Dennis: I put it on the back burner...WAY on the back burner.
Right now my priority is finding a B-Unit for my Century F3s (6-18178).
Dep
Virginian Railroad
Dep, as was mentioned earlier, if you really want one...., I just picked up a Jersey Central version with all the TMCC, Odyssy , Smoke, etc, for $175.00 brand new in the box. At this price, I would have been willing to install all the bells and whistles myself, but I was suprised to find that it has everything. I got it at a dealer who does online sales too, but not the closeout prices of some.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
jaabat wrote: Deputy wrote: Sorry Jim...been burned once and the guy had a 100% rating. I play it safe. I did contact an online dealer (Legacy Station) and asked if they had any. If you really want one Dep, you'll find one. Just be patient. Patience is the key to pretty much everything in life, grasshopper. Hey, wait till you see my 2671 shell!!! Photos soon.Jim
Deputy wrote: Sorry Jim...been burned once and the guy had a 100% rating. I play it safe. I did contact an online dealer (Legacy Station) and asked if they had any.
Sorry Jim...been burned once and the guy had a 100% rating. I play it safe.
I did contact an online dealer (Legacy Station) and asked if they had any.
If you really want one Dep, you'll find one. Just be patient. Patience is the key to pretty much everything in life, grasshopper.
Hey, wait till you see my 2671 shell!!! Photos soon.
Jim
Can't wait to see it!!! I haven't been able to work on the 6200 decal. Remodelers are here working on the house and it's a mess.
Deputy wrote:Sorry Jim...been burned once and the guy had a 100% rating. I play it safe. I did contact an online dealer (Legacy Station) and asked if they had any.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Deputy wrote: ben10ben wrote: Ask and ye shall receivehttp://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-H-16-44-NYC-Diesel-Locomotive-TMCC_W0QQitemZ200109675045QQihZ010QQcategoryZ4148QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemStandard disclaimers apply: no connection with the seller, no interest in whether or not its sold, etc etc. DRAT!!! No can do I'd buy it using the Buy It Now price, but no PayPal means no protection if the guy keeps the money order. Thanks anyway Dep
ben10ben wrote: Ask and ye shall receivehttp://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-H-16-44-NYC-Diesel-Locomotive-TMCC_W0QQitemZ200109675045QQihZ010QQcategoryZ4148QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemStandard disclaimers apply: no connection with the seller, no interest in whether or not its sold, etc etc.
Ask and ye shall receive
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-H-16-44-NYC-Diesel-Locomotive-TMCC_W0QQitemZ200109675045QQihZ010QQcategoryZ4148QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Standard disclaimers apply: no connection with the seller, no interest in whether or not its sold, etc etc.
DRAT!!! No can do
I'd buy it using the Buy It Now price, but no PayPal means no protection if the guy keeps the money order. Thanks anyway
His 100% approval rating tells me that him keeping your money and not sending the train is highly improbable.
Sorry, I missed the no paypal thing too. I'm hesistant to buy anything anymore without Paypal too, plus it's just so easy.
I did send one a few weeks ago, but it was only for $60 and the seller had a good reputation. Plus, the excellent price for the camera I bought made it worth the trouble.
Anyway, keep your eyes open, as I'm sure they turn up from time to time.
ben10ben wrote: Way back in 1995, I was in the first grade, and received my first Lionel train set. The catalog that year was the first catalog to showcase the full range of TMCC equipment, along with the first TMCC locomotives. In all 120 pages of that catalog, there are 5 pages which bear the heading "Standard O". In not one of those pages is there anything which included TMCC, Railsounds, or modern conveniences. All of the standard O items were simply larger versions of the items in the O27 section-i.e. 6464 sized items, as opposed to smaller items. Dep,We're telling you that if you want an NYC FM with all the goodies, they're out there. Lionel made them when they first introduced the tooling for the Baby Trainmaster. They have TMCC, Railsounds, smoke, Odyssey, etc. They're everything you want.You could still buy new Baby FMs from the first round two years ago-it took that long for the first ones to sell out. No way is Lionel going to re-release a full-featured engine that took two years to clear off the dealers shelves in the first place. Hence the reason behind this new conventional engine.
Way back in 1995, I was in the first grade, and received my first Lionel train set.
The catalog that year was the first catalog to showcase the full range of TMCC equipment, along with the first TMCC locomotives.
In all 120 pages of that catalog, there are 5 pages which bear the heading "Standard O". In not one of those pages is there anything which included TMCC, Railsounds, or modern conveniences. All of the standard O items were simply larger versions of the items in the O27 section-i.e. 6464 sized items, as opposed to smaller items.
Dep,
We're telling you that if you want an NYC FM with all the goodies, they're out there. Lionel made them when they first introduced the tooling for the Baby Trainmaster. They have TMCC, Railsounds, smoke, Odyssey, etc. They're everything you want.
