Dumb newbie question on structures(glue and paint)

[Anonymous]

Hi again,
This is pretty basic but I just bought my first Gscale Piko train station kit and was wondering what glue to use to assemble and what kind of paint for outdoors. I have built things in N and HO and they are no brainers. But now we are outside and the rules change. Thanks in advance.[:)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Any enamel spray paint should be fine, but stay away from Rust-oleum. Regular plastic cements should also be fine for outdoor use.

[Anonymous]

I just built a greenhouse for my outdoor railroad and I found M.E.K. to work . The wattery solvent wicks its way between the parts and bonds them together really strong . Dries fast too ! You can get a can of this stuff at most any hardware store or home improvement center . P.S. you will also need a small paint bru***o apply it to the work piece. Try it ,I think you will be real pleased with the results and the stuff will last you for a whole town of buildings .

[Big_Boy_4005]

M.E.K. Methyl Ethyl Ketone is the active ingredient in most of the hobby brands such as Testors. I'm not sure the smallest quantity available at the hardware store. You may get more for the same money. Just make sure ths cover is on tight, because it really likes to evaporate. That's why it dries so fast.

A 3cc syringe works very well as an applicator, if you can get one. Pharmacies are rather sticky about selling syringes. If you do manage to get one, make sure you empty it after each use, and put the safety cap back on the needle. Also, pull the plunger out. The rubber tip will last a lot longer. Solvents tend to cause the rubber to swell and get gummy.

[tangerine-jack]

Call me silly, but I like to overbuild. After using MEK or any of it's dirivatives, I run a bead of "Liquid Nails" down each major corner on the inside and attatch a piece of stripwood (preferably salt treated) as re-inforcement. Not much different than HO or N scale, only the bigger the building, the more you will use real building materials. On occasion I have also used small screws to further re-inforce the critical joints. Like I said, I like to overbuild, you never know what kind of critter wanders around the yard at night thinking "hmm, wouldn't this be good to eat/ lay in/ bury/ etc"

[Anonymous]

Tangerine- Jack, I'm with you on the reinforcement of corners with construction adhesive/ Liquid nails. I use the heck out of the stuff at work to keep wide boards from cupping to stair treads from creaking.

[Anonymous]

Hi iaviksfan
MEK is good for solvant but do use in a well ventalated area.
reenfocing the corners is good as well.
I would sugest exterior grade acrylic house paint inside and out those little sample colour choice type pots are good cheep and will last a while if looked after.
Wash it thoroughly and dry before painting much the same process as with HO & N just different glue and paint and still paint the inside flat black to stop light shining through the walls if you decide to light the building.
you do have a bit more scope as to what you can do because the building is larger
regards John

[tangerine-jack]

I sure like the larger stuff. Your absolutely right, John, your scope is very much increased outdoors. Who would think of using brick and concrete inside? How about real glass windows, real wood or concrete sidewalks, way cool to be outside in the fresh air.
To get back to the original question, I will say this: have fun experimenting. Go to Home Depot instead of the hobby shop. Explore your neighborhood for interesting things for your RR. Don't be afraid of failure-raccoons don't care about art, so you can leave your failures to appease them, that way they will leave your good stuff alone. And finaly- the only dumb question is the one unasked.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

And finaly- the only dumb question is the one unasked.

Tangerine-Jack hit the nail! There are no dumb questions, so just ask away.

[Kiwi Down Under]

Just to back up what carpenter matt advises, I have used all types of glues, some worked, most dont, and it costs a fortune for a little tube.

But construction adhesive ( liquid nails and other brands) have not failed yet. Bit messy, but they work

Even on a metal knife I used to spread it with, forgot to clean it with turps, so had to grind it off. If its sticks and hardens that well to stainless steel, it will stick to anything.
Tony

[kstrong]

My column in the October issue of Garden Railways talks about building plastic kits. It should be in your mailbox in a few days or so, if you haven't gotten it already.

Plastic glues work well, some folks use silicon adhesive. I've also used a glue called "Marine Goop" for various projects with delightful results. As for paints, use something you'd use on your house. Craft and model paints tend to not be UV stable, so you'll run the risk of them fading and peeling quickly.

