Hello gang. It has been a while, 2 years I think, since we had our last "Builders Challenge". For those of you who have not seen or heard of a Builders Challenge, here is how it works:
Rules: We argue over the rules for a week or two, before we all agree, but they usually go something like:
1. Must be primarily salvaged raw material, preferably from someone else's trashcan. 2. Glues, nails, screws, paint are normally allowed to be purchased or off the work shelf. 3. Nothing, or very little, from your "spare parts bin" (a.k.a. Junk Drawer). 4. Subject of construction: Something RR related. 5. We normally set a completion date about two months out. 6. Pictures of the raw material must be posted along with the photo of completed project.
Prize: None, other than bragging rights, and something new for your GRR. In other words, everybody wins.
As an example, one year I took a broken redwood wine bottle rack from my neighbors trash can and built a coal tipple.
Anyone up for the challenge?
Tom Trigg
Hi Tom
I'm trying to use up a bunch of leftover existing stuff from the big layout on the portable, does that count?
Have fun with your trains
I'm in. Just need to get some wood...
vsmith Hi Tom I'm trying to use up a bunch of leftover existing stuff from the big layout on the portable, does that count?
I would guess so, so long as it ends up looking like something entirely different, old building looking like new mine = OK, Old store front looks like new store front, Not OK.
santafe347 I'm in. Just need to get some wood...
Pull some from a neighbors trash can.
I'm in. We need a theme. Last time it was whimsical munincipal MOW vehicles. We had a Wallace and Grommet vehicle, a Dalek exterminator, rocket powered thingies and such. What will it be this time? Track side structures? Stations, manufacturers, commodities, rolling stock or locos? To be completed by??? 4th july? Since the challenger set the parameters for budget, I agree to that.
Let's hammer out the basic rules (fewer the better) and let the best TJ win!
Here is the link to the last build off. Man, that was fun!:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/49550/628201.aspx#628201
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
Suggested rules for the build off.
Now for the hard part, do we build 1) a structure for our towns or business district? 2) a piece of rolling stock? 3) a track side structure (serviced by or owned by the railroad)? 4) Ghost town/abandoned structure.
I'm thinking along the lines of an abandoned structure, or a non track side business. I am open to a piece of rolling stock as I do have some wheel sets purchased over three years ago.
I would expect that we would build something not related to the last build off, so a structure of some kind is my thinking. Something that would serve a purpose on the layout that the builder can use on a daily basis, so I'm thinking a passanger station or rail served business.
How bout a speakeazy/house of ill repute to cater to the railroaders needs?
Already got that, it's called Hotel California"
tangerine-jack I would expect that we would build something not related to the last build off, so a structure of some kind is my thinking. Something that would serve a purpose on the layout that the builder can use on a daily basis, so I'm thinking a passenger station or rail served business.
I say passenger station OR freight depot or any trackside business with a rail side loading dock.
Since 48 hours have passed without further input, I hereby set the terms of the challenge;
To Wit:
1.Salvage/recycled construction materials.
2. Any structure that has a trackside loading dock. Depot, warehouse, manufacturing plant, etc.
3. Finished photo to be posted not later than noon (your) local time.
4. Nail, screws, glues, stains, and paints are not required to be recycled materials.
Prize: none, just bragging rights.
Agreed. See you on the 4th with my winning entry.....
tangerine-jack Agreed. See you on the 4th with my winning entry.....
If you think you're going to get it that easy, you are sorely mistaken sir.
This past weekend I acquired about 30 foot of 25-year-old redwood fence. The paint has worn away by about 30%, so what ever I build will already have a dilapidated paint job. Now my only problem is "DA BOSS", for some strange reason she does not appreciate my collection of used wood.
Yeah whatever. Hope you like the taste of defeat.
Perhaps this should be posted over on the general discussion forum. It should ignite more interest and get more forum members involved with the build off.
tangerine-jack Yeah whatever. Hope you like the taste of defeat. Perhaps this should be posted over on the general discussion forum. It should ignite more interest and get more forum members involved with the build off.
Howdy TJ, Hope you’re correct, but than maybe the people who want everything RTR don’t care to go to this part of the forum. Having support in a hobby is one thing; having EVERYTHING one could ever want dumped on the market is another. Let’s give creativity a break. I’d rather see a railroad built by a guy with dirty hands.
