lake Looks like N-scale on the left and HO on the right. Or maybe HO on the left and S on the right. If any one is selling these as the same scale, then I'm sure they do a great job in bridge selling.
It would be nice to see this pic with HO people - preferably Preiser - in front of the buildings. That would give a better perspective re the door heights, since the doors seem to be very different, and the height of the first floors of the buildings.
Could the building on the left be HO and the one on the right OO?? I know there are some older "HO" models (like I think the Mantua "Belle of the Nineties" 4-6-0) that are/were actually OO linear scale.
You know they could be the same scale but different prototypes. I have seen front doors on buildings 11'+ high and over 4' wide. the first floor doors on my first house were over 10' instead of the typical 6' 8". I have been in a house were they were almost 14'.