Lionel Polar Express Set Availability

[Anonymous]

I recently emailed Lionel ([e-mail]) asking them about the second run of Polar Express Sets in January. Lionel emailed me back saying they can't confirm anything at this time. I emailed them back trying to get more info. but they just stonewalled me--they said: "Our marketing department doesn't advise us of their plans." I emailed the internet dealer I normally buy from (Trainworld) and they're not taking any new Polar Express orders until December 1st at the earliest. They were equally vague and it makes me wonder how solid this proposed second run really is.

So what gives here? I understand that Lionel and their dealers completely underestimated the demand for this set. Okay, we can forgive them for that. But obviously a second run is required and I don't understand why Lionel isn't being clear about this. The only thing I can think of is that they want to wait until after the Holiday Season to make sure that the demand doesn't suddenly evaporate. But as a consumer I just want to be sure that I will be able to get a set at some point. Does anyone have more information about this second run?

IMHO the Polar Express movie (our family has seen it twice!) will join the book as a Christmas classic and so I would think that the Lionel Polar Express Set is something that should be re-released from time to time to satisfy demand from new families discovering the wonderful story. Is this something Lionel will likely do?

If anyone can shed any light on any of this I'd be most appreciative. Lionel is missing a lot of sales here--and a ready made hook to lure more people into the wonderful world of electric trains! Perhaps even more importantly they're dropping the ball in not doing their share in promoting such a wonderful story and movie!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Ron, my guess is that Lionel has it's manufacturing schedule pretty well planned out so they can deliver all of the different products in the catalog. The unexpected success of the Polar Express poses a real dilema for them, and has left them scrambling to shuffle things around to meet the demand. They only have a limited capacity to produce products. The fact that the plant is in China doesn't help the shipping time either.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

. They only have a limited capacity to produce products. The fact that the plant is in China doesn't help the shipping time either.

Big Boy is right, assuming Lionel could get the raw materials and production time, it would take 6 weeks to get product here. That's four weeks from China to Long Beach, CA. Then another 2 to get it through customs and sent to Lionel's distribution center. Then it has to go out to all the distributers and retailers.

If you want one before X-mas...good luck.

[Anonymous]

I'm not wanting one for Christmas and I don't care if it's three or four months or even longer! I made that clear in my post. I'm simply trying to find out whether Lionel will even be doing a second run. They owe it to us and if they'd announce it (even without a definite date) those wanting one could all rest easy. Those wanting it by Christmas can pay the inflated prices we see on Ebay (Lionel's promise of a second run might even help lower these prices because some consumers would just opt to wait!).

[Anonymous]

I've also had difficulty getting an answer from Lionel and the Internet dealers are giving different messages. Most seem to think there is a second run. However, at least one small dealer I spoke with doesn't think they are getting the number of sets they originally ordered. If that happens, I think we ought to ask why.

If I may go in a slightly different direction, even if there is a second run, IMHO what's happening right now with these sets is going to destroy any chance the hobby will be able to get a boost from the movie. They're hitting $450 on Ebay and the few dealers I found that are still listing a price are asking $320 or more. This is going to continue the myth that Lionel trains are just for collectors and too pricey for the average family. I hate to say it, but I think Lionel blew it. I hope at least some of the people looking for the Polar Express will take a look at some of the cheaper set (and nice sets) being offered by both Lionel and K-line. With the new track, operating cars, included figures, railsounds, etc, these sets are a great value.

[mead66]

Hi,

Try www.train-station.com. They are advertising a lionel polar express junior set for $229.00.

[Anonymous]

Why not just wait till next year when they make some more. The more that are out there the less they will be. I wouldnt buy any now and pay the inflated price. Come next year when more are out you will never see this train set go above the retail price.

[Anonymous]

Key word is " junior "

That set they are offering at $229 are repainted starter bits which look nothing like the train depicted in the book or the movie. I cannot fathom why they did not at least used some shades of blue and red on those passenger cars instead of slapping on a coat of silver paint and a really goofy looking, cheap name tag.

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mead66

Hi,

Try www.train-station.com. They are advertising a lionel polar express junior set for $229.00.

I'm not sure the key word in this case is "junior", it may drift more towards the word "ripoff".[:(!]

[Buckeye Riveter]

I'm surprised that the Train Station hasn't gotten a call from Lionel's lawyers.

[Anonymous]

I called Land's End which had the Polar Express in one of their recent catalogs this weekend. They were backordered and didn't expect to have any product available for shipment until January 15th.

