No matter what anyone thinks about getting a life, Kalmbach's policy about posting tasteless, political, religious, highly contentious, dangerous, disrespectful, personal, or criminal subjects, including imagery and videos of those, is that they shall not be posted. No matter what the OP or others think is wrong with that, he/they has/have no choice but to conform. When he opens up his own forum, he will be able to dictate what is and isn't allowed. If he chooses to allow everything on principle, then in priniciple I hope he is richly rewarded.
-Crandell
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
3railguy wrote:I find it hard to believe anyone would get disgusted and voice their opinion on a model train car decorated with graffiti. They need to get a life!
What do you find hard to believe? That someone who has to pay for the cleanup isn't pleased with the perp? Or that someone who jumps into the forums with an IN YOUR FACE attitude and starts insulting long-time members when they call him on it doesn't inspire admiration among the adults present? I suggest that you go to my earlier post on Page 1 of this thread - and read it.
As for getting a life - I've had a long, full and interesting one. Can you say the same?
Chuck (modeling graffiti-free Central Japan in September, 1964)
marknewton wrote: allaircooled wrote: I will try to post pics of my graffitied car when I get one done so it can be bashed. I don't think people "bashed" ccrider because he posted pics of a graffitied car. It was because he presented as an utter twerp, and his modelling was very ordinary, contradicting his claim to be a well-paid professional.Cheers,Mark.
allaircooled wrote: I will try to post pics of my graffitied car when I get one done so it can be bashed.
selector wrote: Driline wrote:<quoted material not included>I can't tell if its Kalmbach thats "strict" or just you and Crandell. How are we to know?There is a surefire way to find out. Report us, just as you would report an abuse of another sort, and ask Bergie to look into it. You are sure to get a reply. None of the user-mods is above the policy. We work as closely with Bergie as we can. When we stray, he lets us know right quick. If anyone reading here feels the mods are too heavy or personal in their approach to their service, you are invited to submit a complaint via PM, email, or a report of abuse using the links provided.
Driline wrote:<quoted material not included>I can't tell if its Kalmbach thats "strict" or just you and Crandell. How are we to know?
<quoted material not included>
I can't tell if its Kalmbach thats "strict" or just you and Crandell. How are we to know?
There is a surefire way to find out. Report us, just as you would report an abuse of another sort, and ask Bergie to look into it. You are sure to get a reply. None of the user-mods is above the policy. We work as closely with Bergie as we can. When we stray, he lets us know right quick. If anyone reading here feels the mods are too heavy or personal in their approach to their service, you are invited to submit a complaint via PM, email, or a report of abuse using the links provided.
Well then. You are correct. Its not your strict heavy hand but Bergies style of forum management.
Driline wrote:You might want to try "modeltrainsweathered" forum and check them out. They are master model weather craftsman and they also model grafitti quite well. When I want to increase my modelling skills I post there.
You might want to try "modeltrainsweathered" forum and check them out. They are master model weather craftsman and they also model grafitti quite well. When I want to increase my modelling skills I post there.
doctorwayne wrote: Personally, I find that the quality of the Forum has improved since we got the Mods. There are fewer arguements and confrontational situations, and fewer people bashing someone else's efforts. It's almost as if some of us needed only to be reminded of our manners. As a result, I think that this is a much nicer place to visit and to share information.Wayne
Personally, I find that the quality of the Forum has improved since we got the Mods. There are fewer arguements and confrontational situations, and fewer people bashing someone else's efforts. It's almost as if some of us needed only to be reminded of our manners. As a result, I think that this is a much nicer place to visit and to share information.
Wayne
Mega Ditto!!
Guys -
I know that metathreads about the moderators, freedom of speech, manners, cost of living and so and so forth usually goes on far, far longer than threads about actual model railroading.
Nevertheless - I have tried to atone somewhat for my part in having the previous modelling urban thread implode by creating a new thread in the Layouts and layout building where I invite people to post about modelling urban scenes.
I have started out by posting links to a few good books on the subject and links to 10 urban railroad modelling layouts I have found inspirational, and I invite others to post their links and their thoughts on the subject in that thread.
