That is probably the 2023 "anniversary ALCO": 1950 was Lionel's 50th anniversary.
It sounds like the track and perhaps the locomotive's wheels need cleaning. Clean the track with Scotch Brite. Clean the wheel treads with whatever will scrape off the black stuff that might be caked on them. You will probably also need to replace the grease in the worm gear between the motor and the truck and on the spur gears on the side of the truck, and oil the axle bearings.
Bob Nelson
Yes. Take a single screw out of the bottom of the power truck to separate the motor and truck. Clean out the old grease with Q-tips, screwdriver, paper towels--whatever works. It doesn't have to be antiseptic before you put new grease in. Here is the service information for that locomotive: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2023.htm
It's up to you whether you want to clean it yourself. It's not particularly tricky to do. Unless the wiring is clearly deteriorated, there is no need to rewire.
If you can't find any numbers or letters on the transformer, look through these http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd2g.htm and see if you can find it. Or describe it in a little more detail: What size, how many terminals, labels on the terminals, shape of "knobs", etc. It sounds like you might have wired to the wrong transformer terminals and put a constant accessory voltage on the track.
1144 Multivolt Transformer
I will have to check when i get home, if not i will try that. Not to go backwards but can i spray engine degreaser in the truck to clean out the old grease? What kind of grease should i replace it with and how much? Sorry for all the questions, i am new and i ma getting very interested in it.
jgregor,
A clean and properly lubed 1950 Alco #2023 will ordinarily go like a jack-rabbit. May I respectfully suggest starting with the U and B terminals rather than U and A.
The reason is that U-B gives you a throttle range of 6 - 16 volts (moderate) whereas U-A gives a range of 10 - 20 volts. Try U-B first and move up to U-A if and when you need the extra juice -- and are willing to forgo slow-speed operations.
It doesn't really matter at this stage, but I believe Lionel's convention for a single-throttle transformer like the 1144 would suggest connecting the U post to the center rail and the B post to one of the outside rails.
Hope this reaches you before your wonderful new locomotive goes sailing off your workbench....
Incidentally, I doubt that your transformer is "bad." It sounds as if you connected the track to one of the fixed voltage combinations (A-B = 6 volts fixed) which would explain both the snail's-pace and total lack of throttle control.
Check the site at Olsen's (link posted above) and DO follow the advice of replacing the cord if it shows any signs of cracking or crumbling.
And please post your progress.
Don't worry about the questions, there are others who are starting out and may gleen some information for themselves. I would not just spray degreeser into the truck, you can't be carefull about where it goes and you want to avoid any fluid getting onto the brushes and armature. If you follow the instrucions on Olsen's site or if you purchase a Greenberg's guide to postwar train repair, you should be able to do a fairly good job of servicing your engine. One thing to be sure to check, many older transformers have cracked power cords, check and if so, either replace the cord, or the transformer. You can get a #1033 postwar transformer off Ebay for about $15.00. This is a good unit and may be worth it if yours is bad.
Welcome to this forum and please come back, ask the questions and update us with your progress.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
jgregor: There's a place where there may be damage: the horn required a battery to operate and these were often left in when the loco was stored and then leaked.
There is also a lever on the lcomotive that turns the reversing unit (called an Eunit) on and off. Check out the olsens site for instructions.
--David
Ok, so i checked and i did have the wires on wrong. I cleaned the truck and greased it plus i lubed everything the instruction book showed to oil. The train ran a lot better but when i hooked up some cars it didn't want to pull them. I had 6 cars plus the dummy engine and it was all the train could do to pull it. I cleaned the armature and the track but i don't know what else to do. Any suggestions or do you think i would be better off taking it to someone?
The power truck is just the truck with the motor on it. It is possible to modify the dummy unit by putting a power truck into it so that both units are pulling.
Do you understand the operation of the e-unit--the reversing unit? Each time you turn on the track voltage, the locomotive should do something different. It should run forward, then stand still with the lights on, then run backward, then stand still with the lights on, then forward, and so on. Could it simply be standing still in the neutral position when you "have to power it up all the way then back down and then back up"?
I know once you power it down it stops and then the next time it changes direction, but it makes noise when it is standing still like it is straining and can't move. I haven't meesed with it a lot because i am afraid i am going to burn up the armiture. Would i have to do any mods to the dummy engine to put a power truck on it. I would like to do a long train with elevation changes but it doesn't look possible with what i have now.
The noise is unfortunately normal for the e-unit. Some are noisier than others. You shouldn't need to turn it all the way up just to step through neutral.
To do the power-truck transplant, first you need a donor, that is, a truck from a powered unit of the same general type as your 2023. You can see a list of Alcos here: http://www.postwarlionel.com/diesel.html . But watch out--most of these (generally those in the 200's) have an inferior later type of motor; you want one that looks like the one in your 2023.
You will also need to replace the crossbar that the motor swivels on, which is different for powered and dummy trucks. Then you will need to wire the motors together. The simplest way is to wire the new motor in parallel with the old one, which requires three wires between the units. The new truck will also have an electromagnetic coupler, which you may want to wire to the other unit, making 4 wires. The motors can also be wired in series, to get better slower-speed operation; but that is more complicated. I tie-wrapped the wires between units to the coupler drawbars, effectively locking the units together, since I always run them as a set and prefer not to mess with connectors unnecessarily.
thanks for the info for making a power truck, i may look into that. When you are first starting the train should you have to tunr the speed all the way up to get it to move? In order to get mine to start i have to power it all the way up, after it gets going i can power it down to a slower speed.
