Lionel Polar Express Set Availability

[mead66]

Just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas. I hope that Lionel straightens itself out before it is too late.

[Anonymous]

I was at a train show on sunday and one vendor had a polar express set for sale $450.00 it was still there when I left.

[Anonymous]

If anyone is looking for some good cheap fun watch the prices on Polar Express sets start to plunge on Ebay (just like many smart folk on this thread predicted!). Obviously sets are making their way off ships etc. and into the market. Stockpilers may be getting worried (you really do have to wonder just how many sets are out there!). Today at 5:00 p.m. one Ebayer paid $375 plus $40 for shipping for a grand total of $415. One hour before he made his last bid another guy was listing them at $335.00 with free shipping with Buy-It-Now. The guy wasted $80! The highest price paid on Ebay was $600.

[espeefoamer]

I found out today at my LHS that the next run of Lionel's Polar Express will be available in February.They expect it to be a hot seller.

[Anonymous]

Emmaandy, thanks for the kind words. More importantly though, thanks for the heads-up and link to Rokenbok. I've always known that one day my boys will be playing with Rokenbok but you nudged me to their web site now and it's made me realize that Rokenbok makes great activity toys that could easily be tied into a Lionel Train play set-up. I think using both systems together has the potential to keep the demon gameboys at bay for a long time. Thanks again!

[Anonymous]

Nicely said ronkenworthy.

[Anonymous]

Trainworld has confirmed the second run will be available in March @ $209 and they even have (or two days ago did) a new shipment available now @ $349.

Regarding Copyright & Trademark. These three words "The Polar Express" are not trademarkable and so regardless of what Warner Brothers would have you believe they cannot own these word or deny anyone else from using them. The reason they are not trademarkable is that they are both generically descriptive and geographically descriptive. It would be like trying to get Swiss Cheese or Oregon Trail Wagon Train trademarked--you couldn't in USA or anywhere else in the world that follows the Madrid Protocol. What Warner Brothers and Chris Van Allsburg own and can stop others from using are the distinct features and characters of their distinct Polar Express book and movie. So if those folks at The Train Station were to paint their cars the exact same way or start including the action characters that were based on the story (like Lionel does) then Warner Brothers could go after them. As it stands now The Train Station has not infringed anyone's Trademarks or Copyrights. We are all free to write a book or make a movie called The Polar Express. It had just better be a totally original work--and the same goes with making a toy Train called The Polar Express.

I'm not saying what The Train Station did is cool or ethical; I'm just pointing out that they've not legally infringed anyone's trademark or rights. It is undeniable they're trying to piggyback on someone else's success (or failure, if you include Lionel in the mix).

[Dave Farquhar]

Retcapt121, having just gotten my set yesterday, I think it's a good way to start, but as far as increasing in value it's hard to say. Keep all the boxes, paper, etc., and keep it in the best condition possible while still enjoying it and it may increase in value. Then again, since this has been the most popular Lionel set in 50 years, it may also become the most common, especially if they keep it in production for long.

Collectibles in general aren't a good investment. The best you can realistically hope for is that you enjoy them, and hopefully in the end you or your heirs can get back out of it the money you put in.

I spend a sizeable portion of my entertainment money on trains. My investment money goes into mutual funds or something similar. I figure the trains are a better investment than action movie DVDs or a bigger TV, in that they'll hold more value, but I buy them because I enjoy them.

[Anonymous]

I've been trying to find a Polar Express set for my son. We're probably going to end up waiting until after the Holiday. At least we tell the kids that Santa doesn't bring you everything on your list; he picks what to bring from your list.

RetCapt121:

I wouldn't buy any modern train set with the idea or hope that it will increase in value. As I understand it, most train items hold their value OK, but don't really appreciate. There are exceptions, of course, and a lot of the value of an item depends upon its condition.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Hi all,
I am just getting started in collecting Lionel trains. I had them as a kid, however they are long gone. I have the chance to pickup the Polar Express Set at a good price. Do you think this is a good way to start? And would it increase in value?
Thanks for the help,
Retcapt121

[Anonymous]

They darn well better stop promoting the set as a "Polar Express Junior" or a "Polar Express" anything. I doubt if anyone really much cares about what they do to "customize" a Lionel train set, but you can be darn sure that Warner Bros. and others associated with the "legal" Polar Express marks, including the origianl book's author and publisher, will come down on hard on them for trademark infringement.