For more on glues and paints, I covered both topics a few issues back. I don't recall which issues specifically right off the top of my head, but all within the past year or so.

Later,

K

[grandpopswalt]

I've started using PVC pipe glue primer (the purple stuff) that you apply before putting on the glue. So far it has been doing the job better than the clear "plastic welding" solvents sold in hobby shops.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Well mate I do not believe there are any dumb questions; the really dumb ones are those who say nothing, ask nothing and know nothing.

I use Liquid nails for glue and waterproof paving paint, as i live in the tropics and we are concerned about getting water in and rusting or rotting away. There are several types of liquid nails available, i use mainly the common garden variety standard stuff but they have bought out a grey coloured stuff for masonary and as i am doing a lot of assembly of concrete (cement) items it should be pretty good but i am getting mixed results, mainly good though.

Regrds


Ian

[Anonymous]

Ok, This is going to sound really dumb, but doesn't Liquid nails come in a caulking tube? I guess I'll have to plan a trip to the store. Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions. My Piko Kit "Grizzley Flats" station arrived yesterday. This
will be my first "g" scale kit to assemble. I was kinda taken back on the size and weight of the box. Compared to N and HO kits. It was kinda like WOW. [:)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iaviksfan

Ok, This is going to sound really dumb, but doesn't Liquid nails come in a caulking tube? I guess I'll have to plan a trip to the store. Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions. My Piko Kit "Grizzley Flats" station arrived yesterday. This
will be my first "g" scale kit to assemble. I was kinda taken back on the size and weight of the box. Compared to N and HO kits. It was kinda like WOW. [:)]

Sounds like a like a little case of "SCALE SHOCK". [swg] You'll get over it, then that other stuff will look "wimpy".[;)][(-D][(-D][(-D]

QUOTE: by grandpopswalt
I've started using PVC pipe glue primer (the purple stuff) that you apply before putting on the glue. So far it has been doing the job better than the clear "plastic welding" solvents sold in hobby shops.

Walt, they make that primer in a clear also. The purple is for the building inspector, so that he knows the plumber preped the joints. I guess it's no big deal to use the purple if you are painting afterwords, at least you can see where the stuff is going.

I like the ideas about the liquid nails or even a simple acrylic latex house caulk on the inside for reinforcing the corners, but the regular liquid cements are still probably best for the initial construction.

[tangerine-jack]

AH-HA!! The joy of garden railroading! Yes, iavisfan and Big Boy 4005, no more whimpy little gurlie mens HO scale for us! We have moved into the Manlie-Man realm of BIG TRAINS. Get out your shovel, were movin' dirt! Woodland Senics? Phoo! How about senic wood lands. Were talkin 800lb rocks here, leave that stupid Mountains in Minutes junk for the unenlightened. Resin water? What the .......? Where are the Koi going to live? Yes, nothing satisfies as much as a 6lb boxcar or 15lb locamotive. Live steam...yes, 12V DC...no. Were talking amperage people!! Got work gloves?

Liquid nails comes in either tube or caulking form. I use the caulk form (about $3.00) with a caulking gun I got from the Dollar Store. The tube form is also about the same price, but 1/3 the quantity. Use whichever is more convienient. The tube will waste less, but I use the stuff on a number of things around the house, so the caulk form is more practical for me.

See how much info you got from your very wise, expertly asked question?

[Anonymous]

Yes that is right it comes in cartriges that will fir your caulking gun. I also use 150 mm (6") coach bolts and i fire big brads into anything that looks like moving with my brad gun. If you have any doubts concrete (cement) the whole thing and see if it moves even in tropical monsoons.

Rgds ian

[Anonymous]

Ok,Ok, I didn't think that the stuff came in anything else but tubes. Now how about this? Would Liquid nails for Tub surrounds work? It is even more water proof and just as strong? Tangerine Jack, Yes I really don't miss the fragile little N and HO parts. G scale has mass Looks like you are getting more for you buck. [:)]

[tangerine-jack]

Hmm, don't know about the other type of adhesive. Perhaps you can experiment and let us all know the results. You might have discovered a better way!

I more or less follow the philosophy of iandor, now that we are outside and the "rules" have changed (although I never have actually learned the "rules" as such) use whatever works in your area. Because of the sandy soil in my area (Virginia Beach) I have to sink any posts at least 2ft with concrete and so forth in order to prevent things from falling down. Big bolts and 4x4 lumber are the order of the day in the world of G scale.

