Need some engineering opinion on a hydrolic lift device

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrmcclellan

Gov,

Pretty neat. It seems you could have multiple shelves and have the docking pins retractable (solenoids) so you could pick which shelf you wi***o use/dock?

Regards,
Roy

Yes, good idea, perhaps some old central locking solenoids off a car would be about the right size/power.
I'll leave that to someone else though. I need to get the track down on the rest of the layout and get some trains running. [:D]

[wrmcclellan]

Gov,

Pretty neat. It seems you could have multiple shelves and have the docking pins retractable (solenoids) so you could pick which shelf you wi***o use/dock?

Regards,
Roy

[Anonymous]

I would use an air or electric device. Hydraulic systems are fine if they don't leak. If they do leak you will have a mess on your hands. They make air piston cylinders that can handle a good amount of weight.

[Anonymous]

Finally got a page together about this train lift:
http://www.ospreyweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kmr/projects/trainlift-01.htm

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eZAK
Can multiple tracks be stacked in order to store more trains?

Thanks

It is easiest to have just the two levels. With adjustable stops at both the top level and the bottom level it is guaranteed that the lift will come to rest in the exact same position every time it is used.
If an intermediate level is introduced it would be difficult to have the lift stop precisely each time.

Also there are micro switches top and bottom so when the lift reaches bottom the power is cut and the lift can only be raised. Vice versa for the top level.
Additional micro switches link the lift platform track to the appropriate level only when the platform has 'docked'.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eZAK

That is very interesting Governor!

What size motor are you using?

What is the capacity (weight limit) of the lift?

Can multiple tracks be stacked in order to store more trains?

Thanks

Initially I had a small 12v motor in mind but after some thought realised the motor free speed was too great and a gearbox would be needed. The whole plan started to look like a no-goer until I remembered an old Bosch cordless drill that I had kept with a view to finding some use for it.
It fitted the bill nicely with a 9.6v motor, switch reverse rather than mechanical and a variable trigger.
Nothing too technical here, I cut the handle part off the drill and mounted the remainder on the end of the screw shaft. [8D]
The handle part (with the trigger/reverse switch) will be attached on the end of a curly cord. Power will be from a mains/DC transformer.

The design is very similar to a scissor jack. The only difference is the extra scissor arms (albeit less strong) and a 10mm threaded bar for the main shaft (a scissor jack has a very course thread which presumably takes a heavier load). A scissor jack is rated around 1 ton, I have no reason to believe the train lift would'nt lift at least half that. So no worries there then [:D]

The lift is twin track and therefore can hold 1 x 8' and 1 x 7' train (points (switches) are on the lift).

The lift rises to my fiddle yard (staging yard) where there are 10 tracks ranging in length from 13' to 8' . The six longest fiddle yards tracks are split into two so the lift gives access to up to 19 trains.

This is the plan of the upper level:



More info here:
http://www.ospreyweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kmr/2005-layout/layout-03.htm#latestplan

[eZAK]

That is very interesting Governor!

What size motor are you using?

What is the capacity (weight limit) of the lift?

Can multiple tracks be stacked in order to store more trains?

Thanks

[FJ and G]

I saw a motorcycle hoist for about $50 today in a Pep Boy ad that might also do the trick. In the same ad was a 2-ton auto hoist for about $100 that could hoist a train up or down to various levels.

When not used on your layout, you could use it to pull the engine out of your car or move a heavy bolder from the backyard.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

That's probably OO, which has about 1/4 the bulk of O.

Yes, it's OO scale.
The lift is 8 feet long, 6 inches wide and has a 15 inch lift.

[lionelsoni]

That's probably OO, which has about 1/4 the bulk of O.

[FJ and G]

yikes! [:D]

[Anonymous]

More here:
http://www.ospreyweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kmr/2005-layout/layout-10.htm

[FJ and G]

dwiemer,

Would be interesting to see the lever action you propose in a diagram. You can email it to me and I'll post it if you have trouble with it.

Gov. : Couldn't get the video to show up in my Mac and still trying to follow the diagrams. But it does look interesting.

I'm some time away from completing the top shelf of the layout so I have some time to mull the pros and cons of a lift device vs a helix, or as the Brits say, a "spiral."

-----------------------

Related topic:

Governor,

You mentioned a "vertical traverser." Been reading Cyril Freezer's Model Railway book (from England).

He speaks about fiddle yards and then gets into some really neat concepts reg. cassettes, sector plates, traversers and even sector plate roundtables; perhaps the best way to turn a train while simultaneously routing new trains from staging. But my corridor is not wide enough to swing a sector plate roundtable.

I'm seriously considering using a sector plate in place of yard staging, as it will pretty much eliminate a whole nest of turnouts. The traverser plate is nice too, but again, more width is needed (I think) for it to slide back and forth.

[dwiemer]

How about using lever action? Simply have a section of track that is lifted or lowered by lever into place. It would be possible to have three levels. The best part about this is that it has fewer moving parts to go wrong.

[Anonymous]

I've posted a video of around 8.5MB in WMV format featuring my vertical traverser (or train lift) so those with Windows Media Player will be able to view it.
You are better off right clicking the link and downloading before viewing.

A few notes:
The trains are static as the track either side has yet to be placed (I only finished the lift yesterday after all).

Also, the sound track is to amuse the members of my forum so please excuse the siren sound and don't go rushing for the shelters.

The video will only be available for about a week as it has filled my server space. So if you are trying this link after about the 22nd May you will probably find it doesn't work.

