Trains.com

Anyone else find the Lionel Display at York weird ??????

7363 views
49 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 26, 2007 6:32 AM
Al,
My wife gives me a hard time (all in fun) about my train collecting.  After the York show she was going through everything and she looks over and says, 'You know when we have kids and they are old enough, I think you should let them choose 1 set from the catalog and buy it for them.'  I was stunned.  Originally the plan was to break up the collection amongst the kids (if they want it), now the plan is to buy them each a set of their choosing, so they will have 'their own first set' and then let them chose what they want from Dad's collection.  I think I like that idea!
  • Member since
    March 2006
  • 394 posts
Posted by njalb1 on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:59 PM
 lionroar88 wrote:
 njalb1 wrote:

 Santa Fe Kent wrote:
I want to know why someone would order a lavendar car?? That is weird....

I want to know why you need to know ! What nerve Angry [:(!]

  I ordered both the add on cars for my grandaughters girls train set !

Is that ok with YOU Oops [oops]

 



WOW!  That's one Mickey Mouse Train Collection!  Wink [;)] Laugh [(-D] Sorry njalb!  Couldn't resist.  Looks like your granddaughter has many years of fun ahead of her!  Hopefully she likes it and keeps it all!

 

 

Brent thanks for the nice reply !!!    Al

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:10 AM
 njalb1 wrote:

 Santa Fe Kent wrote:
I want to know why someone would order a lavendar car?? That is weird....

I want to know why you need to know ! What nerve Angry [:(!]

  I ordered both the add on cars for my grandaughters girls train set !

Is that ok with YOU Oops [oops]

 



WOW!  That's one Mickey Mouse Train Collection!  Wink [;)] Laugh [(-D] Sorry njalb!  Couldn't resist.  Looks like your granddaughter has many years of fun ahead of her!  Hopefully she likes it and keeps it all!
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 62 posts
Posted by Santa Fe Kent on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:02 AM

Well.... okay. As long as you didn't order it for yourself!

 

Didn't mean to get you hot, sorry! But it does strike me as odd that they actually make this stuff. Kudo's to anyone that can admit in public that they buy it! Yu Da Man!

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • 394 posts
Posted by njalb1 on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 8:39 PM

 Santa Fe Kent wrote:
I want to know why someone would order a lavendar car?? That is weird....

I want to know why you need to know ! What nerve Angry [:(!]

  I ordered both the add on cars for my grandaughters girls train set !

Is that ok with YOU Oops [oops]

 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 62 posts
Posted by Santa Fe Kent on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 8:03 PM
I want to know why someone would order a lavendar car?? That is weird....
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:42 AM
For my part, I demand to know when Lionel is going to resume production of that full-sized "backyard boat" set they made in the Sixties. I have waited far too long.
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Southington, CT
  • 1,326 posts
Posted by DMUinCT on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:12 AM

P.S., My Lionel "Christmas Celebration 2007" catalog was in my mail box when I got home from York.  

"O" gauge still has the "Polar Express" and a "North Pole Central" sets. Added this year is the Simi-Scale Mikado in red or green.

"G" gauge has again the "Holiday Traditions Express", but have added a "Polar Express" with a 2-8-2) and a General (4-4-0) powered "Snowman Express", both battery powered (9 volt) and have radio control.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Yukon OK
  • 385 posts
Posted by okiechoochoo on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:59 AM

 MartyE wrote:
Broadway Limited...LOL

 Broadway Limiteds Zephyr passengers are the best I have ever seen done in plastic.  Hardly something I would laugh at.  The truth is, much innovation is coming into HO and N scales from the former designers and such from O guage.  It only makes since, because HO and N are the largest two scales in popularity, bar none.

All Lionel all the time.

Okiechoochoo

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Upstate New York
  • 899 posts
Posted by nblum on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:25 AM

"The Hobby is O-Gauge trains, not the financial well being of Lionel LLC. If Lionel wants to abandon it's core business why cheer about it?"

Let's see, here's a two hundred page, give or take,  catalog this year with one battery powered train.  It is interesting that a tiny minority in the hobby interprets this as Lionel abandoning its core business Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]. 