I am continually amazed at the stupidity some of these guys show. Anything to make a fast buck, I suppose.

[epdret]

Lionel says more are headed to dealers this month (mid-December).
If you're in NYC for the holidays check the window display at Macy*s-Herald Square; quite impressive but none are for sale on the inside.

[Anonymous]

There still avalible in ill at American toy train in itasca ill. Went there saturday they had 5 sets left

[Anonymous]

That last post is amazing.
It is like a poem.
I totally agree with it.
Lets get these skofflaws and make a lesson of them.
I hate lawers but lets sue.
I can see so clearly now how wrong I was.
It is like a cloud has lifted

I especially like the gloating at the end.

[Buckeye Riveter]

From the end panel of the Polar Express Box:


I wonder what copy righted means? I bet the Train Station is going to find out. I think Lionel just found out what it means from a Federal Court Jury when they "copied" some small insignificant item from MTH. Oh yea, that's the answer, WB gave the Train Station permission to make copies of the Polar Express and they didn't need to send a dime of their profits to Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers is such a nice company to do that for the Train Station. I wonder why they didn't do that for the train stores in these parts. I guess we are not in good with Warner Brothers as the Train Station.

And BTW, my daughter's Polar Express is not for sale, even though it was ordered in April and only cost $199.95.

[3railguy]

The bulk of Polar Express sets have been stock piled by speculators. They've flooded ebay. The bids stop at around $270 and the $400 buy it now auctions are getting zero bids. There are likely more sets in the hands of speculators than what the market wants and it won't be long before these sets stop moving. That's when speculators will unload them for $225. Lionel must be watching this too and they may not be sure how many more to make and when to make them. My suggestion is to be patient. You may get one for $175 next January.

Lionel is not the problem. Speculators are the problem. Watch the greedy fools get 50 cents on the dollar for them. LMAO!!!

[Anonymous]

I found out today that several large corporations were given several hundred sets each. Pepsi I am sure you have already seen is using them in grocery stores as sales displays. Ford Motor Company attained several hundred sets to sell to their employees for $200.00. These are most likely the ones being sold on Ebay for $400.00. They were able to get them and do not even want them. I can not buy one for my son, this is all he is wanting from Santa, So sad he won't get one, but I am sure Pepsi will make alot more sales , and those Ford Employees will have an extra $200.00 to spend. Lands End had them in their catalog, I am sure they were making a profit on them also! Lionel does not need us the loyal customers anymore with such support from these corporations. MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[Anonymous]

Probably all true. But sueing a train shop is not going to be the financial savior of Lionel as voiced earier in this thread. My feeling is that they are still selling Lionel trains and no one here in this forum really knows what they (Train Station)can and cannot do with Lionels blessing. This is all baseless conjecture. If the kids are getting what they think they want that is fine in my book. It is better than nothing.

Besides who is helping Lionel more in the long run a company that is selling a train set made of Lionel componants similar to a set that Lionel itself made the mistake of under producing or the sellers on e-bay listing everyone of the 20 sets they lifted off the back of the truck as "the last one in my hands".

Lionel has already sold all of the sets it made. It made the same profit on each. The resellers are making an even bigger profit. If the Junior sets sell more Lionel componants then Lionel makes more money than the $0 they make from the high resellers. They also get to save some face and beat back the greed and high prices that turn people off of the hobby. Lionel should give permission to all of their dealers to do this repainting. The sets are popular now so why not. Who cares about collectability more new Toy Train enthusiasts are a better trade off.

[Buckeye Riveter]

The Train Station can paint cars to their hearts content, but as you say Big Boy when they slapped the name "Polar Express" on the side of the Lionel Train they are in deep do-do. I would bet Warner Brother's has some pretty tight licensing rights to the name Polar Express and Lionel agreed to those restrictions in the licensing agreement. I would imagine that somewhere in the teeny tiny fine print of the agreement it states, "All authorized dealers must be good little dealers and not make copies or facsimiles of this here train. If they are not good little dealers, Lionel will send some guys out to see them and make them a deal they can't refuse."

