O gauge R/C conversion (photos & description)

[FJ and G]

Yesterday, I successfully converted my first locomotive to a new type of "command control" system used by millions of Americans, but almost nonexistant among toy train operators: remote control or R/C, not command control like DCS, TMCC or DCC which depends on rails for power or signal but R/C like that used for model boats, airplanes and racing cars everywhere.

I will show some photos and diagrams, try to explain the process in simple English, and give what I think are the pros and cons of doing this procedure. First, I want to make it clear that I'm an electronic klutz, so if I can do the
conversion, anyone can. Without the help of Austin, Texas resident Jim Duda, none of this would have been possible. We spent time emailing and on the phone, as he walked me through the procedures step by step. Thanks, Jim.

Now for the pros and cons. Keep in mind that I made the conversion less than a day ago so the information I'm providing will be incomplete, as there are many more tests to run and it is likely I will be experimenting with new types of R/C gear in the future, so I plan to use this thread to give updates (which might occasionally be few and far between, as I'm also building my outdoor layout simultaneously).

Here are some factors to consider when deciding if R/C is right for U:

If you have a layout already wired and are happy, this procedure is probably not for you; especially if you already are using some type of command and control system.

R/C conversion isn't free, but neither is it expensive. The 3 main components: 1. onboard battery pak with charger; 2. transmitter/receiver; and 3. electronic speed controller or ESC; cost, all together, about $100. It is possible with just this gear alone, to power all of your trains, including even the Beep and Plymouth Switcher and 0-4-0, if a trailing battery car is used (converted boxcar, gondola, etc).

TIme of installation is also a factor. Once U know how to do the procedure, however, it should take less than an hour per locomotive; perhaps even 15 minutes.

Warranty invalidation might be a showstopper for many. Althought the procedure is safe, some manufacturers might not honor your warrenty.

The R/C conversion doesn't necessarily mean that you can't go back to conventional or your own command control system.

All of the rewiring can be done with wire connectors or wire locks so that you can simply reconnect. Also, the rollers can easily be put back on under the trucks.

The batteries you'll be using can easily be recharged. I ran the train, an SD-45 Williams, on the test track for hours, with no apparent loss of battery juice.

Here are some of the benefits I've found to using R/C:

U can run your trains on 2- and 3-rail track. If you look at one of the photos, you can see that my test oval includes 3-rail and 2-rail track modified from 3-rail. The train doesn't know the difference. And outside (last photo) U can see the train happily cruising along on 2-rail code 148 rails. Now, let me be clear that I didn't go to R/C to get rid of the center rail. There are other reasons which I will explain, to include saving money on rails, since I can use the center rail to extend my outdoor garden railroad. However, for those who'd like to go to 2 rails but don't want to buy all new 2-rail equipment, the R/C conversion will allow U to make the transition seamlessly without spending money for new gear.

Derailments: On my test track, I put a long string of cars and had a "stringlining" type of derailment. Normally, I hear the click of the transformer as it shuts off and perhaps some sparks on the rails. Not with R/C! I could simply put the loco back on the track and continue on without resetting the power pak. If you have a bit of mischievous "Gomez" in you, you could even stage an accident, and have the locomotive continue down the embankment or through the cornfield, as the wheels will keep moving the beast even after it leaves the rails!

Dirty track is no longer a concern since R/C is not dependent on track power. For me, this was the clincher to going R/C, as I'm setting up an outdoor layout. Even G scalers must continually clean their track if they are using track power. I'm just too lazy. I'd rather run trains instead! That said, it is still a good idea in O gauge to ensure there's no debris that could be picked up by the gears and into the motor, as the gears are sitting low and exposed. In other words, more precautions than G-gauge trains definitely must be taken when running outdoors (if that is what you intend to do).

Range: this is unbelievable. Freaky, actually. The supplied antenna wire is still tightly wound in a coil. I never once unwound it. Using my transmitter, I signalled commands to the train from all over the house, in the backyard to the house and down the street a ways. The signal penetrated the house walls at great distances and I successfully was able to make the train do its reverse, forward and neutral movements!! Heck, I can now be upstairs in my bedroom, looking out the window, controlling my trains. Perhaps plowing snow!

And, if the neighbor's model airplane or car violates my air space, I can intercept that too!