Direct link to the new thread: http://cs.trains.com/forums/1523271/ShowPost.aspx
Sorry for the interuption - you may now continue down the usual track for round 437 of the great "my freedom of speech should not be impinged upon in any way by anyone" vs "freedom of the press belongs to those who actually go to the effort to buy and set up their own press" debate
Smile, Stein
Driline wrote: tstage wrote:As far as Kalmbach, EVERY forum has its rules and regulations. Yes, Kalmbach may be more "strict" than other forums on the Net but that's the position they have taken. They are a business and we are their guests. TomI can't tell if its Kalmbach thats "strict" or just you and Crandell. How are we to know?
tstage wrote:As far as Kalmbach, EVERY forum has its rules and regulations. Yes, Kalmbach may be more "strict" than other forums on the Net but that's the position they have taken. They are a business and we are their guests. Tom
Tom
Frank,
Here's the link to the Forum policy page. We use that as our guideline and have to abide by it just like everyone else.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Hmmmm, I posted a (roughly) on-topic reply and head off for a good night's sleep; when I come back the next day the whole thread is gone and people say it's been exploded.
I have struck again. Bwa-ha-ha.
In the case of the thread in question, if only the offending posts had been removed the entire thread would have fallen apart. You can't just cut down the trunk and leave the rest of the tree standing.
I do regret losing the city scenes that were deleted - but we all overlooked the obvious. Just because there hasn't been too much Troll activity lately doesn't mean we should forget the most obvious precaution...
Don't feed the Troll.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Rotorranch wrote:That's one thing I really don't like about this forum. Kalmbach is way too sensitive about things. If you post a link to something that may be a competitor of the big K, it gets pulled. If you post something about a competitor of one it's advertisers, it get's pulled. If you post something negative about MTH, it gets pulled.I don't think the entire thread needs to be deleted, just the offending posts. Too many threads with good info get totally removed, denying the readers of what may have been useful to them.I don't see this very much on the other model railroad forums I frequent.I wish Kalmbach would lighten up a bit. Just my Rotor
That's one thing I really don't like about this forum. Kalmbach is way too sensitive about things. If you post a link to something that may be a competitor of the big K, it gets pulled. If you post something about a competitor of one it's advertisers, it get's pulled. If you post something negative about MTH, it gets pulled.
I don't think the entire thread needs to be deleted, just the offending posts. Too many threads with good info get totally removed, denying the readers of what may have been useful to them.
I don't see this very much on the other model railroad forums I frequent.
I wish Kalmbach would lighten up a bit.
Just my
Rotor
HEAR HEAR!!!
allaircooled wrote: dehusman wrote: Sad fact is that graffitti exists. If you are modeling post 1980's and want to do it accurately you pretty much have to include it.I model the 1900-1905 era and virtually all my fulled detailed models have chalk marks all across the bottoms of the sides. Why do that? Because that was the way they looked.While I secretly wish somebody would go tag the cars and houses of all those who support graffitti as "art", I don't have a problem with it being on model cars in the appropriate era. I model trash and debris piles. Same thing.Dave H. That is what I was thinking. I am trying to model the current time. Figured graffiti is on the trains I see. Don't necessary like it but its there. I think for a little more realism it does the job. I don't support graffiti just thought I would model it just like I don't necessary think dirty trains look good but they are in fact dirty! I can understand how people are disgusted buy the real thing but this is just a model and I am not in some gang.Thanks for the replies. I will try to post pics of my graffitied car when I get one done so it can be bashed.
dehusman wrote: Sad fact is that graffitti exists. If you are modeling post 1980's and want to do it accurately you pretty much have to include it.I model the 1900-1905 era and virtually all my fulled detailed models have chalk marks all across the bottoms of the sides. Why do that? Because that was the way they looked.While I secretly wish somebody would go tag the cars and houses of all those who support graffitti as "art", I don't have a problem with it being on model cars in the appropriate era. I model trash and debris piles. Same thing.Dave H.
Sad fact is that graffitti exists. If you are modeling post 1980's and want to do it accurately you pretty much have to include it.
