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Laying track, how often to solder

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Posted by dante on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:47 PM

Before you spend considerable time and effort feeding every rail or nearly every one, consider your particular layout and construction materials and methods. Remember that except for locations that will be inaccessible, you can always add feeders if over time the layout develops a need for more. It's easy to drill a small hole next to a rail, drop a feeder and attach it to the bus and rail. You can also solder joiners later if they prove to loosen or otherwise lose electrical conductivity (or add jumpers between rail ends). Basically, I installed feeders to sections of track without power because of rail gaps at frogs of certain power-routing turnouts. Probably the longest total run of track without a feeder is about 12'.

I use Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 flex and turnouts. I also use their track joiners which are a much tighter fit than the typical Atlas joiners. I treated each end of rail with No-Ox before joining. Another factor-as noted above-is the layout environment. Is it subject to signifcant swings in temperature and humidity? Although my layout room has a controlled environment, I painted all the wood benchwork, the plywood and Homasote sheets that comprise the bench top (all sides and edges) and the Homabed roadbed to minimize moisture absorption.

The layout voltage is uniform throughout. I cannot claim 20 years' successful experience, but the layout is fully operational for over 41 months without a power problem. Admittedly, the track is not yet ballasted or painted. So far so good; I shall see how it performs over a longer time. However, as I said before, I can always add feeders and/or solder joiners. 

Dante

 

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Posted by HObbyguy on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 5:37 PM

Here's a very recent story on this topic.

It was very rainy and humid here in Georgia through October and into November this year.  My layout is in the basement which is on the house central AC system, but it wasn't warm enough for AC most of the time.  The humidity in the main house gradually built up to well over 70%, probably even higher in the basement.  I laid new track during this time- a long straight run (10' plus) with a new viaduct bridge in the middle.  This was on benchwork that was completed almost two years ago so the wood is well seasoned.

I finally broke down and bought a dehumidifier with a built-in pump for the basement and got the humidity down below 50%, and then the weather finally cleared out so we are finally back to normal here humidity-wise.

When I tried to reinstall the viaduct this past weekend (I had it out a few weeks while working on terrain and landscaping) there was no way it would go back in.  The rails had to be trimmed at least 1/16" or so to get it to fit.  Don't know if the change in humidity caused it but I can't think of anything else.  It makes me think that leaving some expansion gaps on unsoldered connections is indeed a good idea on long runs.

Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger...  doing it my way.  Now working on phase 3.      - Walt

For photos and more:  http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/

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Posted by Medina1128 on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 5:58 AM

There seem to be a lot of comments made about not soldering every joint to allow for rail expansion/contraction. From what I've learned from other posts, it's not actually the rail that expands/contracts, it's the wood used to make benchwork. This is especially true in layout locations where the temperature and humidity vary. Some of the cures include painting the benchwork to seal the wood. 

My layout is in my basement, which stays cool in the summer and warm in the winter. This is due to the fact that our basement has ductwork in it. This keeps the environment fairly stable. 

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Posted by jecorbett on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:08 AM

HObbyguy

A related question- what is the thinking regarding isolating power districts?  My layout is now growing and I am debating whether it is worth creating seperate districts or not. 

 

In my case it was forced upon me. With DCC, even locos which aren't moving are drawing a small amount of power. It reached a point where the power draw exceeded the capacity of my booster (5 amps if I remember right). I had to seperate my layout into two power districts so that a a good number of them will be in seperate districts. I also added an on/off switch to the round house so that it won't be drawing power except when I am moving a loco in or out of it. Until my roster exceeded the capacity of my booster, my layout operated just fine with just one district.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:07 AM

"weather" / environment was the major cause I experienced some rather severe expansion/contraction in track.  My environment was a garage which experienced extreme temperature variations - well below freezing in the winter with accompanying dry air and well above 90 degree's in the summer along with extremely humid air.  I laid most of the track in the summer and soldered it, and in the winter it had pulled apart and many of the solder joints broke.  I don't think I'd want to build a layout in that kind of place again without some major environmental controls (insulation, heating in winter and cooling in summer along with a dehumidifier).

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, November 13, 2015 10:53 AM

weather you need to allow for expantion and contraction depends on your layout materials. On Unitrack, this may be an issue, never experimented on them.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 13, 2015 10:26 AM

carl425

 

 
HObbyguy
A related question- what is the thinking regarding isolating power districts?

 

Assuming your layout isn't so large that it requires multiple boosters, this choice is based on how much track you want to inspect to find the cause when you have a short.  I'm building a multi level layout.  The levels are all isolated and each is fed by a PSX circuit breaker.  The reverse loops at each end are fed with PSX-AR's.

 

I agree with Carl on this.  If you decide to create separate power districts, each power district should be protected by its own circuit breaker, and the booster will protect the overall layout.  I like separate power districts, and I have 5 of them on my layout.  There are two big advantages to circuit breaker protected power districts.  

One, if a short occurs anywhere on the layout, only that particular power district is affected so that the other power districts remain operative.  No loss of power, no loss of sound, no loss of lighting.