 

Personally I think the hobby should revolve around what I want tooCaptain [4:-)].

Neil (not Besougloff or Young) :)
  • Member since
    March 2006
  • 394 posts
Posted by njalb1 on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 8:19 AM
 rthomps wrote:

 

 "First of all I looked for the Christmas catalog and was told that they had none?"

 

You didn't look too carefully or too far.  Lionel had the Christmas catalog on display on Thursday along with their other catalogs.

BTW, some nice items for around the tree in '07.

Laugh [(-D]

Yes they had ONE for all the thosands attending Banged Head [banghead]

I was there all day on Thursday and they said that they forgot to bring them ?????
  They took a tie wrap and put ONE on display for thousands to look at Oops [oops]Oops [oops]
  I checked all day and they NEVER got them to hand out ???

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: New England
  • 6,241 posts
Posted by Jumijo on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 8:12 AM

Lionel is making battery powered trains that run on plastic tracks - in G scale. From what I've seen, they are pretty nice versions of the General. I might buy one for the yard.

Jim 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • 382 posts
Posted by trigtrax on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 8:05 AM

They will make a huge splash in October when they show off the Legacy system.

From the Musical Annie. "The sun will come out tomorrow"

Nobody knows if Legacy will come out in October and nobody knows how big a "Splash" it will make. Rumor is Neil Young wants to do a concert at York for Legacy. Nobody knows if they will allow that.

I've heard a rumor Lionel is planning to make battery powered trains with plastic tracks. For what it's worth they might as well start making Espresso Machines. That would also be marketing to a different group. The Hobby is O-Gauge trains, not the financial well being of Lionel LLC. If Lionel wants to abandon it's core business why cheer about it?

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: New England
  • 6,241 posts
Posted by Jumijo on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:57 AM

I think you're right, Brent. They will make a huge splash in October when they show off the Legacy system. And what better place than York to show off a product like that? But on the whole, I think Lionel is now marketing to a different crowd than the typical York attendee. They seem to have come across a strong winning strategy by marketing to the seasonal and beginner train buyer.

Jim 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:51 AM
Jim,
The display Lionel had seemed to be very SUBDUED, almost like they were trying to hide and NOT be noticed.  When we heard that Legacy had been delayed till October, that kind of made me think that the October display MAY just have the appearance of a Detroit Auto Show unveiling... I have a feeling the October layout will be one that is capable of displaying how the Legacy control system is far superior to anything on the market today... could be a very fun show.
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: New England
  • 6,241 posts
Posted by Jumijo on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:43 AM
 rthomps wrote:
...

(BTW, look for EVERYONE from Lionel to be at York in October--but for a different reason.) ...

Legacy public unveiling.  

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: Near the ESPEE Tracks out on The Coast
  • 18 posts
Posted by rthomps on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 1:16 AM

 

 "First of all I looked for the Christmas catalog and was told that they had none?"

 

You didn't look too carefully or too far.  Lionel had the Christmas catalog on display on Thursday along with their other catalogs.

BTW, some nice items for around the tree in '07.

Laugh [(-D]

RT NTLB
  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: Near the ESPEE Tracks out on The Coast
  • 18 posts
Posted by rthomps on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 1:10 AM

To address the original question here:  In a succinct word...NO.  Cool [8D]

The Lionel exhibit was certainly not weird.  Blindfold [X-)]

My take is that Lionel's emphasis has, if you will, "moved beyond" the York-type show.  (Others have posted about this, e.g., Neil, and I very much agree....)  After the October '06 York, I posted on various forums (fora??) that Jerry C. had made a major mistake in not attending that York.  Well, he wasn't present again this York.  I didn't like it, but his absence fits carefully with Lionel's strategy.  (BTW, look for EVERYONE from Lionel to be at York in October--but for a different reason.)  MTH is spending beaucoup $$ on the York show preaching to the company's followers.  Seems as if Lionel has a different (and so far successful) strategy.