Hey iandor, what is the cyclic and sustained rate of fire on your brad gun? Is is good against raccoons?[oX)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Just a couple of quick thoughts on Liquid Nails, based on my experience with it in general construction, not in this garden application. Regular Liquid Nails is a solvent based product, so care should be taken when using it with plastics.

Do a test first to see how the plastic in your particular model reacts. Some plastics can become gummy and not dry properly. The other thing to consider is cold weather. Liquid Nails tends to become brittle faster than the acrylic latex slyles of caulk. This may not really be much of an issue, since the plastic cement joints are also going to be slightly brittle too.

[tangerine-jack]

That's a good point you brought up Big Boy 4005, durability in extreme conditions is and will be a factor in garden railroading. The environment will eventualy win out over our best construction methods and materials anyway, so the best we can do is to prolong the inevitable as long as possible. I know where I live, even the best of the best will blow away in a hurricane or subcome to salt air corrosion and moisture rot. On the bright side, it gives us a perfect excuse to build new and better stuff![oX)]

[Anonymous]

At the risk of being repetitive, I always find myself being the advocate for Loctite's Stik 'n Seal, which you can get at Wal-Mart in a blister pack. This is truly an excellent waterproof product for outdoor use.

Here is a link relating to it:

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/repairs.asp?qfid=8&Product=198

Regards,
Bill C.
South Jersey

[Anonymous]

my 2 cents: i've used Liquid Nails for attaching painted wood to painted drywall. in each case, the paint was either semi-gloss or flat. After 2 months, the work crashed to the floor unannounced. (this happened 3 times, which shows you what a slow learner I am.) Finally, the light bulb went on. I sanded the wood objects, and the drywall itself. No problems since. Now, if this happens indoors, you might want to consider a rough-up of the surfaces you're attaching outside, where it obviously is a lot wetter. I'd venture to say this holds true, no matter what surface, materiale, adhesive, or weather patterns you're faced with. About the only exception i can think of is, if you want to actually undo your work and pry apart the glued seams so you can "re-hash/kit-bash". In delicate N gauge, that could be a problem, but considering the actual real-world materiale you're dealing with, a crowbar might not be inappropriate. Hey, real gandydancers use 'em all the time....sometimes, i'd like to use one on these N gauge kits!

[Anonymous]

Choocher,

I really like your log on name. I think its cool!

Welcome to the forum!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by choocher

my 2 cents: i've used Liquid Nails for attaching painted wood to painted drywall. in each case, the paint was either semi-gloss or flat. After 2 months, the work crashed to the floor unannounced. (this happened 3 times, which shows you what a slow learner I am.) Finally, the light bulb went on. I sanded the wood objects, and the drywall itself. No problems since. Now, if this happens indoors, you might want to consider a rough-up of the surfaces you're attaching outside, where it obviously is a lot wetter. I'd venture to say this holds true, no matter what surface, materiale, adhesive, or weather patterns you're faced with. About the only exception i can think of is, if you want to actually undo your work and pry apart the glued seams so you can "re-hash/kit-bash". In delicate N gauge, that could be a problem, but considering the actual real-world materiale you're dealing with, a crowbar might not be inappropriate. Hey, real gandydancers use 'em all the time....sometimes, i'd like to use one on these N gauge kits!

Choocher, when you attached the wood to the drywall was the drywall itself painted? I make the builder a least prime the drywall before attaching wood otherwise the construction adhesive will bond to that haze of dust left behind by the sanders and as you said fall to the floor. I however have never experenced prefinished wood not bonding correctly. I also prefer Titebonds construction adhesive over Liquid nails anyday. For a thinner bond use Subfloor adhesive. On the cleanup note use xylene or Goof off, Goof off is just overprice Xylene anyway. Just make sure the surface around the glue joint won't be eaten away by the xylene so test to make sure. Use in a welll venilated area! [xx(]
it's more likely to"Squish" more tightly together. Oh, one more thing if you have the ability depending on application you can stick and pull the pieces apart 2 to 3 times it releases the vapors from the glue and speeds up the curring time.[;)]