What is hard to understand is how Lionel could bet the farm with marketing, advertising and licensing dollars, but not have the inventory to back it up? This movie was not like Thomas the Train, which was marketed to children 6 and under with a bunch of no name actors and has beens. Polar Express was planned for release at Xmas, starred Tom Hanks, who purchased the movie rights, and directed by Zemikus (sic) and feature new movie making technology. They should have had product sitting in Wal-Mart, Target and Costco by the pallet. Even if they had to give up a little margin they would have made up the difference in volume.... let alone incremental sales from non train people looking to expand their sets with some extra track. Lionel played right in to the hands of the EBay folks (who had some foresight) that buy up product just to flip it at a higher price.

Also shipping time from Hong Kong to Long Beach is 10 to 15 days depending on the vessel. It can take 5 to 10 days on average to unload and clear customers. If the importer has their act together imported merchandise can be precleared. Currently, there is a backlog in unloading container ships of about 5 days due to the holiday season and new mega container vessels that carry almost twice the cargo of older ships.

[cbq9911a]

There was a sidebar in this week's TIME magazine about getting the Polar Express set. Basically, every place the reporter went (in Chicago) didn't have it, but she was able to get it from an out of town dealer for $ 450.00.

[Anonymous]

In 3 or 4 months from now you will be able to buy it online for about 220 bucks.

[Kooljock1]

Holy Smokes!

Can you say: "Train Station sued by Warner Brothers!"?

Not a bad little set though...

Jon [8D]

[Anonymous]

What a pathetic knockoff. A 4-4-2 loco is supposed to resemble a 2-8-4 Berkshire. A closed end round observation to replace an open end round end one. Other cars don't come close to resembling the ones in the movie.

I hope Warner Bros. sues the socks off of them for infringement. It will serve them right!


By the way, I understand that Hallmark is selling Polar Express material. Haven't been there yet. Does anyone here have any knowledge?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lkrz1

In 3 or 4 months from now you will be able to buy it online for about 220 bucks.

Probably, and maybe cheaper, but that will just aggravate the problem. New comers to the hobby are frustrated now--the kids want the train now (or at least for Christmas). And how will the parent that plunked down $450 for the set feel when they see them blown out at $170 in May and June.

What a blunder.

[mead66]

I too thought that the Junior set was not a good deal. I was just trying to help someone out who might have a child who wants the set for Christmas, but is unable to get the one from Lionel. I personally was able to get the real Lionel set from FAO.com (regular retail price plus $12 handling charge) the week before Thanksgiving. My 8 year old son's birthday is shortly after Christmas and he wanted this instead of a big party.

Anyone who is searching may want to try Smokey Mountain Trains at www.smokeymtntrains.com/index2.html. I was almost able to get one through them. They are very nice to deal with.

[dougdagrump]

If you don't mind waiting til March, "Just Trains " is taking orders for it at $205. [:D]

[mead66]

I was told by an employee at one of our major hobby stores that Warner Bros. had a role in this mess as they only wanted a certain number of sets released before the movie debut. He also told me that a lot of sets are still offshore in CA due to the shortage of dock workers.

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mead66

I was told by an employee at one of our major hobby stores that Warner Bros. had a role in this mess as they only wanted a certain number of sets released before the movie debut. He also told me that a lot of sets are still offshore in CA due to the shortage of dock workers.

When I first read this post by mead66, I thought no way, but then after thinking about it there could be some validity to the Warner Bros. restriction to create more publicity especially from those that are into trains. It seems in this hobby that a rarity continuously takes center stage. Time will tell.

[Anonymous]

"www.train-station.com. They are advertising a lionel polar express junior set for $229.00."
--------------------------------------

Lionel and/or Warner Bros. attorneys should be all over these train-station folks like flies on . . . well, you know what! A rip-off; a misrepresentation of brand; a violation of trademark and copyright; and a blatant attempt to exploit consumers. Shame on them!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Allan Miller

"www.train-station.com. They are advertising a lionel polar express junior set for $229.00."
--------------------------------------

Lionel and/or Warner Bros. attorneys should be all over these train-station folks like flies on . . . well, you know what! A rip-off; a misrepresentation of brand; a violation of trademark and copyright; and a blatant attempt to exploit consumers. Shame on them!

I can't argue with you on this one Allan. Repainting and trying to dupe consumers is flat out wrong. This is much worse than dealers and speculators selling the genuine sets for $200 over MSRP.

I consider myself lucky that I have no interest in buying this set at any price.

[espeefoamer]

The Polar Express Jr set from The Train Station:A very Merry Christmas for Lionel and Warner Bros. lawers?
With Lionel in trouble with MTH and stareing bankrupcy in the face, maybe this lawsuit can pull them through.

