Starting Out & Looking For Input

[Anonymous]

Wolvie, do you happen to have a pic of your 4x8 layout? I'm new also and have a set of Lionel O gauge from the 1950's that I'd like to do a 4x8 setup in my basement with. I like your idea of folding legs to put it temporarily away if needed. I have the ZW transformer from the 1950's as well that works great. If you do have a pic please e-mail it to [e-mail].

Thanks!
Eddie

[Anonymous]

twaldie,

The accessory output on the CW-80 is ALTERNATING CURRENT (AC) factory set at about 12 volts, but which can be re-set (programmed) to other voltages similar to those available from the throttle on posts A - U.

Although the output is AC, the waveform is not a classic sine-wave. This results in compatibility problems with certain devices. I have not found any accessories that would not run on a CW-80, but some locomotives (in particular MTH engines equipped with PS-1) will not operate correctly in my personal experience.

[lionelsoni]

As for rheostats, Lionel made them before the war, when their transformers were not continuously adjustable. I just got 11 hits on Ebay for "lionel rheostat" (without the quotation marks). They can be had for a few bucks each. I use two of the model 81 to control two trains on an elevated loop around my train room with a prewar model T transformer. I am very happy with their performance.

[twaldie]

Wolvie,
Might have a cheap solution, if someone else can answer a question....
Is the accessory output from the CW-80 AC or DC? If the trolley will use what the accessory output puts out, you can set the CW-80 accessory voltage to a level where the trolley runs fine. Than use the track outputs to run your regular train, and you don't have to spend any money!
Tim

[jimhaleyscomet]

If you are at all interested in more track and a Thomas engine,.... pick up a Thomas set for about $130 mail order and you will get more track and an extra CW-80 transformer.

As an alternative your local hobby shop probably has a cheap transformer.

I much prefer several smaller transformers for running separate tracks (or just separate blocks as long as all are kept in phase).

Jim H

[jimhaleyscomet]

I like to inspect (more like feel) my trains for heat anytime they operate for 30 minutes. Trollies and reversing cars much more often.

At our club we try never to run command control trains for more than about 30 minutes before allowing them to cool. Especially sealed (for sound) diesel engines, they can get very hot!

Be ware of excessive sound. It will be a problem! No matter how much sound you think you can take....one long train on fastrack on a hard surface will be more that you want.

Be ware of ebay....prices there on new stuff are often higher than prices in the adds in CTT magazine..especially for track and expansion kits. Why, I do not know.

Jim H

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

Just remembered. I ran a trolley back and forth on a shelf in my sons room. I used a DC transformer from a Bachmann N gauge set. The Lionel trolleys draw very little current.

Hope this helps.

Precisely why I thought I could get away with just running a rheostat inline to the trolley track from the main controller…

But if this will cause heat &/or malfunctioning issues…well, this is why I ask the people who know better before trying out some “Ralph Kramden” idea.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leonard

I read all your posts and I am confused regarding your objectives, when you mentioned rheostats I thought you wanted to run Conventional not TMCC---you don't need a Command Base to run conventional from Cab 1 with a PowerMaster or TPC.

OK...Now, I'm confused...

QUOTE: From the Lionel Website:
Operating conventional locomotives from your CAB-1 Remote Controller is very simple. Forget about rewiring your trains or spending the day making track connections—installing TrainMaster Command Control is much easier than that!

What you need
You need these three basic components, available from your Authorized Lionel Dealer:
• Choose one: PowerHouse Power Supply (6-22983) OR another
18-volt transformer with a Power Adapter Cable (6-12893)
• Choose one: PowerMaster (6-12867), TMCC Track Power Controller 300 (6-14189), OR TMCC Track Power Controller 400 (6-14179)
•TMCC Command Base (for use with the TPC's, 6-12911)
• CAB-1 Remote Controller (6-12868)

QUOTE: With only a small 80 watt transformer I believe you have a major heat-related efficiency loss with a continous full throttle transformer and a pair of rheostats.
Good luck and happy railroading[:)].