I model the 1900-1905 era and virtually all my fulled detailed models have chalk marks all across the bottoms of the sides. Why do that? Because that was the way they looked.
While I secretly wish somebody would go tag the cars and houses of all those who support graffitti as "art", I don't have a problem with it being on model cars in the appropriate era. I model trash and debris piles. Same thing.
Dave H.
That is what I was thinking. I am trying to model the current time. Figured graffiti is on the trains I see. Don't necessary like it but its there. I think for a little more realism it does the job. I don't support graffiti just thought I would model it just like I don't necessary think dirty trains look good but they are in fact dirty! I can understand how people are disgusted buy the real thing but this is just a model and I am not in some gang.
Thanks for the replies. I will try to post pics of my graffitied car when I get one done so it can be bashed.
dehusman wrote:Sad fact is that graffitti exists. If you are modeling post 1980's and want to do it accurately you pretty much have to include it.I model the 1900-1905 era and virtually all my fulled detailed models have chalk marks all across the bottoms of the sides. Why do that? Because that was the way they looked.While I secretly wish somebody would go tag the cars and houses of all those who support graffitti as "art", I don't have a problem with it being on model cars in the appropriate era. I model trash and debris piles. Same thing.Dave H.
tstage wrote: Rotorranch wrote:That's one thing I really don't like about this forum. Kalmbach is way too sensitive about things. If you post a link to something that may be a competitor of the big K, it gets pulled. If you post something about a competitor of one it's advertisers, it get's pulled. If you post something negative about MTH, it gets pulled. I don't think the entire thread needs to be deleted, just the offending posts. Too many threads with good info get totally removed, denying the readers of what may have been useful to them.I don't see this very much on the other model railroad forums I frequent.I wish Kalmbach would lighten up a bit. Just my RotorAs far as Kalmbach, EVERY forum has its rules and regulations. Yes, Kalmbach may be more "strict" than other forums on the Net but that's the position they have taken. They are a business and we are their guests. Tom
Rotorranch wrote:That's one thing I really don't like about this forum. Kalmbach is way too sensitive about things. If you post a link to something that may be a competitor of the big K, it gets pulled. If you post something about a competitor of one it's advertisers, it get's pulled. If you post something negative about MTH, it gets pulled. I don't think the entire thread needs to be deleted, just the offending posts. Too many threads with good info get totally removed, denying the readers of what may have been useful to them.I don't see this very much on the other model railroad forums I frequent.I wish Kalmbach would lighten up a bit. Just my Rotor
As far as Kalmbach, EVERY forum has its rules and regulations. Yes, Kalmbach may be more "strict" than other forums on the Net but that's the position they have taken. They are a business and we are their guests.
steinjr wrote: doctorwayne wrote: I am as disgusted with graffiti as Chuck and many others here, but it is a (sad) fact of the times. It goes back a long way, too. While I don't mind if someone wishes to model this on their railroad, the original poster was, in my opinion, not especially competent and his attitude much too confrontational for a hobby forum. That said, some of our experienced Members, again, in my opinion, reacted a little too fervently. <snip> However, we let this one go down the tubes by rising to the bait of the OP, rather than rising above it. Wayne For making the error of judgement, I do apologize to the the forum members and to the moderators. And I agree that I would very much like to see a thread about "modelling urban railroading". Stein
doctorwayne wrote: I am as disgusted with graffiti as Chuck and many others here, but it is a (sad) fact of the times. It goes back a long way, too. While I don't mind if someone wishes to model this on their railroad, the original poster was, in my opinion, not especially competent and his attitude much too confrontational for a hobby forum. That said, some of our experienced Members, again, in my opinion, reacted a little too fervently. <snip> However, we let this one go down the tubes by rising to the bait of the OP, rather than rising above it. Wayne
I am as disgusted with graffiti as Chuck and many others here, but it is a (sad) fact of the times. It goes back a long way, too. While I don't mind if someone wishes to model this on their railroad, the original poster was, in my opinion, not especially competent and his attitude much too confrontational for a hobby forum. That said, some of our experienced Members, again, in my opinion, reacted a little too fervently.