[Anonymous]

The Train Station is a Lionel Dealer and they are selling Lionel products albit redecorated ones. They even say so if you read the copy. "Decorated exclucively by us..." or something along those lines.

If you look, the cars are the Lionel cars and not the cheaper Williams versions as is the starter set engine. So Lionel is still making money. Didn't Madison Hardware used to do things like this in the past. I am sure there will be fewer of these Polar Junior sets than real ones. If a kid gets this set and thinks it is the "real" one who cares, at least he has something rather than waiting until the ship comes in. Most kids would rather have something in their hands than a promise on christmas morning.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I think the real issue with these "junior" sets is that they use the words "Polar Express" at all. The name Polar Express is copyrighted, and the store would need to get permission to use it, which I seriously doubt they did. I would not be surprised if they did recieve a cease and desist order.

[Buckeye Riveter]

The Train Station can paint cars to their hearts content, but as you say Big Boy when they slapped the name "Polar Express" on the side of the Lionel Train they are in deep do-do. I would bet Warner Brother's has some pretty tight licensing rights to the name Polar Express and Lionel agreed to those restrictions in the licensing agreement. I would imagine that somewhere in the teeny tiny fine print of the agreement it states, "All authorized dealers must be good little dealers and not make copies or facsimiles of this here train. If they are not good little dealers, Lionel will send some guys out to see them and make them a deal they can't refuse."

We had a Ford dealer in Ohio put some decorative decals on several Escorts and advertised it for sale as a Taurus Something or Other, I don't remember exactly, and then we watched Ford Motor Company unload on him. He never pulled a stunt like that again.

My 25-year-old daughter has her official, ordered in April, Polar Express and she is delighted. She was raised on the book, getting it read to her every Christmas. She intends to put the express beneath her tree for years and years to come, just as her Dad has done with his old Lionel Rio Grande for years and years. Makes a father proud that he raised his kid right.

[Anonymous]

Probably all true. But sueing a train shop is not going to be the financial savior of Lionel as voiced earier in this thread. My feeling is that they are still selling Lionel trains and no one here in this forum really knows what they (Train Station)can and cannot do with Lionels blessing. This is all baseless conjecture. If the kids are getting what they think they want that is fine in my book. It is better than nothing.

Besides who is helping Lionel more in the long run a company that is selling a train set made of Lionel componants similar to a set that Lionel itself made the mistake of under producing or the sellers on e-bay listing everyone of the 20 sets they lifted off the back of the truck as "the last one in my hands".

Lionel has already sold all of the sets it made. It made the same profit on each. The resellers are making an even bigger profit. If the Junior sets sell more Lionel componants then Lionel makes more money than the $0 they make from the high resellers. They also get to save some face and beat back the greed and high prices that turn people off of the hobby. Lionel should give permission to all of their dealers to do this repainting. The sets are popular now so why not. Who cares about collectability more new Toy Train enthusiasts are a better trade off.

[Anonymous]

I found out today that several large corporations were given several hundred sets each. Pepsi I am sure you have already seen is using them in grocery stores as sales displays. Ford Motor Company attained several hundred sets to sell to their employees for $200.00. These are most likely the ones being sold on Ebay for $400.00. They were able to get them and do not even want them. I can not buy one for my son, this is all he is wanting from Santa, So sad he won't get one, but I am sure Pepsi will make alot more sales , and those Ford Employees will have an extra $200.00 to spend. Lands End had them in their catalog, I am sure they were making a profit on them also! Lionel does not need us the loyal customers anymore with such support from these corporations. MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[3railguy]

The bulk of Polar Express sets have been stock piled by speculators. They've flooded ebay. The bids stop at around $270 and the $400 buy it now auctions are getting zero bids. There are likely more sets in the hands of speculators than what the market wants and it won't be long before these sets stop moving. That's when speculators will unload them for $225. Lionel must be watching this too and they may not be sure how many more to make and when to make them. My suggestion is to be patient. You may get one for $175 next January.

Lionel is not the problem. Speculators are the problem. Watch the greedy fools get 50 cents on the dollar for them. LMAO!!!

[Buckeye Riveter]

From the end panel of the Polar Express Box:


I wonder what copy righted means? I bet the Train Station is going to find out. I think Lionel just found out what it means from a Federal Court Jury when they "copied" some small insignificant item from MTH. Oh yea, that's the answer, WB gave the Train Station permission to make copies of the Polar Express and they didn't need to send a dime of their profits to Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers is such a nice company to do that for the Train Station. I wonder why they didn't do that for the train stores in these parts. I guess we are not in good with Warner Brothers as the Train Station.

And BTW, my daughter's Polar Express is not for sale, even though it was ordered in April and only cost $199.95.