OK, this makes sense. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

I read all your posts and I am confused regarding your objectives, when you mentioned rheostats I thought you wanted to run Conventional not TMCC---you don't need a Command Base to run conventional from Cab 1 with a PowerMaster or TPC.
With only a small 80 watt transformer I believe you have a major heat-related efficiency loss with a continous full throttle transformer and a pair of rheostats.
Good luck and happy railroading[:)].

[pbjwilson]

Wolvie,
If all you want to do is run a trolley on the second track, pick up a cheapo transformer at a hobby shop. I think the trolleys can even run on DC. I have a few transformers that I got used for under $10. Keep it simple.

Just remembered. I ran a trolley back and forth on a shelf in my sons room. I used a DC transformer from a Bachmann N gauge set. The Lionel trolleys draw very little current.

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Leonard, but I was looking for an inexpensive way out of this.

The cost of the TMCC is really quite prohibitive for me right now after the holidays. The way I understand it is I will need a CAB-1 and Command Base ($99 for the pair), a track Power Controller ($100 each – don’t I need 1 for each track?) and I believe that I can use the CW-80 for power…but if I can’t, then I need at least one 180 watt PowerHouse ($68).

So while I understand that it is a MUCH better solution, to go TMCC will cost me at best $200 and at worst, $367. Way too much for me to spend right now…especially if I can get the desired results with a couple of $5 to $10 rheostats. But I need to know if that can be done first from you guys…

[Anonymous]

As regards rheostats for adjusting track voltage--- a better solution is a Cab 1 hand-held remote linked with a TPC or Powermaster and transformer; that can easily do that for you. You can then run Conventional engines on Track #1 or Track #2 simply by adressing TR 1 or TR 2 on the Cab 1 and adjust speed with its red throttle knob.

Then if you acquire some TMCC engines all you need to also run in command is addition of the Command Base.

I read somewhere in a post that the average TMCC/RS conversion is about $230 without speed control.

[Anonymous]

OK, time to hit up the experts for some more advice.

I want to run 2 trains on 2 tracks with one transformer. One will be the regular train and one will be an independent, short, point-to-point trolley.

I have the CW-80 transformer that came with my set.

First question: Is this a good idea?

If so then Second question: Can I run a pair of rheostats from the transformer and to each independent track line so I can just leave the transformer on “High” and just adjust the voltage to each track?

If so, then Third Question: Do any of you have a favorite model of rheostat that you would suggest using for this application?

[Anonymous]

Look no further than CTT they have and are running tons of ideas for the fasttrack system. Buy the mags or get a subscription for the greatest insight to Toy Train ownership. There are also many layout books available, you might have to adapt some designs to use the fasttrack, but it is only track, put it where and how you like and move some of it around until it does what you want. If you just like to see the trains running then create two, three or even four loops that intersect with a passing siding or two.
If you want some operation, then create some branches off the single main line for switching and use your idea of a trolley to service the industries and a town, Bump to Bump.
Above all have fun doing it!

[Anonymous]

Hello Gents!

Well, quick update…

I just built a nice 4x8 layout board with folding legs. I used 1/2” plywood on the bottom, 1/2” Homasote in the middle and 1/2” foam on top. I used spray adhesive to join all the layers together and installed 2 sets of folding legs and topped it with a velvet-type green cover. With the use 3” foam around the edges on the bottom, I can fold the legs and rest it on the pool table hard-top cover. Right now, it’s standing on it’s own in the living room with a nice Christmas display.