We had a Ford dealer in Ohio put some decorative decals on several Escorts and advertised it for sale as a Taurus Something or Other, I don't remember exactly, and then we watched Ford Motor Company unload on him. He never pulled a stunt like that again.

My 25-year-old daughter has her official, ordered in April, Polar Express and she is delighted. She was raised on the book, getting it read to her every Christmas. She intends to put the express beneath her tree for years and years to come, just as her Dad has done with his old Lionel Rio Grande for years and years. Makes a father proud that he raised his kid right.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I think the real issue with these "junior" sets is that they use the words "Polar Express" at all. The name Polar Express is copyrighted, and the store would need to get permission to use it, which I seriously doubt they did. I would not be surprised if they did recieve a cease and desist order.

[Anonymous]

The Train Station is a Lionel Dealer and they are selling Lionel products albit redecorated ones. They even say so if you read the copy. "Decorated exclucively by us..." or something along those lines.

If you look, the cars are the Lionel cars and not the cheaper Williams versions as is the starter set engine. So Lionel is still making money. Didn't Madison Hardware used to do things like this in the past. I am sure there will be fewer of these Polar Junior sets than real ones. If a kid gets this set and thinks it is the "real" one who cares, at least he has something rather than waiting until the ship comes in. Most kids would rather have something in their hands than a promise on christmas morning.

[espeefoamer]

The Polar Express Jr set from The Train Station:A very Merry Christmas for Lionel and Warner Bros. lawers?
With Lionel in trouble with MTH and stareing bankrupcy in the face, maybe this lawsuit can pull them through.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Allan Miller

"www.train-station.com. They are advertising a lionel polar express junior set for $229.00."
--------------------------------------

Lionel and/or Warner Bros. attorneys should be all over these train-station folks like flies on . . . well, you know what! A rip-off; a misrepresentation of brand; a violation of trademark and copyright; and a blatant attempt to exploit consumers. Shame on them!

I can't argue with you on this one Allan. Repainting and trying to dupe consumers is flat out wrong. This is much worse than dealers and speculators selling the genuine sets for $200 over MSRP.

I consider myself lucky that I have no interest in buying this set at any price.

[Anonymous]

"www.train-station.com. They are advertising a lionel polar express junior set for $229.00."
--------------------------------------

Lionel and/or Warner Bros. attorneys should be all over these train-station folks like flies on . . . well, you know what! A rip-off; a misrepresentation of brand; a violation of trademark and copyright; and a blatant attempt to exploit consumers. Shame on them!

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mead66

I was told by an employee at one of our major hobby stores that Warner Bros. had a role in this mess as they only wanted a certain number of sets released before the movie debut. He also told me that a lot of sets are still offshore in CA due to the shortage of dock workers.

When I first read this post by mead66, I thought no way, but then after thinking about it there could be some validity to the Warner Bros. restriction to create more publicity especially from those that are into trains. It seems in this hobby that a rarity continuously takes center stage. Time will tell.

[mead66]

I was told by an employee at one of our major hobby stores that Warner Bros. had a role in this mess as they only wanted a certain number of sets released before the movie debut. He also told me that a lot of sets are still offshore in CA due to the shortage of dock workers.

[dougdagrump]

If you don't mind waiting til March, "Just Trains " is taking orders for it at $205. [:D]

[mead66]

I too thought that the Junior set was not a good deal. I was just trying to help someone out who might have a child who wants the set for Christmas, but is unable to get the one from Lionel. I personally was able to get the real Lionel set from FAO.com (regular retail price plus $12 handling charge) the week before Thanksgiving. My 8 year old son's birthday is shortly after Christmas and he wanted this instead of a big party.

Anyone who is searching may want to try Smokey Mountain Trains at www.smokeymtntrains.com/index2.html. I was almost able to get one through them. They are very nice to deal with.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lkrz1

In 3 or 4 months from now you will be able to buy it online for about 220 bucks.

Probably, and maybe cheaper, but that will just aggravate the problem. New comers to the hobby are frustrated now--the kids want the train now (or at least for Christmas). And how will the parent that plunked down $450 for the set feel when they see them blown out at $170 in May and June.

What a blunder.