Why not use a grill I have 1 that has a lid with a thermostat in the lid. When I use oak and hickory limbs that I cut to length I can get the temp up to 450 easy then just place the cookie sheets of dirt on the grill and shut the lid and come back in an hour with a couple pair of channel locks to remove the trays of dirt. that way you stay out of the dog house LOL Good luck all and have a Great Day
Necessary? Not if you don't mind little crawly critters all over your house? Metal cookie pan w 4 edges turned up, 400 degrees for about a half hour. Methods? After the bake, sift through fine screen, apply as other ballast types. Best for sidings, spurs. If you put it on in THIN layers, cracking not a problem. If it does, another light layer over it, soak well with 70% rubbing alcohol, or if you're modeling Kentucky, a good bourbon.
After reading this thread I am seriously considering changing to a winter scene...something waaaaaay up north with 6' of snow covering the ground where the only thing exposed to the viewer is the freshly plowed track, ties, and ballast, some evergreen trees, rocks/mountains poking through the snow, the odd asphalt road here and there and vast expanses of white for ice fishing/snowmobiling...no dirt anywhere...! Of course myself and my guests would all be snowblind after an hour, which would create an entirely new set of potential health risks......LOL!
Happy modeling all!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
I used real dirt for years and I baked it in the oven at 350 for about 30 minutes after sifting it through a piece of window screen. Recently I switched over to using Sanded Grout from any building supply store. It comes in lots of different colors. I found it more consistent/less hassle then real dirt.
-Steve
Yes, it sure is. There are all kinds of organisms in dirt especially insect larva and eggs which will hatch and multiply in your house if you don't. Some of them will do quite well indoors and will find your house a wonderful source of food. Many things in the soil will begin to emit odors as well if the soil is unbaked.
One way to get a small sample of the odor would be to place an open jar open end down on the soil overnight and then pick it up the next morning and take a deep breath, you may not like the aroma and are only getting a small sample of it, I'll bet you would not like the house to smell like that.
Rob
I have used real dirt without any of the treatments described above with no ill effects. I handle soil samples all the time in my profession and I always have sifted dirt that I can use. Critters in the soil need moisture to grow; they also (in most cases) need oxygen and a good organic substrate as a food source. If you use any of the adhesives to fasten the dirt (known as soil in my profession), to the layout, you're eliminating the combination of conditions that are necessary for microbes to grow.
As far as the metals are concerned, I have some fellow modelers who just use plenty of adhesive along with a thorough vacuuming of the surface when dry; they have had no problems.
While I use the White Play Sand - and have to agree with the poster on color.
I have used thinned Latex Paint to stain the white sand - While it isn't the best - I cover everything with Ground Foam anyway so very little of the Sand is seen!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
ChevelleSSguy The problem with using play sand that there just isnt enough colors available to cover a perticular location a given modeler might be modeling.
The problem with using play sand that there just isnt enough colors available to cover a perticular location a given modeler might be modeling.
Hi,
I'm from England and i am just in the process of building a OO/HO layout for my daughter and because i am living on a pension i use the cheapest method i can which means using natural materials. i have natural soil from a number of locations on a stove top then sieved. I also use dried shredded leaves as ground cover natural twigs and beach sand (the sand from the dunes as far from the sea as possible to minimize the risk of salt) I also use the contents of dried tea bags water filter medium potting compost and natural ash from a preserved railroad.
On my own N gauge which is an old west layout I have used sand from various locations in south west Colorado my town area has sand from Buckskin Joe wild west town sandbanks in the river is sand from near but not on sand dunes national park and dried sagebrush. also for various colors of sand i add a few drops of food coloring to very fine sand and by varying the amount of food color there is an unlimited range of sand shades.
