Attached please find the layout outline. I have an area of 10X10, but with 12' on the far wall. I have N Scale. Please show me your possibilities. Thank you.
How can we show you all possibilities you may have in the given space without knowing what you want?
A 10 by 10 ft. room offers a lot of possibilities in N scale, from a small shelf-type layout along the wall to a more complex, peninsula type multi-deck layout.
There are a few questions you need to answer for yourself, which will help you to find "your" track plan:
Take a look at this page by Byron Henderson, which will guide you through your decision making process (Thanks Byron)
Well, there will be a lift out bridge by the bottom left of the layout. The wall is on the top, right and bottom of drawing. I am doing 2, or 3 mainlines I think. 2 at least. I am debating on mountains out west, or maybe praire du chien in some parts.....I'm still debating. I also might do a multi-level with Helix.
Thanks
mjmueller Attached please find the layout outline. I have an area of 10X10, but with 12' on the far wall. I have N Scale. Please show me your possibilities.
Attached please find the layout outline. I have an area of 10X10, but with 12' on the far wall. I have N Scale. Please show me your possibilities.
I would say I'm pretty good at all. I have all the tools (Shopsmith :), and talent. I build many things. See, the real problem is I already have a layout benchwork and some track laid in my garage right now. The garage is 13X17. I would have to rip up all that and bring down to the basement. The only draw back to the garage is, I do not have it heated & in Wisconsin it's pretty bad with weather changes. Also, the room has a slope on the ceiling about 4' up from the sides, so I cannot build the layout at the height I really want to. In the basement, I can build high & have the temp. controlled. So, I have all the means to do a very nice layout, and I have a friend who works for Walthers & does all the scenery there.
My self, I would stick with the garage. In my case, the kitchen was on the other side of the wall so there was a gas line. I had a wall mounted gas heater installed in the garage. I all so have a window A/C unit. I am warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
One thing that comes in handy is a track program. I use the Atlas RTS 8.0 and it is a free down load from the Atlas site. While it is a pain to learn, and it is not the end all (other words it will let you plan mistakes like S Curves) for building a layout. The advantage is you can draw your room, and post layout ideas here at the site. Here is a sample of what I am playing with. Each square is 1 foot.
Atlas all so has RTS 10.0 and I have down loaded it, but have not used it yet.
I am far from being a master of the RTS program, but if you go that root I will help as much as I can.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Well, I had a great plan for the garage and it was pretty far, but I just got done with a lot of demo. I have decided to go with the basement, that is why I started the thread. I am looking for good Ideas for the above post. Thank.
mj
What you wish to model is going to determine what your trackage looks like.
The mountains? The rural towns? The suburbs? The city? The waterfront pier?
Then you have choice of the type of train you'll run: Freight (raw and/or finished goods), passenger, excursion, historic?
For example a logging train in the mountains will have lots of twisty tight curves and lots of trees. A rural or suburban town passenger train however will have broad sweeping curves to support the long passenger cars.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
MJ, what did think about trying the Atlas Program? Details would help on room layout (I will reread your original post) and what are you looking for?
Are you looking for?
1 Rail Fanning (just running the trains and watching)?
2 Switching?
3 Point to point?
4 Sizes turns you need?
I am HO, so to me I need 22 or larger. To me 18 inch is tight, while 32 inch is medium large. Give me a idea on turns sizes and what you are hopping to do.
Ken
I really want to build this layout at 58" or somewhere around there. What would you guys recommend? I want the new height standard. Also, attached you will find a little update to the idea of the layout. I would not say this is final at all, I would still like your thoughts. I really want this to be a fall scene, so maybe the mountains are out of the question. I want to have 2 to 3 mainlines with a staging area in the middle. I might go multi-level with the helix, but this might not be the right thing to do.
mjmueller I really want to build this layout at 58" or somewhere around there. What would you guys recommend? I want the new height standard....I really want this to be a fall scene, so maybe the mountains are out of the question....I might go multi-level with the helix, but this might not be the right thing to do.
I really want to build this layout at 58" or somewhere around there. What would you guys recommend? I want the new height standard....I really want this to be a fall scene, so maybe the mountains are out of the question....I might go multi-level with the helix, but this might not be the right thing to do.