You could still buy new Baby FMs from the first round two years ago-it took that long for the first ones to sell out. No way is Lionel going to re-release a full-featured engine that took two years to clear off the dealers shelves in the first place. Hence the reason behind this new conventional engine.
I hear ya Ben...but I ain't buying (the loco). The taxicab/stripped down version is not my cup of tea. And the loaded version seems to be non-existent as far as availability at online dealers is concerned. Oh well.
Standard O as a category BEGAN simply as scale-sized and detailed, long before TMCC, RS, Cruise Control, and the other stuff. The first Lionel Standard O cars were derived from Pola 2-rail O molds.
In any case, I don't use the scale locos to pull traditional rolling stock; they pull scale (or near scale, in the case of the K-line passenger cars) rolling stock.
I made a choice between lots of traditional or fewer but larger scale (or nearly so) and went witht he latter as a way of simplifying my life and hobby. I sold off a couple thousand dollars worth of traditional stuff--over a dozen locos and many cars--to buy one loco and a few cars (and also pay off a raft of my wife's medical bills). I now have two trains, one passenger and one freight. As my layout won't really allow more than a few additional pieces, those two trains are all I need. If I can ever find those other two locos I want, I can swap them for the current two for variety, but my maintenance, my storage, and my budget burdens got a LOT lighter when I decided to simplify.
And since I am happiest with Lionel (to answer John, whose suggestion I appreciate), I stick with them (except for the great K-line passenger cars for my T & P engine), furhter simplfying the situation.
All of this simplification is of a piece with the fact that my life is 'way too complicated. Fewer, simpler trains makes my hobby more enjoyable. If you like the complicated stuff, be my guest and welcome! I think it's neat. But it's not for me.
nblum wrote: "I think they came out with this version because the baby FM was a BOMB in the retail market." It's a reasonable theory contradicted by the facts. Lionel has increased the range of conventionally controlled, but scale size locos, across the board. This loco isn't a one-off to make use of tooling that wasn't successful, as you suggest, but part of a dozen or more similar locos in the new catalogs. It represents Lionel's recognition or perception of the demand for conventionally controlled locomotives at more palatable price points. It's that simple, at least to me :).
"I think they came out with this version because the baby FM was a BOMB in the retail market."
It's a reasonable theory contradicted by the facts. Lionel has increased the range of conventionally controlled, but scale size locos, across the board. This loco isn't a one-off to make use of tooling that wasn't successful, as you suggest, but part of a dozen or more similar locos in the new catalogs. It represents Lionel's recognition or perception of the demand for conventionally controlled locomotives at more palatable price points. It's that simple, at least to me :).
Hmmmm...I guess Lionel is also "redefining" what Standard O really means too. What this loco represents is NOT what is described in their catalogs or what has generally been taken as Standard O norm. I guess anyone who already has Standard O is gonna have to be REAL careful about what they buy in the future. Standard O now only refers to the scale size of the loco and does not necessarily mean the top-of-the-line in Lionel locos as far as features, details, and equipment.
Well I always like to follow the money trail. And in this case I think Lionel coming out with a stripped-down version of this loco has nothing to do with catering to the folks wanting an inexpensive gigantic O-scale loco to pull conventional-size rolling stock . I think they came out with this version because the baby FM was a BOMB in the retail market. It's not exactly stylish like an F3. It's not an awesome puller like it's bigger brother the FM Trainmaster. It's not well known and recognized among the toy train fraternity. And for the price of $400 samolies, you could have got a loco that DID have all those advantages. I suspect this re-release is an effort by Lionel to get rid of something that didn't move worth squat as a full-featured loco. And they could use the electronics on a loco that WAS a big seller. I guess looking at it from that point of view....it makes sense.
sir james I wrote:YA but,,,,,,,,,,Having Proto 2 in everything is what keeps me from buying MTH.
Good point. More than a few of us just want to run conventional trains without all the electronics.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
"MTH Rail King has a bunch of scale locos and pretty much ALL their Rail King locos have Proto 2 as standard equipment."
Thus pricing it out of the preferred price range of many of those posting on this thread. One size may not fit all, and Lionel is trying to meet that variety of demands. It's that simple.
fifedog wrote: Gee, Jimbo, we could be the next Rogers & Hamburger!!!
fifedog wrote:I'm a conventional kinda guy."Keep your hand on the throttle, and your eye upon the rail..."
I'm a conventional kinda guy.
"Keep your hand on the throttle, and your eye upon the rail..."
I'm a conventional kinda guy too. But you got the saying wrong. It goes like this...
"Get your hand off the bottle and back on the throttle"!