Did I write that I'm still unhappy that JC wasn't present???  Bow [bow]

RT NTLB
  • Member since
    March 2006
  • 394 posts
Posted by njalb1 on Monday, April 23, 2007 9:17 PM
I have been banned from York for my photographic memory !
  • Member since
    April 2006
  • 8,048 posts
Posted by fifedog on Monday, April 23, 2007 9:46 AM
Sign - Ditto [#ditto] Oustanding rebuttal, 88.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 23, 2007 9:34 AM
I have been to countless train shows over the last 10+ years and Friday was my first trip to the TCA show at York, and I can tell you it was like NOTHING and I mean NOTHING I have ever been to.

I got to walk the aisles and view more trains in one location than going to 2 or 3 years of train shows.  It was flat out HUGE.  I got to meet people from hobby shops that I have ordered from on-line and yes some of them even remembered my name - "Ah! Brent, how are you enjoying that x you purchased last year?" now that is IMPRESSIVE.  I got to handle items before I bought them, and I didn't have to email someone to get clearer pictures, I could SEE the paint chips, and the condition of the box and I didn't have to worry about someone with more money than brains who out bids me.

I'll still go to the local train shows, but I can also tell you that the cost of 1 year membership to the TCA and the cost of admitance to the show is worth it, to me.  I live 1 hour from York so it is cost effective for me to do this, if you live a good distance away and don't feel that spending the money on a hotel room for a night or two is in your budget, than so be it, but don't get upset because everyone else doesn't think the way you do.

The whole 'YORK' thing is getting to be as annoying as the MTH/Lionel debacle.

So, yes, please give it a rest.

The York show has its place in the hobby just as EBay does....
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Southington, CT
  • 1,326 posts
Posted by DMUinCT on Monday, April 23, 2007 9:02 AM

As for E-bay vs TCA York:

Over the years I have bid and bought on E-bay.  I much prefer to look over a product before I buy. This you can do at a train show.  Too often on E-bay it becomes an out of reason  bidding war, also people forget to add the shipping cost which is often excessive.

A train show gives that contact with the product, you can look it over, the bigger the show the more choice you have, TCA York is the biggest.  Not only that, but all who are selling are members of YOUR club who were screened when joining.  TCA is the biggest TOY Train group, it has spred worldwide, it has built a Toy Train Museum, and it built up a "KIds Club" to bring in youth.  Oh yes, it provides a market for the Lionel and MTH high end locomotives, sure they always come, and belong to TCA. 

I drive 350 miles each way twice a year and really enjoy the show.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Upstate New York
  • 899 posts
Posted by nblum on Monday, April 23, 2007 6:31 AM

I don't read anyone saying York is irrelevant or should die.  It's just that probably 90% of the people who buy toy trains never even go to York, so it makes no sense to argue that York is the most important marketing tool for new trains.  That would be the catalogs, magazines, public displays, hobby shops, etc., before one even thinks about York as a factor.

Lionel has chosen, for whatever reasons, not to spend money on their York exhibit.  Bankruptcy, distance from York,  and other marketing needs taking precedence are a pretty good explanation is my guess. 


The quality of the York exhibit affects short term sales exactly not at all.  Long term sales, who knows? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar ;).

Neil (not Besougloff or Young) :)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
  • 1,429 posts
Posted by MartyE on Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:22 PM
Broadway Limited...LOL

Trying to update my avatar since 2020 Laugh

MartyE and Kodi the Husky Dog! ( 3/31/90-9/28/04 ) www.MartyE.com My O Gauge Web Page and Home of Kodiak Junction!

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Kaukauna WI
  • 2,115 posts
Posted by 3railguy on Sunday, April 22, 2007 10:45 PM
I think the talent pool got fed up with the infighting and lawsuits and ditched the O gauge industry for HO and N scale forming companies like Precision Craft and Broadway limited offering engines with sounds and detail like HO and N scalers have never seen. It's a loss to the O gauge industry and a gain to the HO industry. Goes to prove artists prevail while fighters kill each other.
John Long Give me Magnetraction or give me Death.
  • Member since
    March 2006
  • 394 posts
Posted by njalb1 on Sunday, April 22, 2007 10:24 PM

Quote

" Don't be so quick to pull the plug on York, unless you want to bid on-line for the same old dead grandpa trains."