Layout height is a perennial topic in these forums. Some like it high, some like it low, and some like it just right (for them). There are two ways to resolve the problem:
1) mock up adjustable shelves with track and trains on them at different heights until you establish what height you prefer.
2) Build the layout higher than you think you want, and cut off an inch of the legs at a time until you are happy.
What is interesting is the inherent contradictions in your wants:
Looks to me like you are not sure of what you want, and are throwing out ideas for our approval. Our approval of your ideas hardly matters to your enjoyment of your layout. There's nothing wrong with a generic layout if you are unsure of what your real desires are. The downside is a higher likelihood of rework and rebuilding than if your layout had a focus in advance. OTOH, there are plenty of examples of focused layouts whose owners changed their minds about focus at a later date. And the rework/rebuild still happens to most of us.
The less sure I am of what I really want, the more likely I am to start off on a smaller scale until I gain the experience to better know what I want. Applies to model railroading as well as other aspects of life.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I understand and agree with all your comments, what I'm really looking for are some layout ideas (track wise) for the area I have. I only added the extra information because people kept commenting on the region and what now. I have some specific Idea's but am reluctant to post them.
I would really just like some general ideas.
One of the major issues you will face will be designing a layout or track plan. The first thing to do is define the space that you have. How much of the room can you use? Do you need to have a workbench in the same room? You will get more running track if your layout is along the walls with a peninsula or two sticking out toward the center. The longest that you can reach things is about 24 inches. Thus quite a few folks make their benchwork 24 inches wide. The peninsulas can be wider because you will have access from both sides and the end.What I do for layout design (have done so far) is define my area and benchwork first. Next I decide on a theme. (Mainline running, with a branch line(?) or other special interests.) Then I put in a mainline. I am fond of twice around the room types divided by scenery and grades. Since I have gotten into operations, I also have a staging area of some sort, whether it is a lay-over for entire trains, or a yard that simulates an interchange yard. One track in staging is a through track for continuous running. If I put cars on it, the layout becomes point to point for operations.Next I try and determine how many small towns I can have, and possibility one city with a yard and loco facilities, without them crowding one another. Usually small yards and facilities unless I have the room for larger ones. I will try to fit in a way-side industry or two just for variation as long as it won't crowd things.Then I go looking at plans for modular railroads. I look for ones that would make good towns or cities because their track plans are usually fairly compact, and most of the way they will be switched is already determined with a good track plan themselves.Because I freelance, I don't worry about town and city names etc., but if you want to model a specific prototype, you can name the towns as the railroad you are modeling would, and build or plan you scenery to suite the area you want to model. Also, some of the industries that may be recognizable in a town you choose to name from a real one may have to be built or otherwise implied to achieve the "feeling" of the real town.When building starts, I try and get all of the benchwork built first. Then plan where the towns will go and install the mainline to get some trains running. Then I work on one of the yards so I can store stuff when not running. Then I plug along on the other track work and scenery design and continue from there.You can think about and play with a bench / layout design while you are getting the room ready. As was said before; "That means lighting and backdrop installation but also can include things like drop ceiling, carpeting, etc. Things that make for a pleasing environment. That will be more important to some than others and only you can decide that. All these things are much easier to do before you start building the layout."
If you want to start building right away, build a switching module that can become a town on part of your layout. Something about 2 X 6 or so. At least this way you will be doing something while you are preparing your room.
My layout uses four lift bridges and I have a short write up on them. Go to my web page (Link at the bottom in my signature) and the look for a link on the web page to 'Lift Bridges'.
Hope this helps.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
If you look above I do have the workbench and layout dimentions. I made the sides 24"
mjmueller I understand and agree with all your comments, what I'm really looking for are some layout ideas (track wise) for the area I have. I only added the extra information because people kept commenting on the region and what now. I have some specific Idea's but am reluctant to post them. I would really just like some general ideas.
What do you mean by "general ideas" ?
Here is a general idea: model an Chicago passenger terminal in 1942.
Here is another general idea: model a logging railroad in New Hampshire in 1910.
Here is a third general idea: model a shortline serving an industrial park near Seattle in 2010.
Track configuration for an urban passenger terminal, a logging railroad or a modern industrial park are very different.
Track configurations for a layout where you want to model one local freight train a day, taking all day to move at 10 mph down a sleepy branch line with a handful of cars for various industries along the the line is very different from track configurations which will allow you to model a short stretch of the North-East corridor, with 15 different trains passing through in front of your viewing position in the space of 45 minutes.