Portability. U now can take your trains camping or on a picnic, set up the track anywhere U want and run them without plugging them in. The sense of freedom is really empowering. It was awesome when I first ran the trains without any juice to the rails. It seemed like the real deal!

All of that messy track wiring is now a thing of the past. No transformers. No problems with power losses thru the turnouts, etc etc. Heck, you even can run your trains on the 2-rail coal unloader track supplied for toy trains.

Having given the pros and cons, I have to say I've got a lot to learn yet. I made the train go forward, reverse, and neutral, but as darkness came, I would have liked the lights to come on. I expect that this will be fairly easy to do, as there is another port on the reciever that will allow additional wiring for other functions, such as the light.

There is, btw, tons of room inside the WIlliams SD45 to install ALL of the gear so I don't need a trailing battery car.

I'm currently undecided as to what I want to do with that. Also, if I want to do lashups, I will need to study up on that some. Obviously, it is easy to do with dummy locos. So, I'm just starting out here and there's much left to do.

Now, a bit about installation:

Actually, I'm getting pretty tired from typing so will explain in greater detail sometime this week, using the accompanying photos and diagram. But basically, there's the transmitter, which looks like a boom box in the photo and is used to control model planes. I'm just using the left control, which snaps back to neutral (spring loaded). If I don't want to hold the box, I can set the trim tab and the locomotive will stay at constant speed. THis works in forward as well as reverse.

The receiver contains the antenna and plugin device for the battery pak. The battery pak itself connects to the ESC (electronic speed control) unit, which actually is used for model boats (so I'm combining model boat and plane controls).

The electronic speed control has 2 wires coming out which run to the blue and yellow wires (see diagram) that connect the tops of the 2 motors in the Williams unit. You will probably want to disconnect all other wires. So, the tether between the battery car and locomotive consists of just 2 wires. I put a fast blow 10 amp fuse inline on one of those wire just to be safe.

Well, I'm getting back to running trains! I'll provide in-depth details on the conversion later, if anyone is interested.

[pbjwilson]

Very cool Dave. I like the range factor, that you can control from just about anywhere. What about the elements. Can you run in the rain? I was playing with my G gauge outside yesterday in the cold. Cleaning the track was a real pain. And now with the track being outside for 6-7 years the railjoiners are my main problem. I like what you are doing. Could be the "new wave" in O gauge.

My son and I yesterday - sunny but COLD.

[tmcc man]

Dave, nice job. If I sent you an engine, could you wire it like that for me?

[Jim Duda]

Bravo Big Dave!

Here's what I'm curious about:
1. Is it fast enough with the 7.2 Volt battery pack?
2. How is the slowest speed performance?
3. Is it a smooth transition from "Off" (neutral) to the first speed increment in forward and reverse?

Paul - if he can seal the locomotive against water and the car that houses the receiver, he could run in the rain...water / snow / bird chit, etc. on the tracks is a non-issue as in full size trains.

Powering up the headlight might be as simple as wiring it to the motor...you could also dedicate a small battery pack through a switch which would give you constant brightness and wouldn't be affected if the loco was running or not.

Lashups could be as simple as bringing the motor leads out to a connector outside the shell and simply connecting the locos together. The speed controller is capable of handling 30 amps @ 7.2 VDC continuous and that is LOTS of can motors...whether the wheels turn at the same speed in all your locos would be the only concern.

Thanks for being brave enough to try this...it'll be an interesting thread to follow!

[FJ and G]

Thanks, Paul,

In a misty rain it could be done (drizzle), but not rain, rain, same same for G scale stuff.

Thanks for compliment. The R/C stuff is so inexpensive because of the nature of the mass production that takes place as millions of folks run their stuff, so why not trains!

TMCC,

Thanks. I'll be up visiting my sisters in the York, Lancaster area around 8 April. I may be able to swing your way. Email me and I can wire it for you b/c you should be able to get all the components by then. You also need 8 AA batteries for the transmitter. I recommend rechargeables. We can discuss in great length.

Jim,

1. No. I would like to try the 14 V battery pak. The locomotive can haul a line of cars, but when it gets on the (admittedly) curvy test track, it tends to peter out (but keeps going, just gets ornary. My outside track, unlike the 042 test track, has 12 foot diameter curves!