Using these methods i have not come across any problems and i usually paint the area to be covered with a white PVA glue sprinkle on the various pre-prepared natural products let it dry for a couple of days and then vacuum off and then save all the excess material for future use.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
selector That's just it, though...although I use the alcohol as a wetting agent prior to over-spraying with a light glue solution, it has the salutary benefit of sterilizing the soil in all respects except for the hardiest of critters and seeds. So far, not one seed has erupted on my layout...at leat, none that I have encountered. Baking should be just fine. I'm too lazy, and I want quicker results, and when coupled with the main intent of pre-wetting...two birds with the one solution. Crandell
That's just it, though...although I use the alcohol as a wetting agent prior to over-spraying with a light glue solution, it has the salutary benefit of sterilizing the soil in all respects except for the hardiest of critters and seeds. So far, not one seed has erupted on my layout...at leat, none that I have encountered.
Baking should be just fine. I'm too lazy, and I want quicker results, and when coupled with the main intent of pre-wetting...two birds with the one solution.
Crandell
I also use the 70% ISO to prewet the scenery base!
And I agree in the - "Work SMARTER - NOT HARDER" idea!
Some seem to go to such extremes to build a Layout and wonder WHY it takes so long or is so expensive!
To each his own!
I too have never baked my 'soil', and I have used my sifted and rather sandy garden soil for two layouts now. However, I do mix it with plaster of Paris to keep it in firm and in place, and I do wet it initially with isopropyl alcohol as a surfactant. I expect that first treatment, after it is rolled and shaped prior to gluing it and adding ground foam or tufts, doesn't do any resident beasties a heckuva lot of good.
Yes - this is another Model Railroading Urban Myth!
I have soil on my layout that has been there for 10 years and my Basement Humidity level is quite high even with a good dehumidifier and haven't had any bugs YET!
I usually use the WHITE PLAY SAND found at the Big Box stores and at $3.00 a 50 lb bag.
It is sanitized for those that JUST have to WORRY about BUGS and the like!
Cook it in your bar-b-que outside. Trust me - baking dirt can give off a rather odd smell that the "boss of the kitchen" would not approve of !
I only baked my dirt once, but never bothered with subsequent dirt acquisitions. I glue dirt down just like ballast by misting it with wet water, then dribbled thinned white glue on it. Being totally saturated, anything in the dirt is completely sealed by the glue.
Been on the layout for over fifteen years and nothing has taken root on its own.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I read some good advice, that was if you have a substantial amount of dirt prep to do, go to your local thrift store (Goodwill, Salvation Army, St Vincent, etc.) and by a used Toaster Oven and any pans or trays you might need to do the work, most can be had for under $10 keep that in your work area and use it to bake for dirt, rocks soil etc.
Its not just to get rid of microbes or water, you want to make sure you kill any mold or fungus spores that might be in the soil, especially if your in a humid climate, add such soil to a a humid indoor location you can quite literally get giant scale 20' high mushroom monsters sprouting up on your layout. I also prevents possible microbe or spore cross over into the stove you do your cooking in, ewww!
Also as mentioned earlier, a small toaster oven can have other uses, just a thought.
Have fun with your trains
Thanks for the input everyone. I'm going to bake some dirt today. I simply feel more comfortable not having any chance of organisms lurking (even if there aren't any)
Going to try 350 for about a half hour. That should be long enough. Using an old 9" pan that was donated by the master chef of the house for model railroad use. That was her only concern.
Happy Railroading.
-Greg
Thanks! My roads and sidewalks are made with plaster. I put together a "How-To".
http://journals.fotki.com/daveinthehat/how-i-make-roads/
My pictures: http://public.fotki.com/DaveInTheHat/
My videos & slideshows: http://www.youtube.com/user/daveinthehat/videos
My book: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/411321
Dave in the Hat,
May I digress from the dirt issue.......... Your streets/sidewalks are outstanding! What can you tell us about them?
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I had a problem using real dirt in a diorama. Unwanted things started growing including some sort of mold looking stuff.