Sorry for the sermon, let us have fun, Rob
Rob:
Don't worry about T.J. He has been putting up with me for a few years now. He is fun to "putz" with. If you read back a couple of years ago we had some grand fun with the war of the "Robber Barons." You do need to be prepared to be "putzed" with any time you mess with T.J. and the "Floating Capt."
I just finished two trolley stops made from recycled redwood fence boards. Is it too late to enter? They were pretty simple. A scale 56 feet long by ten feet wide. It sits on 3 foot tall feet and feature canopies made of gutter flashing. I've installed a light in each one. Pictures on request, as I have no idea how to put them up on this board.
Triggy, don't worry about Rob. A multitude of years ago he served in the "bathtub navy"; he knows how to putz around! We've had some e-conversations about the time when he was stationed here in Slower Lower Delaware; and believe me in those days it was slower!
Dick Friedman Pictures on request, as I have no idea how to put them up on this board.
Pictures on request, as I have no idea how to put them up on this board.
Dick: Pictures are REQUIRED. The easy way of doing that is: Open an account over at "Phobucket dot com", It is FREE, which is good. Post your picture there, then when you are looking at your photo, there are 4 links to your photo listed in the data area, just copy the bottom link and past it into the text editing box on this site.
Capt Bob Johnson Triggy, don't worry about Rob.
Capt Bob, not really worried about Rob, just warning him that some of us putz with one another just for the fun of it.
Ah yes, the Robber Baron wars. I remember them fondly. Now THAT was a lot of fun.
I suggested posting on the General topic forum because even though I build a lot, I don't always read the scratchbuilding forum myself. Perhaps a fun build off (of which I am the foregone winner) will inspire someone to scratch a project that normaly wouldn't do it otherwise.
Fun, that's the key. Fun friends, fun hobbies and fun smack talking. Perhaps somewhere in it all we will get around to the trains.......
Hi gang; I’ve been off the forum the last couple of days dumpster diving for Challenge recycle materials; I think us Coasties invented scrounging. I don’t know if I should apologize (when I used TJs quote I missed deleting his top line of chitchat) or explain my views toward the RTR market trend. I have no, zero, issues with anyone. I think the Builders Challenge is a great idea; and when I find the magic mess I hope my recycle will suffice.
No offence taken Rob. I didn't find anything you wrote that required an apology.
The RTR, made in China movement is a constant irritant to me. As an off topic, I"ve been shopping for a nice leather belt and a new pair of boots (western style) and all I've found is "made in China" on every label, sorry no sale. I'm not putting Americans out of a job when I do have other choices. My favorite boots for everyday are Doc Martens, and English standard, but alas, "Made in China" now appears on the coveted Docs. Sad for Doc Marten, but I will not be buying any more shoes or boots from them. I have found a web site that is all made in USA goods, from now on that is where I am ordering things, or at least getting brands and product information that I can purchase localy. Chinese cowboy boots....as if.....
The RTR is irritating because I like to build old skool, not just trains, but my other hobby of control line/ RC airplanes. Everything is now electric foamy RTF (ready to fly) made in China and naturaly hobby stores don't stock things line control handles, flying wires and raw balsa like they used to. In fact, the majority of hobby stores have no clue what "control line" airplanes are, let alone the equipment that goes along with it. As a result the hobby stores don't stock the detail parts and raw materials like they used to, but I understand they must sell what people are buying in order to stay in business.
I refuse to plunk down my money just to have something store bought that everybody else has also, and it hurts the economy when I do it. I refuse to conform.
Just a couple of years ago the Buy American credo didn't hold much water. We were in a global economy and money and goods (both real and intellectual) were flowing both ways. We'd ditched our relatively low profit manufacting sector and embraced the lead in global finance and information. But since the economic meltdown it's every country for itself. So by all means, if we can find something made in the USA we should be buying it. But, let's keep in mind that those $50 freight cars and $250 engines are going to cost a whole lot more when they're made in the USA. If we want to return manufacturing to the US we have to be willing to pay our workers a decent salary. And it's not just the folks on the assembly line that cost less overseas, it's also the guys that make the machinery, the workers that build their plants, the engineers who design it, etc, etc. So, if we want to make it here then we have to accept the increase in the price of manufactured goods.