Two, it is a lot easier to find and resolve the short.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by carl425 on Friday, November 13, 2015 9:53 AM

HObbyguy
A related question- what is the thinking regarding isolating power districts?

Assuming your layout isn't so large that it requires multiple boosters, this choice is based on how much track you want to inspect to find the cause when you have a short.  I'm building a multi level layout.  The levels are all isolated and each is fed by a PSX circuit breaker.  The reverse loops at each end are fed with PSX-AR's.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by HObbyguy on Friday, November 13, 2015 8:43 AM

A related question- what is the thinking regarding isolating power districts?  My layout is now growing and I am debating whether it is worth creating seperate districts or not.  Before DCC it was necessary in order to run more than one train but what is the reasoning behind this now?  Adding a bunch of unnecessary insulated joiners or gaps doesn't make sense to me since they can be troublesome.

FWIW I've been soldering all connections on curves, but not on turnouts or bridge approaches, and I also leave some unsoldered joiners on straight runs.  No problems so far.

Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger...  doing it my way.  Now working on phase 3.      - Walt

For photos and more:  http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/

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Posted by selector on Friday, November 13, 2015 12:25 AM

For bullet-proof joints in hidden places, or for places a pain to reach, try champhering, or beveling, the inside flange faces and the top bearing face of the rail heads where they meet, both heads.  See the diagramme below:

These angled surfaces will act as guides, not rough obstructive edges, as wheels move across the gap between them.

Also, consider soldering the feeders only to the soldered joiners.  I solder every second joiner, thus joining solidly two lengths of flex track.  As I do that, I solder a a flattened 22 gauge bared copper solid strand feeder wire jammed into the joiner inside the web of the rail.  Schematically, you can have positively fed tracks totalling six feet with just one pair of feeders inserted into a pair of soldered joiners.  At the far ends of each of these 'monolithic' segments are pairs of unsoldered joiners that will allow expansion and contraction seasonally.

It looks like this, with the "o" representing open or sliding joiners and an "x" intending a soldered joint with a feeder embedded.

=======o========x=========o=========x========

If you know how to solder a joint, you have an effective and efficient building process ensuring electrically functional track.  If your solders are iffy, then it doesn't matter if you solder feeders to every single length of flex...you'll still have problems here and there, especially if there are unsoldered joiners on either end.

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Posted by bing&kathy on Thursday, November 12, 2015 11:47 PM

   As I start laying track I intend to have soldered joints in hard to reach places, tunnels etc. Every section in such locations fed. No soldering of switches. One end of rail joiners soldered allowing for expansion. At thesepoints feeder wire will jump from one rail the the next as in prototype track. Feed wires will be determined as I go but no more than six foot (or so) between feeds.

   Does this reflect a good practice or any other ideas are welcome.

God's Best & Happy Rails to You!

Bing  (RIPRR The Route of the Buzzards)

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Posted by kasskaboose on Friday, November 6, 2015 7:16 AM

Besides DC/DCC you also have to consider how much time you want to devote for soldering.  I solder all of the curved ME code 83 track to avoid derailments.  Running feeder wires every 8-10 feet is suitable should you solder track.  Straight sections don't really need soldering.

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Posted by Jouard1 on Thursday, November 5, 2015 3:16 PM
You said add hims. I know you meant something else...I soldered all
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, November 5, 2015 12:48 PM

LIONS solder every rail joiner, but then him has lots of other gaps to provide expansion.

If track must be moved / removed, cut the rail joiner with a motor tool and then use the solder iron to remove the peices from the rail.

A DC layout such as mine is not so fussy about having so many feeders as a DCC layout would require. LION connects the left rail to a hard ground, The right rail gets is power from the supply, +12v dc = forward movement, -12v dc = reverse movement. LION has no reverse posibilites on layout of him, following train is only 180 seconds behind its leader.

LION introduces power between the stations. Tracks and stations are gapped to control the movement of the trains. Him not run trains. LPPs  in the motorman's compartment control the trains according to the signals and automation equipment. LION gets to run the entire railroad from the TOWER. Is tower operator, not motorman. Running Broadway Local is just as boring in North Dakota as it is in New York.

USE BUS WIRES not terminal blocks for your feeders, you ain't made of money, ewe know.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by fieryturbo on Thursday, November 5, 2015 11:20 AM

Not necessarily related to OP's post, but I'm running DCC, and I'll be laying down all my track soon. Can I just drill holes in the layout and run feeder wires from every piece of track, then run them to terminal blocks? It seems like a lot less of a pain than to solder joiners.

 

If I have to sit at my work desk for an hour to attach solder to track where I'm sitting comfortably, that's way better than trying to solder joiners on a layout that's already in place.

Julian

Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:17 AM

I install unsoldered power feeding joiners about every 12 feet, and solder the sections in between. I never end up with exactly three foot lengths by the time I install turnouts.   I apply power feeders to all three legs of turnouts. 

- Douglas

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:15 AM

Since I have dealt with the effects of expansion and contraction, I only solder a few joints on curves to prevent kinking, which I have noticed even on very experienced modelers layouts btw.

