rrebell Now that is a weird prototype!
Now that is a weird prototype!
That happens usually when the developers/city tear down the old building and are rebuilding the structure to modern standards, but are saving the front facade for histerical purposes.
- Douglas
Software Tools rrebell I have found DPM's individual buildings are all over the place in size and some of those look funny together especially Carol's corner cafe. Real buildings are also all over the place in size. If you pick a dozen buildings from different towns/cities in different regions, and put them together they would in all likelihood show the same variations as the DPM kits. Similarly putting the adjoining Magnuson row like town houses with basements (which are clearly from an older urban area) right next to the DPM "stand alone" town houses without basements (from a newer urban area) is going to look a bit odd simply because you are extremely unlikely to ever see that happen in reality! Modellers get to be their own town planners - if you outsource your town planning to a kit manufacture(s), you are bound to get very odd results. On the other hand, if you pick buildings carefully to fit into an overall vision for your model town(s), then you can create something that satisfies your own sense of urban style
rrebell I have found DPM's individual buildings are all over the place in size and some of those look funny together especially Carol's corner cafe.
Real buildings are also all over the place in size. If you pick a dozen buildings from different towns/cities in different regions, and put them together they would in all likelihood show the same variations as the DPM kits.
Similarly putting the adjoining Magnuson row like town houses with basements (which are clearly from an older urban area) right next to the DPM "stand alone" town houses without basements (from a newer urban area) is going to look a bit odd simply because you are extremely unlikely to ever see that happen in reality!
Modellers get to be their own town planners - if you outsource your town planning to a kit manufacture(s), you are bound to get very odd results. On the other hand, if you pick buildings carefully to fit into an overall vision for your model town(s), then you can create something that satisfies your own sense of urban style
Whiskey Row Louisville KY
Up until the 1930s buildings meant to show the prosperity of their owners were designed with tall doors and windows - but the doorknob would still be at the usual height (about three feet.)
The apartment I spent most of my childhood in had nine foot ceilings. The main lobby was even taller. More recent construction would chop a foot off that height. This shows in the overall vertical dimension - a modern seven story building is barely taller than the 90 year old six story building next door.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
One more thought for Lion. Looking at your buildings close up, it appears the doorknob for the larger building is indeed higher than for the smaller building. The window and door height seem more in proportion to the other background buildings. So I'd say the one on the left is in a smaller scale. Though the door on the larger does seem out of proportion to itself height to width.
jim
So all that being said, I am working on a fix and have ordered the Merchants 1 and 4. I can add 12" (in scale of course) to the building on the bottom with a step incorperated at the doors. I will also add a strip at the roof cap of arrond 4". Last I intended to use the sidewalks supplied with the kit but the curb is not high enough so will add a couple of inches there to make it aprox. a 6" curb. All this adds over 18" to the height and looks fine next to most of the DPM stuff.
jmbjmb Ok I just went to the layout and measured out my Merchants Row III (which someone mentioned was really a relabeled Heljan kit rather than Magnuson) vs the Crooksville plans in MR. It seems to be pretty dead on to the MR drawings scale wise, but as mentioned earliery, has windows (at least they look that way to me) where the original plans show doors. The MR article does say the drawings were slightly taller than the prototype (small/tall philosophy??) which may distort the perspective.
Ok I just went to the layout and measured out my Merchants Row III (which someone mentioned was really a relabeled Heljan kit rather than Magnuson) vs the Crooksville plans in MR. It seems to be pretty dead on to the MR drawings scale wise, but as mentioned earliery, has windows (at least they look that way to me) where the original plans show doors. The MR article does say the drawings were slightly taller than the prototype (small/tall philosophy??) which may distort the perspective.
The Crooksville Bank/Merchants Row III has a different ancestry than Merchants Row I and II, so I don't think the issue applies to MRIII.
I think the issue that Lion was pointing out was the ex-Magnuson based structures were originally designed from a smaller prototype or were intentionally slightly reduced in scale.
I think Lion is actually on to something (other than a Wildebeast!). The ex-magnuson Walthers kits seem to be a touch smaller than other kits. I have the Walthers turret corner building and it is slightly smaller than most DPM counterparts. And I think Merchants Row I and II might be on the small side too.