In addition to the Polar Express Set, I also now have the following:

Both the PE Diner & Baggage Car
Additional FasTrack to create a large inner-passing loop
K-Line animated Christmas Display
Lighted Church
Lighted Toy Store with animated flashing sign
Lighted Cotton’s Candy Store
UPS loading station (like the Ice Station with packages) with Box Car
Both the NYC & Penn Flyer expansion sets (BOTH for a total of $97 brand new on eBay)
Lionel Erie Hudson w/tender & caboose ($96 brand new on eBay)

I used a hot glue gun to install small pins in the corners of the buildings so they set nicely into the table but are not permanent. Wiring was very easy since I have a background in that and all of the wires are neatly run on the underside and exit the side.

What I am now looking for:
A nice trolley w/bump & go to run independent around the perimeter
An operating Water Tower
A trestle set (maybe with a bridge) to run an elevated line (haven’t decided if it will be connected or independent).
A bunch of FasTrack layout ideas (I’ve been searching the internet but haven’t found all that many except on “Thor’s” site)

Eventually, I will build another 4x8 board to mount in an “L” shape off the first one and I’ll probably look into getting the TMCC system and s-l-o-w-l-y start moving into command systems. BTW, do you guys know if it is possible to upgrade the 2 engines I have to run in command mode? If so, then what is the going cost for such a conversion?

As always, I look forward to any input, suggestions and opinions you may have. I am learning a lot from all of you!

[Anonymous]

Welcome to a great branch of the hobby!!
All great suggestions from everyone. One thing to remember, don't get all caught up in the glamor part. Buy what appeals to you and what you will enjoy. Running the trains is the best therapy for anything that ails you!
Stay away from accessories that use very small bits, eg aformentioned coal loaders and the like. The best investment for me was Greenberg's Manual for Lionel trains. It has so much information on my postwar trains and it makes a good read and invaluable reference guide.
It is nice to hear about so many either just entering the hobby or renewing their interests.

On layout stuff, I am using 5/8" plywood and I am utilizing white and pink foam-board for creating scenery and for under the trackwork.

[cnw1995]

Wolvie, welcome!!! I would echo what some of the guys mentioned - set up the track and run the trains - then think about any track configuration changes you'd like to make - finally, think about what sort of action in the accessories you'd like - and enjoy researching them a bit more.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Fred.

I'll keep an eye on it. I never noticed any parts of the train getting more than just "warm" to the touch including the transformer. This was even after an hour or so of constant running.

I think after the holidays, I'll bring the engine into my local train shop and have them show me exactly what I should be doing for maintenance. The over-simplified picture that came with the train mentions nothing about the motor bearings as you did so it's probably best to have one of the pros walk me through it.

Thanks again!

[fwright]

Heat is the killer of toy trains. Whether it comes from friction or electrical, anytime a part gets pretty hot to the touch is an indication something is wrong and/or damage is likely to occur soon.

After your train has been running a while, check around the engine by the motor, and by the center rail roller pickups. Check your transformer. If all temps are reasonable, keep on railroading! Sooner or later, however, your engine will need disassembly and lubrication. The guys I know who run display layouts for hours on end swear by transmission fluid for gears and wheel bearings. A lighter oil is required for the motor bearings on old style motors - I believe can motors have sealed bearings with no lube possible.

Hope this helps

Fred Wright

[Anonymous]

I did some searching on the subject…but alas I could not find it referenced here…

So, here goes:

Just how long is it safe to run Lionel trains in a single session?

My Polar Express is currently running laps around the Christmas Tree and I’m curious if there is a minimum, maximum and recommended time the train should be run in a continuous session. A quick search here and on the Lionel site did not reveal any answer to this.

[Jumijo]

Someone was running the NYC Fler passenger expansion pack cars behind a small hudson at a show I was at this weekend. Nice looking outfit.

Jim

[Anonymous]

Well, quick update…

I just won 2 bids on ebay for both the Lionel Pennsylvania Flyer and the NYC Flyer Expansion sets. I got the both of them for less than $90 with shipping included! Needless to say, I’m pretty happy right now. I think that they will help in getting me started with my collection.