A good compromise to soldering every joint and risk expansion/contraction issues - solder a feeder to every rail joiner at the bottom and you have power to all joints.  If power doesn't get through at one of them to a rail, it should feed from the other side - rails can float in the joiners to expand and contract as much as needed and you should have good power through out that way.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by carl425 on Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:47 AM

gopherbroke
Why is it important to make sure the sliding rails are all on the same side?

The sliding rail goes on the inside of the curve.  If you have curves in both directions, then they won't all be on the same side.

You put them on the inside of the curve so that the flexing causes the unconnected ties to come together rather than spreading apart.  This matches prototype practice where they have a standard for maximum tie spacing.  It is acceptable to have the ties closer together than the maximum, but it is not acceptable to have them farther apart than maximum.

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Posted by Jouard1 on Thursday, November 5, 2015 6:50 AM

I'm new here in need of help.  im  my first HO RAILROAD IN MY GARAGE 6' x 12'.  I unfortunately did solder all Kato track pieces except 10 turnouts and most yard track.  After reading posts, I realize I needed to allow for expansion.  Suggestions please, thank you in advance

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, February 2, 2011 2:37 PM

I didn't worry about on which side the sliding rail was located.  You can trim off the excess if you wish, or simply thread the extra rail into the ties of the next section.  It's good practice to stagger the joints so those in both rails don't occur at exactly the same spot, but it makes little difference whether they're offset by an inch or by a foot.

 

Wayne

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Posted by gopherbroke on Wednesday, February 2, 2011 12:28 PM

Why is it important to make sure the sliding rails are all on the same side? I have connected my track and pinned it down to ensure that all my connections are good and I was going to start gluing my track down to the cork roadbed this weekend, and now saw your post on the sliding rails, so not too late for met to correct.

Very helpful feedback.

Thank you.

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Posted by desertdog on Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:46 PM

Every expansion problem I have ever seen (i.e. kinking track) had to do with layout construction materials, not the rail itself.   Use plywood or pink foam and you will have no problems, regardless of whether the layout is in a cold attic, or a hot desert garage like mine.  I solder the joiners between every section of rail, including turnouts.  I connect feeders to every section, as well, including the stock rails of turnouts.  There are no dead sections or power losses.  

If you are still worried about expansion and contraction (which you need not be), the insulation gaps on your turnouts will more than compensate for the minute changes in rail caused by temperature.  

 

John Timm

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Posted by Timboy on Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:08 PM

I let my loci do the talking.  If it - and I mean mean the most cantankerous one that is mechanically sound - runs nicely around, then mission accomplished.  If not, then I do a drop-down where it slows down.  Some areas get a drop-down every section; some not so much.  Some guys use a meter and a "standard" loco.  I've never been able to get a steady reading with a meter and I figure that my RR is only as good as it's worst-running loco, which is why I do it the more pragmatic way.  Either way, the object is a consistent speed.  What better way to get it than through observation?  Oh, and sometimes it's not voltage.  Sometimes it's trackage.

Regards,

Timboy 

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Posted by Hamltnblue on Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:25 PM

That's a decent sized layout.  I would start by running a pair of 12 gauge wires for the buss.  All track feeders will connect to it.  Then solder feeder wires onto the underside or outside rails. The feeders can be around 22 gauge.  From there the feeders get connected to the buss wires.  If the layout is already built I'd add them over time, starting with the farthest end and breaking sections in half until all is covered.  Optimum is a feeder for each flex section. Some say 6 feet.  If using snap track try not to have more than 1 set of joiners between feeders. Over time they will slowly break down and give you random trouble.

 

Springfield PA

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Posted by woodman on Tuesday, February 1, 2011 8:26 PM

My layout is 13' X 15', in a sort of a donut shape, with a bridge opening to gain access to the center. It is not against the wall at any point, due to needing access to waterpipes, elect, etc. Just envision a free standing rectangle with the center being open.

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Posted by Hamltnblue on Tuesday, February 1, 2011 3:12 PM

Woodman, how large a layout do you have?  Also don't forget to run buss wire if longer than 4x8.

Springfield PA

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Posted by TerryJ on Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:27 AM

I solder every joint and have feeders about every 6 feet or so. Haven't had any expansion/contraction issues yet, but that can occur.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, January 31, 2011 9:48 PM

woodman
I am getting ready to lay my track, HO code 100, Atlas. Do I solder each and every joint and how often do I attach feeder wires to the track. Do I do this for every section or every 2-3 or more sections.

  When you say section, does that mean you are using sectional track (9" pieces) or do you mean 3 foot long flex track "sections". 

I never solder sectional track, and I only solder flex track on a curve.  I also make certain the two rails of a piece of flex track do not end up directly across from each other on a curve (as train modeler above).  That is I stagger the rail ends on the inside and outside rails.  That helps prevent kinks.

One feeder per six feet of track should be plenty.  That is if you put power to every other set of rail joiners it works out pretty good (as Selector above).  That way the greatest distance a train loco can be from a power supply is 3 feet.

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Posted by Hamltnblue on Monday, January 31, 2011 3:22 PM

I solder feeders on each section and leave gaps between some of the rails after having a section buckle a few years back.  At a minimum I would avoid soldering turnouts which allows you to salvage them if you rebuild or make changes.

Springfield PA

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