Its not so much the size of the windows and doors (which are slightly smaller), but the spacing between the windows vertically.
Yes, I'm sure different buildings had different ceiling heights back in the day...so these kits don't look strange next to each other...but I do think the ex-magnuson Walthers kits might all be on the smaller side....or at least modeled after their smaller prototypes.
You know they could be the same scale but different prototypes. I have seen front doors on buildings 11'+ high and over 4' wide. the first floor doors on my first house were over 10' instead of the typical 6' 8". I have been in a house were they were almost 14'.
Lake Looks like N-scale on the left and HO on the right. Or maybe HO on the left and S on the right. If any one is selling these as the same scale, then I'm sure they do a great job in bridge selling.
Looks like N-scale on the left and HO on the right. Or maybe HO on the left and S on the right.
If any one is selling these as the same scale, then I'm sure they do a great job in bridge selling.
It would be nice to see this pic with HO people - preferably Preiser - in front of the buildings. That would give a better perspective re the door heights, since the doors seem to be very different, and the height of the first floors of the buildings.
Could the building on the left be HO and the one on the right OO?? I know there are some older "HO" models (like I think the Mantua "Belle of the Nineties" 4-6-0) that are/were actually OO linear scale.
That is true. It is hard to judge these things before you own them.
rrebell richhotrain rrebell Almost finished building Walthers Merchants Row 2 and when set in place near some DPM buildings, they seem to be visually a different scale though I measured them and they are not. Many of the Walthers windows measure out to 30" wide but Dpm are much wider. Looks a little strange to me but may not mater when all is built, opinions????????? Look no further than the buildings in front of Dearborn Station in Chicago. Take a look at the building to the left of the Lee's Jeans sign. There are tons of small windows. Now, look at the buildings to the right of the Lee's Jeans signs, fewer but larger windows. And, those buildings all appear out of scale with one another. Rich That is true but as modelers we need to project an impresion in a small space of a much larger space so when things just don't seem to blend well, it calls out to the veiwer in a way that says this is not relistic, even if it is like real life. This is why most dogs modeled are in a certain range of size and type (at least in HO, even though they range in real life from teacup size to mastif size. The two extreams would seem out of place.
richhotrain rrebell Almost finished building Walthers Merchants Row 2 and when set in place near some DPM buildings, they seem to be visually a different scale though I measured them and they are not. Many of the Walthers windows measure out to 30" wide but Dpm are much wider. Looks a little strange to me but may not mater when all is built, opinions????????? Look no further than the buildings in front of Dearborn Station in Chicago. Take a look at the building to the left of the Lee's Jeans sign. There are tons of small windows. Now, look at the buildings to the right of the Lee's Jeans signs, fewer but larger windows. And, those buildings all appear out of scale with one another. Rich
rrebell Almost finished building Walthers Merchants Row 2 and when set in place near some DPM buildings, they seem to be visually a different scale though I measured them and they are not. Many of the Walthers windows measure out to 30" wide but Dpm are much wider. Looks a little strange to me but may not mater when all is built, opinions?????????
Almost finished building Walthers Merchants Row 2 and when set in place near some DPM buildings, they seem to be visually a different scale though I measured them and they are not. Many of the Walthers windows measure out to 30" wide but Dpm are much wider. Looks a little strange to me but may not mater when all is built, opinions?????????
Look no further than the buildings in front of Dearborn Station in Chicago. Take a look at the building to the left of the Lee's Jeans sign. There are tons of small windows. Now, look at the buildings to the right of the Lee's Jeans signs, fewer but larger windows. And, those buildings all appear out of scale with one another.
Rich
That is true but as modelers we need to project an impresion in a small space of a much larger space so when things just don't seem to blend well, it calls out to the veiwer in a way that says this is not relistic, even if it is like real life. This is why most dogs modeled are in a certain range of size and type (at least in HO, even though they range in real life from teacup size to mastif size. The two extreams would seem out of place.