After the holidays, I’ll be headed to Home Depot/Lowes for the plywood and the foam as you mentioned here in this thread. I’ll also look at some cheap indoor/outdoor carpeting for the cover.

As always, I’ll keep you all posted and I’ll be sure to inquire before I commit to any big purchases. Please post any information/opinions that you believe will be helpful. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the help from all of you here!

[poppyl]

Here are some suggestions. First, get your starter set up and running so you can have some fun! Next, spend some time doing research on different kinds of operations, layout planning including future expansion options, construction, and wiring including command and control. Think things through before you rush off to do something that you may regret later. Once you have that process underway you can begin to focus on track and switches, power sources, locos and rolling stock . Again, do your research to see what fits your desires and perhaps more importantly, your budget. There are two things in O gauge that we never have enough of -- space and money. This may seem like an overwhelming task but you will be amazed at what you can accomplish with a little self-learning, research, and organization.

Good luck in your efforts and remember that we are here to help you with this.

Poppyl

[1688torpedo]

Hello Wolvie! Here is another thing to consider. When at a Train Shop or Show; If you happen to see a Engine Or Freight car in it's Original Box and you want to buy it. Ask the seller to open the Box for you.That Way. If the flap rips off the box, You will not get in trouble of ripping the box as the cardboard they are made from becomes fragile with age and can rip very easily after many years.And when Handling Steam Engines with Thin handrails. Pick them up at both ends.Do not grab them in the middle as the handrails can bend out of shape and the seller/owner will not be very happy with this.In a word,Just be very careful. Most collector's are very nice folks and after you get to know them.You'll be just fine.Some are just more sensitive than other's as to how a Train should be handled or not.Just be aware of this and proceed accordingly. Take Care.

[poppyl]

Welcome to the forum. I bet you are on information overload now. for what's it's worth, here are a couple of suggestions about your platform. Homasote is a good sound deadening material but it is heavy and would add a significant amount of weight to your "portable" layout. To keep your weight down, I would recommend foam over your base material. Most of us use plywood for our bases but you can also construct a modular layout using hollow core doors found at any home center as your base. These are fairly light, are easily moved, and you can expand your layout easily in the future by adding more doors. However, since the doors are hollow core, they will reflect sound like a durm so you have to put foam on them for noise deadening. FYI -- CTT ran a series of articles on a layout using three doors as its base a while back. It may be on their list of downloadable pdf's.

Poppyl

[fwright]

Wolvie

I would second what Buckeye Rivieter said about foam instead of plywood. Before foam was well known, I built my 4x8 table with 1/2 inch plywood. Used 1x4 and 1x3 for framing. Takes two strong people to carry, doesn't store anywhere, and too big for movers to handle. While the last might not apply to you, at some point you are going to want to move it off your pool table base.

My under the tree layout (4ft x 5ft) uses a 1x3 wood frame with 1.5 inch thick foam glued inside. Very nice, light, easy to handle. I glued a layer of 1/4 inch plywood on top of the foam to hold the track and accessory screws. I would suggest this type of framework, built in at least 2 sections for your situation.

I use green indoor-outdoor carpet on top of the plywood for the tinplate scenery effect. If you use the coal loading/unloading accessories, the carpet helps keep the coal on the table. I perform periodic vacuuming with a screen of ladies hose over the nozzle for recycling coal and other lost items.

If you are into operating accessories like I am, keep in mind that most require some degree of operator intervention - reloading, resetting, shifting the operating car position slightly, uncoupling at the right spot, etc. This is made easier if the accessories are on the edges of the layout and not in the middle. For this reason, my track plans have spurs and accessory sidings outside the "running" loops of track.