In other words, more juice would be better. I may trade this 7.2V pak back in at Radio Shack for a larger voltage pak. Also, I'd like to buy better wire connectors that don't take any effort to disconnect.

2. Slowest speed is about 5 smph, about the same as U get if you wire in series. That is completely satisfactory. Interestingly, the max speed in forward is about twice that of reverse. I can't account for that.

3. The transition is really smooth! As for sounds, there is the neat whine of the motors that almost sounds like dynamics kicking in in the 1:1

I'm sure I'll have much more info as time passes, but just 1 day has passed!

Thanks, Jim, we'll be in touch, I'm sure.

[FJ and G]

Oh, one more thing... someone asks, why not just use G?

There are 2 major reasons I chose O over G for outdoors.

1. Already have the trains

2. I can get more train per square foot (larger empire). O is plenty big for me!

Also, someone else asked me about the components. Here in brief:

1. Receiver/x-mitter- Ranger II N 2Ch am radio control system, made by HiTec

2. ESC is ProBoat waterproof ESC w/Reverse: by Riptide

3. power is Radio Shacks's R/C pack 7.2V power index 2000, 2000 mAh, Ni-Cd rechargeable battery pak, model 23-330.

#1 and 2 don't have website for b/c it's at work. Bought both from 2 separate sources.

Additionally, there's the 10 Amp fast blow fuse and holder from the metal drawers at radio shack. They also have wire connectors but I'm replacing those with something easier to connect and disconnect.

#1, #2, and #3 all fit nicely together.

Additionally, 8 batteries are needed (AA) to power the transmitter.

In the 3rd to the last photo, all of those components came with the x-mitter/receiver bundle. NONE of these are needed. I just showed them so you would know U don't need them. However, I did use them to test the transmitter/receiver to ensure it was functioning properly.

Instead, the ESC is connected with a 3-connector device into the throttle (channel 2) of the receiver. It is CRITICAL to get the proper orientation of wires. Fortunately, the receiver allows the ESC connector to only fit one way. Don't force it in the other way!

I'd be glad to answer further questions.

BTW, the 7.2V is adequate but I'm going to go up to 14 volts to get more power to the 2 loco motors.

[Dr. John]

Dave -

Great work! You've certainly opened up a new avenue of train control for O gauge, whather indoors or outdoors.

I just don't know if I could give up the third rail to go with that unrealistic two rail track!

[Jim Duda]

The Proboat Riptide ESC is the reason you have more speed forward than reverse since most R/C cars/trucks/boats favor more forward speed than reverse. 14.4 volts will be the maximum your ESC can handle...if you need more voltage the price of the ESC will increase.

You can just get another battery pack and connect them in series...but you'll have to charge them singly as you do now.

[cnw1995]

This is a dream-come-true. Well done, Dave. I'm going to print this out to show to the boys at the R/C hobby shop who told me this couldn't be done.

[FJ and G]

Thanks for the tip, Jim.

Doug,

Thanks, hopefully someone might be able to use this information. Just gives you more options with your toy trains and opens doors.

Dr. John,

I know whatchya mean. The tracks sort of look naked. And, one of my favorite effects were the blue sparks shooting off the rails, esp. at night. It's a compromise, for sure! I'll keep my 3 rails track at work tho. Need to keep the DCS for something!

[Jim Duda]

I forgot about the Receiver battery pack you're not using - it will be perfect for your lights! It even has a switch to turn your lights On - Off. Try it with the bulbs already installed - it may be bright enough as is...if not, get some 6 volt rated bulbs since you have 4.8 volts available.

Remember to isolate your bulbs from the rest of the circuit to prevent damage to the Williams boards...

[FJ and G]

Jim, thanks for the additonal info.

Forgot to mention but as I was fixing myself a drink and fetching a bone for the hound, the battery pak and speed controller flew off the flat car (use a gondola!).

Well, the trooper SD-45 was pulling it along, dragging it over the Berber carpet. What a soldier!

( Who says model railroading is boring. I could make this a full-time hobby! Too bad I have to work to support my hobby!)

[Jim Duda]

HA! You can put a new twist to the old "Helicopter Car"...have one of your R/C buddies that flies those mini electric helos mount his bird on one of your flats. He'll control it with his own transmitter so he can take off an land on your flat...betcha' that would turn some heads!!!

