Does anyone know where I could find a sharper version of this?
Thanks,
mj
mjmueller ....One thing I really hope someone can explain, is what hidden staging is for? mj
....One thing I really hope someone can explain, is what hidden staging is for?
The name "staging" kind of gives it away. It comes from the theater, where actors and props not in immediate use are kept off-stage hidden in the wings or backstage (staged). When they end their presence on the stage, they go out of sight in the wings, waiting to reappear when their presence is due again.
Simply put, trains are "staged" out of primary sight in the same way when not being featured on the main stage. Staging allows many more trains to be seen and displayed in a given amount of time than could be possibly made up and broken up in a yard (assuming you had an interest in doing so). Hiding staging helps the visual illusion at the price of all the things that can and do go wrong with hidden and/or less accessible trackage.
Those that are into more extensive operations use staging to represent parts of their railroad system that are not visibly modeled. In other words, town B is visibly modeled. A train going from A through B to C comes from staging (representing A), stops at B in sight, and goes to staging (representing C).
hope this helps
Fred W
hi mjm,
i think something like the original BN or my HO adaption can be done in your space.
But before going to the drawing-board some questions have to be answered.
1) must the lift out be in the middle?
2)Will the side facing the open space be the place for staging or holding tracks?
3)what do you think about a short piece of single track? (keeps the operators awake.)
4)do you want both mainline tracks to be free from yard switching and spurs, so 2 trains can doing their laps all the time?
5)we need standards. At least #7 switches(atlas, code 55), #10 in case of crossovers, a min radius of 16.5" and a trainlength of 4 feet?
6)how many operators do you envision? Three? You'll have to allow ample man-space as well.
In general i envisioned mainline trains setting out and picking up blocks of cars in the yard. These cars are built into a wayfreight; servicing the various spurs along the line. This will take time, so holding one of your freights in staging will give you that time-frame.
7)what do you think about the operational vision above?
8)is it wise to build only a part first to gain experience?
Paul
Wow, ok, you give me many things to think about. I really like where we are getting now.
1) Lift out bridge must be somewhere on the left side where the open space it, I don't mind where it goes.
2) I don't know where the best place is for staging or holding tracks.
3) I guess I don't understand about the short piece of single track?
4) I want both mainline tracks running through switching. I saw this at the Milwaukee Train fest & really liked it. Kind of like Global III in Rochell.
5) Yes #7 & #10 will be main switches.
6) 2 operators at most.
7) I don't know about the vision yet, I am still trying to learn
8) I will be building all together. I thought it & talked it over with a friend and I don't want to have to add a lot later.
Thanks again & I hope to keep working with you.
its just a starter.............
ad 2) study my plan, if the operators are in the central pit, the holding / staging tracks are out of view. Though from the open side these tracks can be maintained easily, or in case of a derailment reached rather well. If these tracks are placed between a scenic divider and a back wall....they are out view and out of reach.
ad3)in both the original BN and in my adaption the mainline is single track over the bridge; of course a double tracked bridge is possible. This short section of single track add some drama to your layout, operators can't dream away.
ad4) i do not understand what you mean, i am afraid you like to see your mainline also used for yard-switching. This might look good on an exhibition layout, where hardly any switching is done. On real railroads and on model railroads even more, yard switching should be separated from the mainline. It is blocking through traffic. Looking good is not enough for a working (model)railroad.
ad7) i couldn't be more specific.................mainline trains setting out and picking up blocks of cars; a switcher making up the wayfreight (the local servicing the industries) and a local wayfreight running to the branch and back (a turn). This is not necessary....... you could assume the local is made up some- where else, in a yard not modelled (the local is made up or fiddled in staging), so building and switching a yard is just an option.
ad8)might be the wrong decision.........especially on a rather big layout......... finishing part for part is not a bad alternative, my thoughts your decision.
paul
Paulus,
Thanks for the reply again. I will mock up some ideas and drawings today on Atlas software. I will also try to get some pics of some things we were talking about.
the first plan is simple; servicing the local industries or warehouses by a wayfreight can take more then an hour. Holding mainline traffic in the mean time is needed. Those trains are supposed to be beyond the layout; in staging (or holding).
General outlines of a possibility, the hard work has still to be done, filling in the details.
Having an idea how you intend to run your trains is needed. One operator running fast through trains, having the single track section over the bridge as a bottle neck, while an other engineer is running the wayfreight servicing industries and ware houses.
could your layout be build a foot (or 6 inches) wider, using a small part of the open space at the right?
MJ:
One of the problems with the BN plan you posted is the lack of a good location for a drop in section to enter the layout. There is either a lot of scenery or staging/yard tracks all around the layout. It looks like its strictly a duck-under plan.
Notice in Paul's plan how he made a drop-in section where there is only one track and not much planned scenery. You'll want to have a simple section of benchwork, track, and scenery where you make your removable section, if you use one.
- Douglas
What do you think about the start of the layout below. It's very similar to the BN layout, with some major changes, like the double track going all around. I still have yet to put the river & bridges and industry in.
Here is a quick update of the layout. I have decided to stay close to the BN Layout with a few twists. I will have a tunnel in the top right & a little different water. Let me know what you think so far.
Mmm - should work for your preferences.
But those aisles inside the layout look pretty narrow. Maybe do the cutout in the leftmost part on the inside of the table instead of the outside,so you can make your aisles inside the layout a little wider?
Stein
Thats a really good thought, I will see what I can do.
hi,
the design was meant for shows, trains ran on auto pilot; hardly any switching was done. The moment you start switching your spurs you're into trouble, no additional runarounds, nasty switchbacks..........all mainline traffic has to be stopped. The double ended yard is not suitable for classification without fooling the main.
http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html (Bisguier-yarddesign)
This is were holding tracks are useful.... beside having the advantage not seeing the very same trains doing their laps all the time.
http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/Staging.html
IMAO you should think hard about adding staging and changing the design of your yard. I do not know which switches you intend to use, the angles seem pretty steep to me.
What do you think about this change? I put the liftout on the outside to make more room for the isle's.
you should listen better to some people on here.
1) your aisles are way to narrow...........;they should be 30" not 18"; could be cured hopefully.
2)the switches on the right side of your visible staging yard are not appropriate.
3) to many spurs are hard to reach, by nasty switchbacks only; beside being to short.
4)you do not understand how and why crossovers were used on the original design; eastbounds can enter the yard easily, for a westbound its almost impossible, unless the eastbound is parked in the yard first. Switching the yard is impossible, unless all traffic on the outer oval is stopped.
5) leave the squares visible please, its way more easy to check on issues then.
6)you do not seem to worry about how you could operate or run your trains, what is worse...........
you refuse to talk about it.. You copied a lot of the plan, but omitted some very important parts.
7)you could flip your plan, the blob on the wider side of your space.
IMAO you're on the wrong track, but only if you are willing to talk about how you could run your trains, i can help you.