I also pre-ordered the Santa Fe F3 AB. It smokes and has a horn. My son John is a Santa Fe freak, so he is going to love it. It is the only way I would be able to get a loco that detailed and scale brand new at a price I'm comfortable with. It's due to ship this month.
Dave Connoly: Thanks for the info. I had no idea it was available with all the goodies. As to me being a rich SOB...just ain't so. I save my money I get from my pension until I can afford what I want. No silver spoon in my mouth I'm trying to understand....are you guys wanting to buy scale locos to pull conventional-size freight cars? I tend to not mix my cars together if at all possible. I have locos in both scale and conventional and like to keep the rolling stock seperated. As to stripped locos being nice...I think they could AT LEAST put Trainsounds into it. I mean they put that in some of their lowest level trainsets and they sell for about the same as this one loco. I am NOT knocking Williams-style locos without all the fancy gadgets. I just wish Lionel would keep the budget stuff seperate from the Standard O stuff. Let me quote Lionels own words describing Standard O... "Acurate reproductions of rolling stock and locomotives. Scale proportions. Super-detailed with many seperately applied parts." Now if they are gonna drop the quality and options on Standard O to Traditional levels, they better be dang sure they are willing to lose the Standard O buyers. An even better idea would have been if Lionel took the MTH approach of upgrading the lower line to a higher level, rather than downgrading their top line. MTH Rail King has a bunch of scale locos and pretty much ALL their Rail King locos have Proto 2 as standard equipment. And they work in both conventional and DCS modes.
I personally preferred the OPTION to convert convertional scale diesels to TMCC and railsounds- by selling these 'CONVENTIONAL ONLY' engines Lionel leaves the corps of diehard scale buyers no choice but to obtain aftermarket electronics to upgrade these engines.I know they also did it to sell more engines and avoid making more TMCC and railsounds modules (or avoid running short of available supplies), but Lionel took a very viable option from those of us who like both scale dimensions and command control, but wanted to wait to upgrade or couldn't afford to buy a fully loaded engine.Geno
palallin wrote: As a matter of fact, such pleas are regularly made, by me, for one example.I don't want the extra expense of useless features, but I do want the scale or near-scale dimensions. Other than the O27 stuff I run for nostalgia's sake, I have exactly two trains, one Frisco frieght, one T & P passenger, and both are scale pieces. There are two more engines I want: a Frisco Ten Wheeler and a MoPac RS-11. Both are scale, but both are loaded with electronic gimcrakery which drives their prices too high for me. I dearly wish that Lionel had made them without the bells and whistles and especially without the CC so that I could employ and afford them. With luck, this trend at Lionel for some scale-sized but uncomplicated locos will produce others I can afford.
As a matter of fact, such pleas are regularly made, by me, for one example.
I don't want the extra expense of useless features, but I do want the scale or near-scale dimensions.
Other than the O27 stuff I run for nostalgia's sake, I have exactly two trains, one Frisco frieght, one T & P passenger, and both are scale pieces. There are two more engines I want: a Frisco Ten Wheeler and a MoPac RS-11. Both are scale, but both are loaded with electronic gimcrakery which drives their prices too high for me. I dearly wish that Lionel had made them without the bells and whistles and especially without the CC so that I could employ and afford them.
With luck, this trend at Lionel for some scale-sized but uncomplicated locos will produce others I can afford.
Just a thought, Weaver makes all of their locomotives in both conventional and TMCC, you might take a look at their line.
Money talks and the majority has spoken. Lionel issued several modern dash type diesels a few years ago... the same deal. Standard 0 locos with all the detail of the fully loaded engines, but stripped down electronically and conventional for $250 list and they sold out fast. I recall speaking to a dealer friend and the conversation came around to conventional versus TMCC. In reference to those stripped down locos, he said they went very fast and could sell more but was unable to get more. There's a conversation that happens seldom in reference to the very expensive high end.
Would the RMT BEEP sell as well if it was only available with the high end electronics? We all know the answer is a resounding NO. High end buyers are more likely to buy a basic loco to add the additional electronics more so than a conventional operator will pay more for the factory added electronics only to have to remove them. Not that RMT makes money from these upgrades, but they sell more units because those upgrades are available. And in all honesty, it is probably better on a quality/reliability level to have the electronics installed for you here stateside by one fo the frims that specializes in such things: you have service, you have parts available, and techs who can answer questions and know what they are doing.
Simple reality, the conventional market is bigger even though it's buyers and participants are not as loud. You don't read the threads about conventional locos being DOA, not working right, waiting 6 months for service and with no parts available the way you do about the high end locos. I dobut any conventional operator waits 6 months for parts and service the way others do. I think the only reason you don't see more of these conventional locos being offered is the prestige factor with the two big companies having developed their own digital systems and the investment capital they have invested in those systems.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
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