Form follows function. If you have no clue about how you want to run your trains, it is hard to say much intelligent about what track plans are possible in N scale in a space 10 x 10 feet.
Also - other people have tried the "I don't want to tell them my ideas - I want a big menu to pick from" trick before. It does not work all that well - they do not get a big pile of track plans to pick and choose from.
For some odd reason, it seems like a lot of people do not want to waste a couple of hours (or more) of their time on making a random track plan that has no chance whatsoever of flying, since it does not fit the picture you have inside your head.
I would, with all due respect, suggest that you quit fooling around, and just tell us what you are looking for. Then maybe someone can make suggestions that would actually help you.
Smile, Stein
Ok, didn't know it was that serious. I guess I will come up with idea's on my own. Thanks for all the help.
I do understand, and it sounds like i have some more thinking to do. I will update when I figure it out.
mjmueller Ok, didn't know it was that serious. I guess I will come up with idea's on my own. Thanks for all the help. mj
It IS serious. You can't just throw a space and a few ideas at the wall and see what sticks. Or in this case, you can't just throw out a dimesional space and a few iffy ideas and see what others come up without spelling out in detail what you want and are looking for.
You need to give us your list of "givens and druthers". You really only gave one given {your space allotment, and the lift-out bridge requirements. You gave a few sketchy druthers {I want it to be possibly this height with three possible levels} and maybe 2 or maybe 3 mainlines.
-You need to define your railroad. What year, What time of year, What railroad {or freelanced}, what industry you want, what country side and terrain you want.
-you need to define your trackage and layout desires...do you want a yard? What kind of yard spur or ladder? do you want a lot of switching? No switching? do you want you want a lot of country mainlines through hill and dale?DO you want a city flat scape? Do you want passenger stations or freight stations? Both? Do you want your mainlines all parallel? Do you want separtate mainlines? DO you want continous running capabilities?Or Do you want point-to point? do you want over/under trackage? do you want passing sidings? do you want an engine servicing facitlity? is it for steam or diesel or both? Do you want flat prairie or mountainous? Riverside/seaside offloading dock? do you want your levels connected by helix or separate operations? How much space can you devote to the helix? {tight curves and height add to the stress on locos pulling trains up it}? WHat kind of track are you gonna use? what size and brand of switches are you going to use? How is it powered? DC or DCC? What are you minimum and maximum curve radii? Do you want all flex track or sectional? Do you want tunnels?
So many questions need to be answered before someone can work up a track plan for you!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
I will draw up a plan and show you later.
This was the old layout I am tearing down right now. I was modeling the Mississippi River on this last layout. I love the idea, but don't think it will work for my new one.
Could I get some information on Coal trains that run through autumn colored mountains.
Here is a quick mock up of some Idea's.
mjmueller Could I get some information on Coal trains that run through autumn colored mountains. Thanks mj
Get this book from Kalmbach: http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12453.html
The Modelers Guide to Coal Railroading. It is very good. You can set the scenery to whichever season that you want.
mjmueller Here is a quick mock up of some Idea's. mj
Mmmm - okay, you seem to prefer running to switching, and want to be able to run several trains at the same time.
Reach will be fairly bad at the base of the peninsula, as you have drawn it now.
If you want a peninsula coming down from the top wall, to increase run length, you might want to consider doing a narrow neck, and maybe a view block down the center of the peninsula.
Doesn't have to be as long a peninsula as in the quick sketch below - that gives long and narrow aisles. But think long and narrow if you want a long run.
You still have not written much to explain how you want to run your layout.
One person running trains? Or do you need room for 5-6 operators? Do you need room to take 15 relatives into the pit to show off your layout?
What's the purpose of your yard - is is just a place to store trains until they are supposed to run (i.e. open staging), or will you have someone in the yard using an engine to gather cars into trains bound for different destinations?
The yard you are sketching is double ended and pyramid shaped. Which means that the tracks are all different lengths. If you want the yard to be storage for trains which will run later, it is possible that a different type of yard will be better.
In general - the more you can tell us about how you want to run your layout - number of operators, numbers of trains, desired train lengths (types and numbers of cars), whether you want to just simulate trains running through the landscape, or blocks of cars being coming in from various places, being sorted into blocks for different trains and routed towards different destinations or you want to simulate trains picking up loaded coal cars from mines and leaving empties or whatever - the more you tell us about your vision, the more targeted advice can get.