Of course a tea cup size dog in HO would require a microscope to be seen. What I have noticed is that yes there is some variations in window size etc but that is probably because of different eras uses etc.
Joe Staten Island West
Alton Junction
I think what it all comes down to, is your structures need to look "right" to you. They may or may not be scale accurate or prototypically correct, but it is the "owner" who needs to make the final call.
I've got almost a dozen structures that had a home on my previous layout that now sit far back in the corner under my current layout.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Like I said they all measure out to scale but some represent large buildings found in citys and some small towns. Taped together part of DPM's powerhouse, it dewarfs everything else, even though it is as far away as possible. Trying out a different foundation on the cornerstone, we shall see. Now the next question is do all the Merchants row sets look about the sam height, I have found DPM's individual buildings are all over the place in size and some of those look funny together especially Carol's corner cafe.
When I first started model railroading there was still a school of thought to build structures in 1/8 inch to the foot for HO. The logic was twofold --architects rules were available in that scale (true) and it was close enough, but just undersize to help a building fit in the scene, but not look abnormal. Tried it, but always seemed undersize to me.
mobilman44 Hi, I tend to agree - there appears to be a small difference in scale between some structures from different manufacturers. I think some of it may be real - in that selective compression was used in the structure itself, and some of it may be an illusion, caused by varying levels of detail and/or structures from different eras. In example, I have an old AHM brewery structure, that by itself looks OK, but with Cornerstone or laser kits nearby, it looks out of place. The barrels look too big, the deck rails look oversize, and the doors/windows look smallish. They may well be accurate representations of a real structure, but I doubt it.
Hi,
I tend to agree - there appears to be a small difference in scale between some structures from different manufacturers. I think some of it may be real - in that selective compression was used in the structure itself, and some of it may be an illusion, caused by varying levels of detail and/or structures from different eras.
In example, I have an old AHM brewery structure, that by itself looks OK, but with Cornerstone or laser kits nearby, it looks out of place. The barrels look too big, the deck rails look oversize, and the doors/windows look smallish. They may well be accurate representations of a real structure, but I doubt it.
Wow! If my father had known he would be limited to nothing but 30" wide windows, he would never have become an architect. I just recently prepared a noise study for a residential project with bedroom windows 8 feet wide by five feet high. Since the only building component that even comes close to a standard dimension is an exterior swing door at 3'-0" wide by 6'-8" high, check the doors on each model. If they scale out close to these dimensions, they can be accepted as the same scale, regardless of the window dimensions, wall heights, ceiling heights and roof height dimensions.
Hornblower
yes those two look like N and HO but the pic of the row houses with both answered my question, looks like it is fine once all is painted.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
BroadwayLion BroadwayLion Check the height of the doors and windows. 36" windows seem a bit wide to me, I think the space between the floors is different too. I will go get a photo frm my layout to show you what i mean. ROAR
BroadwayLion Check the height of the doors and windows. 36" windows seem a bit wide to me, I think the space between the floors is different too. I will go get a photo frm my layout to show you what i mean. ROAR
Check the height of the doors and windows.
36" windows seem a bit wide to me, I think the space between the floors is different too.
I will go get a photo frm my layout to show you what i mean.
ROAR
Looks fine to me: http://goo.gl/maps/9zykx
Left is a Magnason model, a sample kit that they offered so that people could try their hand at building resin molded kits. Right is a DPM model They do not look natural together, although I like the smaller model better.
Here is a row of townhouses. Magnason left, DPM right
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Alot of times it is not about scale. One other handicap modelers have is, dose it look right or not. Real world people don't deal with that in most cases. I remember back in Baltimore a corner house. The first floor was over 14' tall. Not the norm and the front doors were massive, this was right next to much smaller row homes. In fact on the same steet I owned three buildings, two were 4 stories tall and next to each other, my other was the second building down and only two stories, other details were alot different too like the sise of the windows. In the 4 story one woindows on the first floor were over 8' tall with the interior space being around 11'. The one two down had a little over 8' interior and window about 6' tall, also the 4 story windows looked even bigger with their decorations, adding to the masive look. Talk 6' wide center window vs 3' on the other.