Since then I take a 5 gallon bucket fill it about half way with dirt. I fill it with water and a couple drops of dawn. Anything that isn't dirt floats and can be skimmed off the top. I stir it with a board until nothing else floats. Then I let it settle for a couple hours and pour off the water. I take a pie plate and fill it with wet dirt. Kinda looks like a big mud pie. I use an old microwave and cook it until all the water is gone. What I'm left with is clean dry dirt. After that I use different screens and sift it. That way I have a couple containers with unsifted, large, medium, small, fine and super fine dirt.
I've gotten a bit of negative criticism for doing all this to dirt. I've also been told it's completely unnecessary. Since I've been doing this I haven't had any problems with "stuff" growing in my dioramas. I've also noticed that it takes glue better when its cleaned dirt vs. raw dirt.
SUX V R40 Rider I think we are all forgetting the most important thing here about cooking or baking dirt in an oven or microwave. Discussing it with the woman of the house first. Especially if she is the OP's wife or mother. I know my wife would not want/allow me to cook dirt in our microwave or oven, even if I did ask or discuss it with her.
I think we are all forgetting the most important thing here about cooking or baking dirt in an oven or microwave. Discussing it with the woman of the house first. Especially if she is the OP's wife or mother. I know my wife would not want/allow me to cook dirt in our microwave or oven, even if I did ask or discuss it with her.
True enough.
Or you can bypass the issue. Do what I did - buy a cheap toaster oven for modelling use. There are lots of uses for a small amount of managed heat in modelling. And your RR doesn't end up smelling of garlic and oregano
Alan
Since I model Oklahoma railroading, but live in Kansas City, I have to make "dirt" runs down home to Okie land every so often. I use the fine red dirt. My wife, a true KC woman, gets out along oil lease roads when we go down home, and collects coffe cans of that fine red dirt while I watch for the fuzz and those big fuzzy spiders that my wife doesn't know about. We bring it back to KC, I run a magnet, sift it, bake it in the oven and store it in containers. Most visitors recognize it as Oklahoma when they come into the room and visit for the first time.
Have been doing it for over 20 years, no adverse effects.
Bob
I've never had a problem using real dirt, sifted of course to remove out-of-scale particles. I've developed a technique that works well for me, at least...I use an old modeling paint brush, which I dip into a 50/50 white glue/water mix. I then dip the brush into my container of loose soil, and "paint" the layout surface. I repeat as necessary. This works especially well when adding soil to slopes...for a runoff erosion effect, just add more of the glue/water mix. When dry, the soil looks loose but is completely bonded to the homasote, foam, plywood or whatever.
Hi again,
Baking your dirt (1 hr at 250F) just makes good sense. If there is any dangerous micro-organisms in there, they will be toast. And, the moisture will be removed from the dirt, making it easier to manage.
I have used a cookie sheet - with a tin foil base (to appease the other half), and it works like a charm. Remember, you are going to need a relatively small amount and its just not that big of a deal.
OP you may want to discuss this with the woman of the house before you go forward with this idea. Otherwise you may find yourself in trouble when she finds out. And believe me she WILL find out.
Another thing is if the dirt is from your yard there could be tetanus bacteria in it. Tetanus is from animal *** and lives in the ground. It is more common on farms and rural areas. You cannot get tetnau from a rusty nail unless an animal crapped on it, it was stuck in the ground and exposed to the bacteria first. Tetnau can occur from animal *** in cities nad towns as well. Mainly those with dogs and outdoor cats.
If you do decide to "cook" the dirt, an oven is more sure than a microwave. For example, if you were to microwave dry sand it would probably not heat up at all. Microwaves generally need water or a conductor to heat; its generally the water in foods that heats. On the other hand, conductive metals in your dirt can cause effects ranging from nothing at all up to causing a fire or destroying the microwave.
While germs probably have some moisture in them and so can be cooked, I'm not sure about viruses.
In any event, heating the soil to 350 degrees F in an oven will pretty much kill plant seeds, molds, fungi, germs, bugs, etc.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....