The possibilities, as they say, are endless...

[csxt30]

Dave : a great accomplishment there !! With a few investors, you may become the President of a very large Corporation ! This could revolutinize the hobby !!
Looks like a really lot of fun ! I've flown a few of R/C helis, but landing on a moving flat car is probably beyond my capabilities !! [:D][:D] Now take offs would be ok ! A good idea by Mr. Duda, I might say !! [:D] How about the Missle
& Exploding boxcar ? ! You could blow up a boxcar sitting in a siding somewhere ! The kids would really like that, too !
Thanks,

[lyle_styles]

Now this is amazing. The applications of R/C is endless.

Dave, give yourself an atta boy for taking the time to post all this information for the rest of us to enjoy and learn from.

I recently was looking over some feedback on E-Bay and one had really caught my attention. It was from a seller who posted feedback that went something like this, "Model train people are the nicest people around"

Not sure if I could find it again but thought it was so relevant to what I have seen here in the forum from so many people.

I too will be keeping an eye on this post.

Thanks Dave,
Lyle R Ehlers

[tmcc man]

Dave, a good idea for us to meet would probably be at the East Coast Hobby Show, in Ft. Washington, right near my house. I am checking the dates right now, because I might be there with the Garden RR club.

[wrmcclellan]

Dave,

Nice accomplishment! Certainly opens a few doors for variety!

Keep it up!
Roy

[tmcc man]

Good news Dave,
I will be there. It is from April 7th to April 9th. Directions to come. I will try to remember to give them to you.

[FJ and G]

OK, TMCC, I'll be there. I'm still experimenting with perhaps some slightly higher voltage lock-nut connectors etc, and when I get the optimal parts list together, I'll email you and you can purchase them and have them ready. The only soldering I did, btw, was on the fuse. The rest are connectors. The only tools I used were tiny screwdrivers to remove the shell of the loco and the rollers. The black wire connecting the bottom of the motors appears to be some sort of a ground. It is connected with a nut to a metal ring. I used a tiny wrachet set to remove the nut, but had to hold the other side with needle-nose pliers. I could bring along my tools. Oh, and wire strippers and crimper if going that route.

Never been to a garden meet so REALLY looking forward. Was actually working on the garden and doing new roadbed today as the weather warmed up.

[Boyd]

Another way this could be done is to run constant voltage to the track,, then run the power through the RC system (as long as it is DC) then to the engines motor/motors.

[darianj]

Looks like a great project. Far beyond my skill level at this time. Thanks for sharing.

[FJ and G]

Progress continues. Used the circuitry that Jim D describes above for light bulbs and it works really fine.

Also, operations were much smoother today with the one battery pak. I think it was eratic the other day b/c of the jumble of wires interfering with the rotation of the motors. I need to bundle up the wires now and tidy up!

Tested the loco and short train on curved grade of about 3%. Stopped and started the train several times on the ruling slope. No problems at all pulling. Instead of upping the voltage, I may now just use the one pack unless circumstances dictate otherwise (perhaps plowing heavy snow or something).

BTW, I'm still using the same charged battery pack and haven't yet had to recharge. Total running time now is around 3.5 hours. I'm beginning to wonder when I'll need to do a recharge!

I likely won't do too much testing in next several weeks as I've ordered some additonal connectors and will be in Austin Texas this week and next. So probably won't be adding much if anything to this post for a while.

Needless to say, the beta test went better than my wildest imagination.

[Jim Duda]

If you want the lamps powered by your radio battery pack to be brighter, just put AA alkalines in the holder since they will give you a full 6 Volts (4 X 1.5V). The NiMh you have in there now are outputting about 4.8 volts (4 X 1.2V).

When the original power battery runs down, you have a 2nd battery to continue operations - probably 8 - 12 hours total...you can drink a lot of beers in that time...(wink)

[FJ and G]

Today I'm testing for loading on one 7.2 V battery pak. Several heavy die-cast cars, 3 gondolas filled with steel bars

(one of which derailed due to bad trackwork--track pins missing). Using non-weighted cars, would be about a 16-car train

(now 8-car).