Ok, great, thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it. Below you will find my (Vision).
Mmm - when you describe your vision for your layout, you are telling me what it should look like - you want detailed trees in autumn colors, you want a bridge, you want a swamp, you want hills with rock outcroppings.
Your description of how your trains should run is limited to : "functional yard, some switching".
How about concentrating on how you want to run trains on your layout? That determines the track plan to a far larger degree than what trees you want for your scenery.
How many trains moving at a time? How long trains? How many during a session?
Do you want your trains to loop on autopilot and just sit back and watch them run? Or do you want to be the engineer of one train, walking along with it as it moves down the line?
You want a "functional" yard. Functional in what way?
Will it a yard that will hold whole trains about to run (i.e. visible staging)?
Is it a yard which will sort (classify cars) into blocks bound for different destinations? Will your layout actually have multiple destinations - ie have tracks that go off into hidden staging in different directions?
Is the yard an industry yard, where a block of cars is dropped off by a passing train, to later be handled by a local switcher or plant switcher?
Try to describe how you envision running your trains. What do you want to be able to do with your trains?
Smile,Stein
steinjr Mmm - when you describe your vision for your layout, you are telling me what it should look like - you want detailed trees in autumn colors, you want a bridge, you want a swamp, you want hills with rock outcroppings. Your description of how your trains should run is limited to : "functional yard, some switching". How about concentrating on how you want to run trains on your layout? That determines the track plan to a far larger degree than what trees you want for your scenery. How many trains moving at a time? How long trains? How many during a session? Do you want your trains to loop on autopilot and just sit back and watch them run? Or do you want to be the engineer of one train, walking along with it as it moves down the line? You want a "functional" yard. Functional in what way? Will it a yard that will hold whole trains about to run (i.e. visible staging)? Is it a yard which will sort (classify cars) into blocks bound for different destinations? Will your layout actually have multiple destinations - ie have tracks that go off into hidden staging in different directions? Is the yard an industry yard, where a block of cars is dropped off by a passing train, to later be handled by a local switcher or plant switcher? Try to describe how you envision running your trains. What do you want to be able to do with your trains? Smile,Stein
+1
Maybe an example will help. Here's a diagram of my layout, and description of what's gonna be happening in a given "operating session":
This is designed with one maaaaaaybe two operators in mind. to make things easy, we'll call things the south leg, west leg, and north leg.
The layout is a protolanced branchline of the Pennsylvania Railroad in late spring/early summer (May/June/July) of 1941.
Operations will consist of:
Hope this helps get you thinking "on the right track"
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
mjmueller This was the old layout I am tearing down right now. I was modeling the Mississippi River on this last layout. I love the idea, but don't think it will work for my new one.
It looks to me like the desire is just rolling trains.
hi,
is it possible i have seen this plan before?
i read trough the druthers, but can't match it with the design. It would need 2 staging yards, one at the top and one at the bottom, both with 4 tracks or more. If it would be wise to use so much space for staging is a different question. Designing a model-railroad is about being honest to your self. When you are talking about a freight train coming in to change engines and going further down the line later, you need a lot of length. Your freight has to be parked on line some where (staging)............ goes down the line ,into your yard, after changing engines its supposed to roll on before ending its run in staging again.
The only thing I see is a very short and small yard; dreaming is nice....but does not build a great model-railroad. The space it has is limiting the kind of railroading; IMAO a small terminal or a small switching layout is the best you can get.
This example might be called a vision, a reality check is missing. 50 years ago John Armstrong wrote Track Planning For Realistic Operation; think long and hard about the title. It was a landmark in the history of model-railroading; beside building a layout, running trains like real railroads did became the aim of many modellers. Just let them run their laps was no longer the goal.
Buying that book, just as 102 Realistic Track Plans both published by our host is worth the money. I also fancy How To Design A Small Switching Layout by Lance Mindheim, cause it gives you an idea about visions.
paul
Well, I have revised the track plan again. The reason for the huge yard, is, I like the look of it, always have, but to be honest I probably can't have that now. In the garage it was fine, because the layout was huge, but now it keeps getting smaller and smaller.