Are the new Starter sets really "Starters"?

[trainbrain]

Just read the review in CTT about the Atlas GP15 set.  Nice train and track but no transformer with a large price for a starter.  Lionel and MTH do the same thing with their new track and trains in these starters but again it's high for a gamble.  What I mean is when someone wants to "try" a train set for their kids these starters require a large payout up front and to add on more track it's more $  for the expensive "nice track."  Recently in this forum, many Moms and Dads have inquired about trains for their kids but I'll bet the Starter prices " startle" them.  About 3 years ago I got a new Lionel starter set with an RS3, 3 cars, a 6' oval of 027 and a transformer for $100.  I built a layout for a friend whose lil guy "liked'  trains using this set.  Thankfully, he still likes it and they can add a lil more affordably  because the 027 isn't so expensive.  What about these high end starter sets?  Are they for starters or really a deal for those already up and running?  I know I wouldn't gamble on one for a starter because it's too much $ to risk if the kids break it or lose interest.  Doncha think, maybe?

[RR Redneck]

FasTrack is part of the problem. Lionel should have stuck with tubular track in it's lower end starter sets. The price of the amount of tubular track they comes with the starter sets is $16.68 before tax. The same amount of FasTrack is $46.68. That is a $30 dollar difference in itself. Then another part of the problem is the CW-80. This "transformer" is the worst product ever introduced to the toy train market. It is a $124.99 over priced unreliable piece of junk that I wouldn't even see fit to use as a paper weight. Prior to this "transformer", Lionel used a smaller (and much, much more reliable) transformer and controller that was only $49.99. That is a $75 difference so with these two products alone, we have seen a $105 dollar increase in total value.

MTH, however seems to try to offer too much in a starter set. The quality of thier starter sets is fanominal, it is just simply over priced.

[MartyE]

Hmmm 

Love the Fast Track as I think for a starter set it is aresome.  As far as the CW, I realize there are some issues but the 2 that came in my sets over the last few years have all operated flawlessly.  Maybe I'm just lucky. 

So maybe a more reliable transformer maybe needed, although I've seen on the boards where the CW issues have been addressed, the Fast Track was IMO a much needed improvement.   It makes for a great floor layout track system with some really nice add-on components.  I find myself buying more and more of it.

[Anonymous]

As I see it, there really are two levels of starter sets these days:

The true starter set--designed to appeal to someone who has little or no prior experience with toy or model trains--contains everything needed to get up and running, even if in a limited way, and is priced attractively to appeal to the mass consumer market.

The advanced starter set (for lack of a better term) is the  Atlas and higher-end Lionel kind of thing, which lacks a transformer or even tranck and transformer.

I've purchased both types of sets myself in the past, if one or the other contained items I especially liked.

A week or so ago, I bought an Aristo-Craft starter set for a colleague who is retiring.  She indicated some time ago that she wanted to build a railroad in her garden after she retired, so now she has something to get started with (I also gave her a copy of my garden railroading book).  That Aristo set has everything needed to get up and running--locomotive, a couple of cars, a circle of track, and the remote control items that Aristo now packages with their sets (a way to entice folks to later invest in their more sophisticated Train Engineer control system).  I also bought an additional box of straight track so she could at least have a decent oval to start with, and so she could use the set around her Christmas tree without just having it chase its own tail in a circle.

 The folks who are missing out in the true, basic starter set market are, in my opinion, Williams and RMT.  Both of those guys could make a killing if they offered attractively packaged (cube boxes, please) and attractively priced complete starter sets, complete with train, track, transformer, and a comprehensive and easy-to-follow book or DVD. 

[3railguy]

Atlas Trainman does not advertise them as "starter sets". They are adverised as "sets". They are  targeted at serious people who want something more serious than 027. They do not include a set pack because set packs are underpowered for someone getting serious. They usually get tossed for a bigger power pack to suit conditions. Plus there are people who are into buying multiple sets and they would be throwing money away if the sets included packs. Lionel and MTH make plenty of affordable 027 starter sets. It's likely they will be added to the Atlas Industrial Rail line too.

 Lionel has been doing this since the prewar years. Their premium sets did not include power packs.

[traindaddy1]

MartyE: You are not alone. I, too, have had and continue to have no problems with my CW-80.

[trainbrain]

You're right, the CTT article didn't call it a Starter set but it did talk about "getting started".  Difference?  They didn't say it but it sure could be implied. 

[Anonymous]

Regardless of what Atlas may call it, it's still being marketed as a starter set (complete with track, I believe). If you're targeting a set to a more "sophisticated" audience, you don't include the track because those "advanced" folks are already using the track of their choice, which may be anything ranging from tubular O27 to the multitude of other choices that are on the market today.  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. . . .

[Richard Bjorkman]

Lionel and MTH make plenty of affordable 027 starter sets. It's likely they will be added to the Atlas Industrial Rail line too.

At October York, Atlas indicated that they expect to have all the pieces in place to offer Industrial Rail starter sets in fall 2007. In addition to freight cars, they will offer a 4-4-2 Atlantic, a Northeast-style caboose, track with roadbed (new track system that can mate with existing Atlas track and will have a transitional section to mate with Fastrack), and a no-nonsense-looking 80-watt transformer. This should help fill the void left by the disappearance of K-Line.

 

Richard Bjorkman 

[trainbrain]

But is it AFFORDABLE for the NEW person who is TRYING the hobby and economical to add on?  This new track ain't cheap!!

[Anonymous]

Sounds like those forthcoming Atlas starter sets might do well, IF they are priced attractively. I wouldn't expect them to give the stuff away, but if they're thinking $300 plus, it will probably be a hard sell.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Lionel only has one low cost startet set.  It is the Thomas set (at about $130).  Everything else gets expensive in a hurry.  I think RMT should put out a startet set.

 Both Lionel and MTH seem to feel that folks will pay $200 - $350 for a starter set.  

 

Jim H 

[RR Redneck]

It makes me wonder if thier heads are up the hershy highway for the warmth.

[palallin]

Since I have no use for the things, I don't know:  can somebody add up the cost of a "starter" Play Station or Sega (or whatever) video game set?  That is:  how much to get the hardware necessary for basic games and a reasonable number of games to play.  Folks talk about the "cheap" video game trainset killers, but, judging from the hoopla over the latest round of introductions to the market, I could get a REALLY good Lionel set for less than the PS3.  I just don't know how those hoopla price refelct reality in that market.

[Joe Hohmann]

FasTrack is part of the problem. Lionel should have stuck with tubular track in it's lower end starter sets. The price of the amount of tubular track they comes with the starter sets is $16.68 before tax. The same amount of FasTrack is $46.68. That is a $30 dollar difference in itself. Then another part of the problem is the CW-80. This "transformer" is the worst product ever introduced to the toy train market. It is a $124.99 over priced unreliable piece of junk that I wouldn't even see fit to use as a paper weight.

Ah, another "expert" opinion lacking hands-on experiance or research. You can get a 12-section loop of FasTrack at shows for $24., or at my train store for $30.. I own 4 CW80's, and have had no problems. I prefer them to my "like new" KW. Being a MTH fan is fine...just don't make dumb remarks about the "other guy". Joe