Still testing with Williams SD-45 loco; same battery, ESC hookup as previously described.

THe patio grade is approximately 4%, using mix of 042, 054, 072 curves--one or two pieces is extremely pitted with rust.

RESULTS: 7.2 is more than adequate power.

Operationally, the train seems to run better on the upgrade. On the downgrade, I found a few spots where the loco jerked

somewhat so I lowered my speed some. Over time, it seemed to smooth out a bit but operations going downhill are not as

smooth as uphill.

I'll be conducting more tests, hooking up the single battery pak with another locomotive. Actually, lots more testing but

I have a pickup truck full of mulch and have some garden and fencing work to do today and tomorrow so may have to report

back later.

Jim Duda has assisted greatly with this project and just wanted to thank him again.

BTW, it is below freezing outside so BB the beagle and I are indoors, operating the trains remotely as we look thru the

sliding glass door. I've got some big band music playing so we're chillin.

Some points of interests:

--do not place sections of track under your track like I did, b/c if you're using track power, it'll short your track :-)

--with wind gusts today at perhaps 20-25 mph, I've seen G gauge trains flip over because they present more "sail"

surface. The advantage with O scale outdoors is that it is harder to blow them over!

--note: I forgot to edit a couple of photos. When you get to those, turn your computer monitor 90 degrees to view.

--still haven't charged the original battery; lost track of # hours it's running

Cheers.

[FJ and G]

Ok, the garden had to wait...more experiments and success!

Successfully wired my Williams U-boat up to the SD-45 and got both locos (4 motors, 2 each), going simultaneously with just one 7.2 V battery!

It passed the torture course. About the only difference I found was that it ran slightly slower but had all the pulling power needed and seemed to be a bit smoother with 4 motors going at once.

Interestingly, before I hooked both up, I reversed wires on the one loco and it still operated both ways. However, I didn't try any experiments with the dual-powered lashup, instead, continuing the parallel wiring of yellow to yellow, blue to blue. If it were wired backwards, I don't know what would happen and don't know enough about electricity to want to find out.

Eventually, I'll wire 3 locos up.

But for now, it's back to gardening and BB the beagle needs walking.

Eventually, I'll publish more experiments here including the use of infrared and converting DCS to R/C-DCS, but I'm all experimented out for a while and it may be some time before I add to this.

Incidentally, the wiring for both Williams locos is identical to the diagram at the beginning of this post.

[choochin3]

Speaking of running trains outdoors.
Do any of youse guys know if MTH Realtrax will hold up outside.
I am going to screw this track around the outside perimeter of my deck.

Thanks,
Carl T.

[FJ and G]

Carl,

I've had a stick of Realtrax outside now for about 8 months and it's holding up really well. The rails are pretty clean and the plastic roadbed would probably take years if not decades to become brittle; still, I'd just go over the roadbed with some paint just for added protection.

If I were using realtrax outside, I'd likely have gone with electric thru the rails; but my thinner profile rails are a bit harder to clean.

My only concern would be expansion/contraction. I'm not sure how or if Realtrax expands or contracts but I'm guessing it wouldn't be a problem.

[FJ and G]

Here's complete parts list and instructions:


1. R/C car battery pack and charger 7.2 V Ni-Cd 2000mAH
From Radio Shack.
$20

Or, you could go to an R/C hobby shop and get a 7.2V NiMh 38000, as it'll last even longer (though I've been on my single battery for hours now.

2. ProBoat Waterproof ESC (Electronic Speed Control with Reverse
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB2314
$40

3. Ranger II HiTec Radio transmitter/receiver (order any channel)
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXARP0**&P=0
$40

Total = $100

Plus, you'll need connectors and you might want a 10Amp fast blow fuse.

Instructions:

1. Prepare some test track

2. Open loco shell and remove rollers

3. If you're not familiar with electronics, cut all wires from the motors except the 2 power wires (the blue and yellow shown in the diagram at the top of this post).

4. Wire your loco so that the yellow wire connects both motors and a tether for the battery car (if you choose to use a battery car). Do the same for the blue wire. That is all the wiring you'll be doing inside the loco, the rest of the wiring will take place in your battery car.