I use a combination of some of the already named dealers, train shows, and very occasional eBay to get what I want at reasonable prices.

my 2 cents - have fun!

yours in training
Fred

[Anonymous]

Seriously consider a control system before making any other engine purchases. I purchased a Lionel starter set (without TMCC) and thought that if I did get more involved I would just run a conventional layout. WRONG! When I started learning more about DCS and TMCC I had to have it. Then regretted spending the money on the first non-command set.
Since that first Lionel set I purchased about this time last year I have added another MTH starter set with a PS2 command engine and 3 other PS2 engines and of course a DCS system to run them. That little Lionel starter set engine is now sitting on a shelf.

[Anonymous]

Wow!

Great feedback so far! Given what I’ve been reading here over the last few weeks I can’t say that I’m surprised.

One of the issues that have been brought up is concerning the protection of the pool table. This is not an issue as I have custom hardtop cover that makes it double as a table. With the hardtop in place, I can literally do light carpentry on it with no ill effects.

I know a bit about wiring (I have done work as a sound engineer and setup outdoor, indoor, automotive and home/studio sound systems) so I will be hiding all of the wires underneath the plywood. Any powered accessories will be fitted with quick-release connectors so they can be moved without compromising the wire routing.

Noise with the FasTrack is not an issue for me. My den area is downstairs and I own my home. If the wife has been able to deal with my pro surround sound system, my poker games and my pool games, the sound of the trains will be quiet in comparison! Besides, I built her a music room in one of the bedrooms so she can play her guitars with the amps cranked up.

I will look into the indoor/outdoor carpeting along with some of the foam board options for the plywood. The reason I want a cover as opposed to paint is that I believe it will be easier to keep clean (from both a physical and aesthetic standpoint). Have a special head attachment for my vacuum cleaner that I use to clean the pool table felt and a cover will make it easier to hide wires. Not to mention the lack of splinters associated with plywood sheets…

Thanks for mentioning Island Trains and confirming my suspicions. I live on Staten Island and have been to that place at least 10 times this month! Great staff and great prices. I’ve noticed that their in-store prices are not much different than their website prices. Which is to say, their store prices are actually cheaper than many of the websites I’ve visited.

Looking at the various websites and Ebay, I am still experiencing information overload. There is just so much that it makes it difficult to focus on what you want to do. This was the reason for the original questions I posted here. When I see what the experts are saying about specific items, it makes it easier for me to focus my search and research on those items. Then, once I’ve narrowed down the list to “good” items that I can afford, finding the right deal is easy.

So, basically, given my original questions, think about if you had to start over and begin buying your favorite cars/accessories/etc. all over again. I intend to learn all I can from your past experiences on what is fun, what is hype and what is to be avoided. No reason for me to repeat any mistakes that could be avoided by listening to the experts…because I sure am going to make enough of my own!

Thanks again for contributing to my MRR education and please keep the comments coming!

[1688torpedo]

Hello Wolvie! & [#welcome] To the CTT Forum. What part of the Country do you reside in? The reason for asking is that a Forum member may live nearby you and can accompany you to Train Shops and shows with advice & help. This would be another way for you to get help and to steer clear of unscruppolous Folks who may want to make a big buck off of you. For Starter's Here are some Train Shops for your consideration: The Trading Post; 4394 Pearl Rd. Cleveland,Oh Phone# [phone]. They have Lionel (Postwar & Modern) plus a few prewar trains and he sells below MSRP Too! The Next recommendation is Joseph Grzyboski's Train Shop at 430 Lackawanna Ave in Scranton,Pa and his Phone# is1-570-347-3314. His store is stocked from floor to ceiling with Trains and he has Postwar & Modern Lionel.Plus, MTH. Some K-Line and plenty of other Toy Train Items in stock. Both of these places are Friendly and Helpful.You simply cannot go wrong doing business with either shop.What to buy? Well,You'll most likely get plenty of Ideas from your Nieces & Nephews.Just visit your friendly neighborhood train shop and see what they and you like and if its within your budget.There are plenty of photo's on this forum to give you ideas as to what kind of layout to build and plenty of folks to help you out and steer you in the right direction. Hope this helps you out.Take Care.