For the locomotive by itself, no. It should move at a pretty low voltage. But what you describe might be reasonable for a heavy train that is close to the locomotive's capability. Have you tried oiling the wheels of the cars? Just a drop where the wheel turns on the axle is all that is needed. Spin the wheel to verify that you got the oil where it belongs.
You are in good hands with Bob Nelson (lionelsoni). That said, I respectfully suggest that is is premature to consider adding a second motor. I can't tell from here where your problem is. It could be lack of lube on the ball-bearing races, the wheels on the other cars of your consist, the number and weight of the consist, the size (power) of the transformer, the number of lamps in the circuit --if any_ and very possibly dirty drum and/or weak fingers on the E-unit, etc, etc. There are just too many variables in a 57 year old trainset.
My advice is to take (or send if that's the only way) both the locomotive and the transformer to an authorized Lionel service station for a complete dignosis and possible rehab.
jgregor and lionelsoni,
OK guys, have your fun -- as long as it is fun. Troubleshooting and repairing it would be fun for me, even at my advanced age, because I have some experience, but I remain confused as to what you are working with. For example, is the transformer an 1144 or not? If it is, the way I read "the book" it would be a 75 watt (nominal) device putting out about 70% of that, say 52.5 watts maximum. If it's a 1033 or one of that ilk, it is rated at 90 watts for about 63 watts output, both with a maximum no-load voltage of about 16 from the U-A taps. (Never mind all that root-mean-square smoke, Bob: apples to apples should do just fine here.) In any event, unless the faceplate is missing or terribly worn/tarnished, it ought to be a simple matter to read the transformer type number and get that much settled at least.
And what about all the sparking that was mentioned early on? Has all the cleaning and lubricating eliminated or at least reduced it?
Also, there is quite a difference between the normal case of a locomotive sitting at neutral, with its E-unit buzzing cheerfully, and the troublesome case where the pawl hasn't advanced the drum quite all the way and the engine is actually "in gear," so to speak, and is "straining" (jgregor's term) trying to move. I have seen both.
I have three such locomotives, and both a "90 watt" and a "75 watt" (both nominal) transformer. I would be willing to run some benchmark performance tests, but only if requested. What I would prefer to do, however, is to just sit here and watch you guys work your way through this own your own. I learn more by listening than by writing. I hope to follow this thread with interest. Do carry on.
By the way: I would suspect the working load (number, weight and rolling characteristics), transformer power or lack of, E-unit, and maybe a subtle short somewhere -- perhaps in the track. Lots of other possibilities too, but the easiest diagnostic procedure might be to do some logical substitutions....
Second by the way: jgregor, are you really sitting on the Prime Meridian as it suggests in your personal information? If so, are you using 50 hertz house current by any chance?
The problem with the transformer is my memory and remembering to write down what it is. I know it says 90 watts on the face plate but that is all i remember. I will try to remember to write it down so i can tell you guys once and for all what i am working with.
The problem with the sparking went away when i cleaned the track off.
I'm not sure enough about what gear the train was in to say that it was for sure straining. I just figured if it was buzzing it was trying to move. I'm very paranoid that i am going to burn up the armiture if it is straining so i have not let it run for very long at a time. Are you thinking maybe there is something not operating correctly with the E-Unit? Is there somethign there i can clean or lube up to make it work smoother?
I have a question about the whistle. I put a D cell in the engine but the whistle doesn't work. Is this a servicable part or does it most likely need replaced?
Well, he said it looked like an 1144, I think from comparing it to the Olsen's pictures. But the 1044 and the 1144 look pretty much the same; and, although the Lionel text says that the 1144 is a 75-watt transformer, the nameplate in the 1144 drawings clearly says 90. I don't have any of either to check the nameplates.
In any case, as far as transformer size is concerned, it doesn't matter how big the layout is but rather how many and what kind of trains you are running. If you stick to the one 2023 and can run it on a small layout, you can run it on a large one with the same transformer. You do have to avoid voltage drops in the track on a large layout, either by having very good connections between track sections or by running heavy wire to the far ends of the layout. But more transformer power capability will not help.
Accessories can be powered from the transformer terminals other than U. There are several fixed voltages available according to which terminals you use; and they should be marked on the transformer. Accessories like signals and crossing gates that you want to activate from the track when the train goes by are a little more complicated to hook up but can be powered from the same transformer. Of course, the more accessories you connect to the transformer, the less power there is left over to run the train; but your transformer can probably handle a couple in addition to the 2023.
If the motor runs every other time you turn the voltage up, the e-unit is doing its job and the buzzing is harmless. Working on an e-unit is tricky; so, if it is working, I would leave it alone, buzzing or not.
The horn operates through a relay contact. With the D cell in place, push the contact closed. If it doesn't blow, the problem is with the horn. If it does, the problem is probably with the relay or with the transformer. Let us know what happens.
I'm going to try oiling the wheels for the rest of the cars to see if that helps. The more i think about it i think that is the problem. If the engine is running around by itself it goes almost fast enough to derail itself in the turns. I would think if it goes that fast it should have the power to pull the cars if they are well oiled.
In the instruction book for the engine it sadi you could test the whistle by turning the car over, i tried that and it didn't work. Now, when i was running it around the track and tried to blow the whistle the train stopped. I'm going to mess with the relay a little more before i replace it.
How much grease should i put in the truck? Should i pack it full or just put a little on the gear?
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