5. After charging your Radio Shack (or other) battery, connect it to the ESC plug (only one plug will work with it).

6. Connect the ESC 3-prong black plug into channel 2 of the Hi-Tech reciever (small red box). The plug fits only one way so don't try to force it the wrong way in! That is the only plug you'll be using in the receiver. No need to uncoil the antenna that is attached to the receiver.

7. The ESC's remaining 2 wires will connect to the yellow and blue wires that go to your motors, which I already mentioned. You can wire the fuse into one of the wires if you so choose. I found that the train still operates if the wires from the ESC to the motors are flipped or flopped.

8. Turn on the main power switch on your handheld transmitter (center slide button). Then turn on the switch on the ESC. (when you are done, always turn off the ESC switch, then the transmitter; the reason for this procedure is so that no extraneous signals are picked up by the locomotive from a remote source)

9. To operate the train, use the toggle switch on the left side. It is spring loaded so if you let go of it, the train goes into neutral. If you push up, the train goes forward (or reverse if you wired the ESC to motors backwards); and if you toggle down, the train goes the other way.

The little button beside it on the right reverses the directions (in case you wired the ESC to the motors backwards).

The little sliding button beside the toggle on the right lets you go in forward or reverse at any speed you choose without holding the toggle switch. In other words, you can set the transmitter down and let the train run without holding it.

10. To run 2 locomotives, connect all 4 yellow to 4 motors and all 4 blue to 4 motors.

Tip: use connectors that don't require too much energy to pull apart.

Tip: use screw caps to connect your wires inside the loco shell. Then you don't have to solder or crimp and you can easily unscrew the cap (caps come in different sizes, indicated by their colors; you can get these in home depot)

Tip: wire a male and female connector at each end so you can tell which wire fits which if double-heading.

Tip: the 4-battery battery pack that comes with the radio unit can be used separately to power your loco lights. It is NOT used in the remote control setup I described. The 2 servos also are NOT used.

Tip: I've just scratched the surface of R/C. Over time, I'll know a lot more. For example, the other channel of the receiver might be used for some other function. Also, I believe the addition of a capacitor in the circuit would improve performance somewhat, but I need to investigate further and ask my electronic friends. I'm hoping some of you with more knowledge than I will do this procedure so that you can give me additional tips.

Tip: If you're using a battery car, this is all the R/C stuff you'll ever need to power all of your trains. If you wi***o use 2 locos operating separately on a track, purchase another radio in a different channel.

[jefelectric]

choochin3,

The main problems with Realtrax outside would be the UV rays effect on the plastic and the connections between joints.

I don't know, but doubt if the Realtrax has any UV protection. I noticed that on the new Atlas boxes they state that it is UV safe.

Definitely don't believe you could depend on the contacts in the Realtrax to last outdoors. If you do try it, be sure to use the anti-corrosion paste sold by LGB on the contacts as you put it together. The garden railway guys recommend it highly. I even used it on my indoor track.

Just my opinion for what it's worth.

Dave, I was wondering what had happened to this thread. Glad you got back to it. Somethng different and very interesting.

[FJ and G]

Hi Bill,

I'll be up your way April 8. I'll give you some advanced notice.

Outdoors modelers who model with styrene say that paint gives UV protection. Carl, you could pose this question on the Garden forum. The plastic in Realtrax is a lot thicker than styrene. If conductivity presents a problem down the road, the fix would simply be to solder jumpers between rails (1st clean off the oxidation).
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some more R/C notes:

Another tip: use bag tie-downs to bundle your wires.

there are 2-channels in the transmitter. I haven't even tried both channels but if some kid is operating a car (or boat) in your area, you or he can switch channels. If you want to run other trains, you could get another transmitter and use a different channel. I believe that 30 channels are available with transmitters.

I've pondered the animation idea. That was a B&M RS-3. Read about it in a book as well as a magazine a number of years ago. You could do that easily with one of the two servos (windmill-looking devices shown in one of my photos). The servos are controlled by the right (and left) toggle switch on the transmitter, so since you are not using the right toggle for anything, then that could control the animation. When you throttle one way, the servo turns a quarter turn and when you throttle the other way, the servo windmill turns a quarter turn in the other direction. This extra toggle and servo or some other electrical device instead of the servo, could be used, I'm assuming, to power your bell or whistle, as I believe you are transmitting a positive or negative half-wave current.