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • 382 posts
Posted by trigtrax on Sunday, April 22, 2007 9:38 PM

Has this thread taken the position that because the Lionel display was weak the whole York show is over. Sure there's e-bay or auctions you can buy trains at. Old musty dead grandpa trains, but are manufacturers going to invest in tooling for a spot on e-bay?

I have personal experience since I manufacture accessories. I made the Steel El for O-Gauge subway sets. Later I was approached by Standard Gauge Groups who wanted it too and I set up production for that. This last York I got a visit from both Marklin 1 Gauge and LGB/Aristocraft people and I'm preparing to make it for those folks next. None of this would have happened without the feedback from York.

Forget Lionel, MTH, and Atlas, just about every third table in the Orange Hall was somebody making something for the Hobby. You've got your choice of a wide selection of switches and tracks, landscape materials, electronics, cars, boats, planes, people and structures. None of this would have happened without some central location to demonstate the goods.

Don't be so quick to pull the plug on York, unless you want to bid on-line for the same old dead grandpa trains.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: The ROMAN Empire State
  • 2,047 posts
Posted by brianel027 on Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:10 PM

Neil, very well said.

NYC Fan, it has nothing to do with "giving it a rest" or starting our own 7 building show. From years of doing train shows and having been to YORK, I can tell you truthfully I've seen more newcomers enter the hobby at a small one or two building show where there were plenty of kid-friendly operating displays than I have ever seen at YORK. And given the logistics of the trip to YORK, the increased hotel costs during the show, having to be a member of the TCA and having to make a reservation - there is a distinct advantage to the local union hall show where everyone and anyone is welcome for the simple admission at the door. Why would we want 7 buidlings when we can accomplish growth and share the hobby with newcomers in just one?

Maybe the folks who need to give it a rest are the ones who approach YORK with the same attitude of a pilgrimage. Or the ones who insistantly want the train companies to cater to their every single whim, regardless of the expense to everyone else.

In the "give it a rest" deparmtnet, maybe the next time there's some "suggestion" on the other forum for the train companies to make such-and-such a loco and then 15 guys chime in saying they want one maybe they could all chip in and split the two or three million dollar development costs between just them. That way the rest of us don't have to pay higher prices for the trains we like, where the tooling and dies have long long long been paid for. Like it or not (and I have heard it direct) the traditonal and starter train sales basically make welfare payments to the development of the high end scale trains. Which is ironic because so many scale guys are completely intolerant, elitist and snobbish towards 027 "toy" trains.

That said, YORK is a great show and a fun opportunity if one is able to attend. And I've always said every train guy should have the chance to go at least once. But YORK is not the be-all and end-all of the train world. And given the state of the hobby, I agree that it will become of less significance in the near years to come. Even the TCA itself has had to address the issues of their aging membership and the declining interest. I've noticed more and more trains in estate sales from deceased train collectors because their surviving family members don't want the stuff.

And contributing even more greatly to the potential decline in importance of YORK is the internet and eBay. The train companies all have websites and take advantage of the train forums too. So plenty of buzz can be created at little expense or aggrivation. And whereas at one time is was almost essential to go to YORK to locate hard-to-find or collectible trains, eBay has changed that completely. And with eBay alone, YORK is now and will never be the same again.

With the changing times and changing market, I wouldn't be foolish enough today to even want to start a 7-building show, when just one will do.

brianel, Agent 027

"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Millersburg, Pa.
  • 7,607 posts
Posted by laz 57 on Sunday, April 22, 2007 6:57 PM
 NYC Fan wrote:

"Until York opens its doors to the public to draw them in and changes from boxed collectables to operating layouts and trains youth can touch, it will slowly, but ever so surely, get smaller and smaller and become of less importance to the manufactuer.  This may take a decade or so but it will eventually happen."

I wish you guys would give it a rest and just start your own seven building show somewhere!!

Well said NYC FAN.  Lets see what kind of show they would have?  This is the best train show period.

laz57

 

  There's a race of men that don't fit in, A race that can't stay still; Robert Service. TCA 03-55991

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month