<snip>
However, we let this one go down the tubes by rising to the bait of the OP, rather than rising above it.
For making the error of judgement, I do apologize to the the forum members and to the moderators.
And I agree that I would very much like to see a thread about "modelling urban railroading".
Stein
Apology accepted Captain Needa
Rotor,
Locking and/or deleting a thread is usually the last resort taken by the moderators. If a thread can be "cleaned up" - i.e. the offending post or posts removed from the thread - by all means, that's the preferred method taken. However, there are times when this is not practical because 1) the amount of posts needing deleted is just too many, and 2) deleting too many posts often fragments a thread until it becomes disjunct and/or difficult to follow and understand.
The few threads that are locked or deleted do become obvious to everyone. However, there are often times threads that remain on the forum - where the offending posts have been removed - and sometimes the only one or ones who know that any infraction has even taken place is the moderator and the offending party.
Rotor, if I were to come over to your house, should you not expect me to comply to the rules that you have laid down for your household? That's exactly the way it is here. Kalmbach has graciously allowed us to "come into their home" and use their forum to discuss trains and model railroading. We (and that includes the moderators) must comply with the rules that the "homeowner" has laid down.
As Walter Cronkite used to say, "And that's the way it is..."
doctorwayne wrote:I am as disgusted with graffiti as Chuck and many others here, but it is a (sad) fact of the times. It goes back a long way, too. While I don't mind if someone wishes to model this on their railroad, the original poster was, in my opinion, not especially competent and his attitude much too confrontational for a hobby forum. That said, some of our experienced Members, again, in my opinion, reacted a little too fervently. <snip> However, we let this one go down the tubes by rising to the bait of the OP, rather than rising above it. Wayne
Wayne, as always you make sense.
I do wish I had left my remarks to just trying to answer the general question posed by allaircooled - "why do some threads about grafitti cause such strong emotions?", and not in the same post having said anything about any specific posters.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I am as disgusted with graffiti as Chuck and many others here, but it is a (sad) fact of the times. It goes back a long way, too. While I don't mind if someone wishes to model this on their railroad, the original poster was, in my opinion, not especially competent and his attitude much too confrontational for a hobby forum. That said, some of our experienced Members, again, in my opinion, reacted a little too fervently. The point could have been made about disliking this type of activity in a more polite fashion, then the direction of the confrontation steered back towards the topic at hand, which was "ANYBODY MODEL URBAN!!!!!" (Sorry if I didn't use the correct number of !s. ) As I noted in my post there, urban means different things to different people, and we did get (a few) good pictures of urban modelling. However, we let this one go down the tubes by rising to the bait of the OP, rather than rising above it.
selector wrote:That isn't a bad idea at all, Maxman, except that it would impose an inordinate amount of work on the mods. Remember, we volunteer our time and service to you and the membership. If we had to also sanitize entire threads, some of them eventually three and four pages long, but leave the title with an explanatory post below it, it would take some doing. I suppose we could just delete the whole thing, and then repost on our own with the same title and the explanatory note...
I'm not suggesting that anything be sanitized. If the thread needs to be exploded, so be it. But if someone is going to be responsible for being the policeman or arbiter of what is correct, I don't think that the one extra step of at least acknowledging that the topic existed at one time would require that much more effort. An example is: http://cs.trains.com/forums/9883/ShowPost.aspx
I don't know what could have been explosive about this topic, but that's not my business. At least I could see that if there was something that caught my eye in the morning but didn't attempt to view until later had been deleted, I wouldn't be wasting a lot of time trying to find it under the three broad forum headings.
Again, the reasons for the deletions don't really require an explanation, except in maybe a few isolated instances. An example of that would be a recent thread where one of the manufacturers was being taken to task. That thread disappeared. But then the "what happened to ..." thread also disappeared. I personally think that the 53,000 or so members of this forum certainly deserved some explanation. But then, that's my opinion.
Regards!
Edit: when I said I didn't know what could have been explosive about the topic, I was referring to the one in the link, not the modeling urban topic.
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...