True Walt, but if I buy 3 pairs of $20 Chinese shoes a year because they wear out or come apart, or buy one pair of $60 USA made shoes (New Balance) that last three years, what's the better value?
True that part of the problem is the consumer, wanting all the gizmos and gadgets and 50 sets of clothing no matter what the income level of the person. The "low price" wars were egged on by the consumer who lost sight of "value" and thought "price" was the measure of success. The philosophy is one of entitlement of goods.
I have a leather jacket, made in USA (Fox Creek), that I've had now for over 10 years, it's going strong. I also have a duster style long coat, made in Wyoming (Schaefer), I bought in 1992 and wear every winter. Chinese made jackets (that I wear usualy at work) last maybe one season, perhaps two. It's the same story with tools, building supplies, household items etc.
I am willing to spend a little more on a product that puts Americans to work (improving the buying power of the individual and contributing to lower prices) and will last for a long time, thereby giving me long term value over short term price savings.
I very much agree with the "Buy American" policy, however, Fairness demands a demonstration of just how American labor priced itself out of the market!
20 years ago, 2AM, I get on an American flag ship to guide it up to Philly and the Capt. says "Pilot, I'd love to offer you a cup of coffee, but I refuse to pay the messman and second cook 8 hours of overtime to do it. Even if the mate here makes it, they get the overtime by contract; so I'm afraid you'll have to wait until breakfast!"
You look at the auto factories today and many of the non-union plants actually pay more per hour than the Union shops do; so what's the difference? Work rules! I can tighten a lug nut, but I can't put the wheel on the hub!
Now I expect a lot of flak over the comments I made, but that is what is saw, heard, and read in today's papers!
Normal 0
I worked in the industrial automation business for over 35 years and have been in every kind of plant there is, including merchant marine ships. And I too have seen some mind numbing examples of labor's abuse of common sense work rules. The auto industry is perhaps the best example. In the 60's and 70's the UAW bargained hard for concessions and management caved in almost every time. Why, because they knew they could pass on the added labor cost to the consumer. And it's possible that that mind-set carried forward until it wrecked an entire industry (along with egregious ineptitude of management).
However, I've also seen the other side of the issue. We're seldom shown the small (and sometimes large) shops where people have to work under near slave-like conditions for minimum wage or just a few cents over per hour. It's been my experience that American labor is not nearly as well treated or compensated as most of us think. But, our workers are still much better off than equivalent workers in China or India or Eastern Europe, or etc, etc. And that's the point of this discussion. American companies can now easily ship their manufacturing to third world countries and get it done for a fraction of the cost. In most cases companies have no choice but to export manufacturing. It's either do that or get clobbered by offshore competitors.
It just may be that low skill manufacturing jobs in America can no longer be sustained. The rest of the world has caught up with us and in most cases can produce goods that are as good or very nearly as good as something we make here (unless it's something going to Walmart to be sold for $.50 a gross). So we may have to leave commodity manufacturing to someone else and concentrate on developing jobs that can't be exported. But in the long run the only answer is EDUCATION. A high school diploma just doesn't cut it anymore.
Walt
I agree with you Walt. But let's not forget that over 140,000 Chinese workers die every year in industrial accidents. Also remember that China is producing twice the pollution as the rest of the world combined, and the workers have no protection at the workplace either in the form of personal gear or law.
Maybe the rest of the world has caught up with us in worker compensations, but not in quality, environment or workplace safety. Antifreeze is not a food component, nor is lead. Nor should I call a manufacturer and get somebody in India to resolve a problem with a product I bought across the street.
Here’s how I see it, American companies say they can’t compete because of high labor costs, insinuating the American worker is the problem. However remember labor costs include everyone from the CEO, President and umpteen Vice Presidents pulling down six figure salaries on down to the lowly guy doing the manual labor.
I give another case. I drive a Chevy Avalanche made in Ontario, Canada by General Motors an American Co. Patricia drives a Subaru a Japanese car made in Indiana. Which is the real American Co? To me it’s the one hiring Americans.
Hello TJ I wished you would have posted this in the general discussion forum. I would have seen it sooner and tried my hand at it. I don't think I can get any thing done by the 4Th now. Can the challenge be done in any scale? Thanks Frank
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