If you are wondering how it fits into the layout, there is a plan here:
http://www.ospreyweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kmr/2005-layout/layout-03.htm#latestplan

And now, the video:
(The video has now been replaced, however a frequently updated video is available which may include the train lift)
http://www.ospreyweb.myby.co.uk/wsr-miscpics/waldovia-current-video.wmv

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

A fiddle yard is a "backstage" yard, usually not meant to be seen, for holding trains not running on the layout.

Thanks for that Bob, it also helps me out.
I recently found out that in German it is Schattenbahnhof (hiding station).

[FJ and G]

Welcome, Governor, to the forum. Didn't see your reply until now. Very nice. Looking forward to how it works. Some cars have scissor jacks.

Very creative.

[lionelsoni]

For those unfamiliar with British modeling:

British OO is different from American OO. It is the British counterpart of HO. It is a scale of 4 millimeters to the foot (1:76) used with 16.5-millimeter HO (1:87) track.

A fiddle yard is a "backstage" yard, usually not meant to be seen, for holding trains not running on the layout.

[Anonymous]

I'm in the process of building a vertical train lift using the scissor action principle.
The lift is eight feet long and six inches wide and to be used on a OO scale layout in the UK. The lift will take one or two trains, to and from a fiddle yard which is 15 inches above the main layout.

Our web site is at www.waldovia.co.uk but latest details are on our forum.
Animated gifs explaining the principle are here:
http://www.ospreyweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kmr/projects/trainlift-04.gif
http://www.ospreyweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kmr/projects/trainlift-05.gif

And a photograph of the project so far:
http://www.ospreyweb.myby.co.uk/wsr-miscpics/waldovia-trainlift-01.jpg

All pictures and details of the project will be on the site when it is finished (a couple of weeks maybe).

P.S. Sorry to butt in like this with my first post.

[lionelsoni]

Here it is: OGR, August, 2003, p. 65, "Vertical Train Storage Lift" by Carl Blum.

[jkerklo]

Dave, even better.

The shelf switchbacks go up to a ceiling shelf that goes around the room and through the wall, to another shelf switchback in the hall, then to each room of the house. Each room has a shelf switchback and some have more table layouts.

The whole house becomes a train layout!

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

John and Jon

I've been mulling this over and the waterwheel gave me an idea. I have a drill press and it has a sort of "capstan" that when you turn it, the press raises and lowers. A captstan could be built to raise and lower the train, just like in the days of yore when sailors manned the capstan to raise and lower the chain.

Another idea would be to create an inverse spiral helix, that models an open pit ore mine. Of course this will defeat the purpose of saving space but the "cool" factor would override any inconveniences to people trying to move thru the hallway.

This open pit mine photo, taken out west in the earlier days of steam, was too long to run across the page so you will need to turn your computer sideways to see it, as I'm running it vertical.



BTW, John,

I've long considered a logging layout with switchbacks going 9 feet up to the ceiling. You could intersperse the switchbacks with loops around the mountains and thru tunnels for continuous operations when you get tired of throwing turnouts and stop and goes.

Of course w/MTH's TIU and AIU and preprogrammed looping capability, it even is possible to completely automate switchback moves using the recording feature, the locomotive would start and stop and the turnouts would change on their own.

[jkerklo]

Dave, you are an inspiration!

OK, picture this. A long wall or adjacent walls. Trains are stored/displayed on tracks on the wall. Each shelf has two (or more tracks) one track holds the train, the other is empty. Adjacent sets of shelves (side by side) are offset by one-half the shelf spacing. Shelves are long enough for a train, with sufficient space between them to ramp half the shelf spacing distance. Each shelf has one track up, another down.

Now, remember those trains in Peru that go up the side of a mountain by switching back and forth on switch-backs!

Just shuffle trains on the empty tracks on the shelves until they are at layout height.

Heck, forget the layout. YOU HAVE A VERTICAL LAYOUT!

Add some of your superb scenery. Easy to view, even close up. Put any train back on the track, without reaching.

Anyone has an empty wall, even a hallway. Think of the time that could be spent shuffling trains around.

Even better. Recall those little plastic toys that had an array of letters on movable tiles, with one tile missing. Moving the tiles around to spell words could take days.

Well, put a train on all but one of the shelf tracks. It could take weeks to get a train from the top to the bottom. What fun.

I like this idea. Thanks for the inspiration. Anyone seen anything like it? Probably. It is rather easy.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[highrailjon]

Dave, You may want to consider this as an option. All you need is some running water!![:D]

[Roger Bielen]

Dave a problem with a hydrolic ram is that you need as much space below the unit as the intended lift. The shaft has to go somewhere when in the down position. Big Boy's screw idea also came to mind as I was going througn the posts. Depending on the pitch of the threads you can have an extremely fine adjustment, at the cost of time. With a varying pitch thread you could go fast and slow as you reach a stop point, the only problem would be the follower design.

[lionelsoni]

There was an article about a train elevator in OGR a while back. I will post the date when I find it, if someone else doesn't get to it first.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Dave, there's no reason you couldn't power this with a hand crank. Hmmmm, model railroading exercise. And I always thought those two activities were mutually exclusive. I better sit down and give this some thought.

See why I liked the motor better?[swg]

[FJ and G]

Sounds like a stationary bicycle could be erected with sprocket connected to screw drive so you could sit and pedal

[Big_Boy_4005]

Actually, a screw drive would work well for this. A single motor with a sprocket to drive a chain, and sprockets on the ends of some threaded rods at each end. Add a couple of micro switches to to set the travel limits. One button for up and one for down, the rest is automatic.

Dave, not as slowly as I am.[swg]