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TCA Dues now $50.00. What will be the impact? Locked

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TCA Dues now $50.00. What will be the impact?
Posted by dlagrua on Friday, April 11, 2014 2:14 PM
As a long time TCA member, I was taken back when the membership dues jumped from $35 to an exorbitant $50 this year. That is a 40% + dues increase. Although I have been a member since 1979 I have chosen not to renew my membership for 2015. TCA is just not a good value and their magazine is skinny; about 1/5th the size of Classic Toy trains to which I subscribe. My income has not risen at all let alone 40% so I can not support anyone raising prices this much. I am of the opinion that if this increase holds it will signal a sharp decline in TCA membership. Next years membership numbers may be a telling story. I was just curious how other TCA members perceive this exorbitant dues increase?
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Posted by BigAl 956 on Friday, April 11, 2014 4:21 PM

In the most recent National News Robert Obara spells out the reasons for having to raise the dues and it's hard to argue against him.

Yes 40% all at once is a huge hit but the dues have been where they are for decades. Yes, you personally did not see a 40% raise this year but  I'll bet your income has gone up considerably since the dues were last set at $35. .Look at the price of everything from postage to electricity and you'll see how fortunate we've been having the TCA keep dues down as long as it has.

But membership is starting to decline. Let's face it ours is an organization with an elder member core and the demographics will catch up to us all eventually. I suspect the magazine and Interchange track will be the next casualties. With postage and printing what it is I would assume these will all move to e- Publications in the not too distant future.

In conclusion if you do not attend the meets or conventions and are only in this for the magazine You can do better elsewhere. But have you checked the price of CTT magazine lately? It's almost as much as a TCA membership.

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Posted by sir james I on Friday, April 11, 2014 4:34 PM

TCA expected at least a 10% loss due to the increase. Of course they also know some of us will pay because of York. When I decide I don't need York, I won't need TCAs $50. dues either.

S.J.

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Posted by cwburfle on Friday, April 11, 2014 5:10 PM

While your comment about a forty percent increase is true, it is also misleading. The dues were raised from thirty-five to fifty dollars. That is a fifteen dollar increase. This is a hobby where a piece of plain track is approximately four dollars, a remote switch is over seventy-five dollars, and a plain car (rolling stock) starts at thirty dollars and increases rapidly from there.

There will be a few people who drop out of the TCA.
IMHO, most will stay.

IMHO, dropping the two signature rule will have a much bigger impact on membership numbers than the dues increase. As the rules are currently defined, folks can join the TCA when they plan to attend a TCA members only function, and let their membership lapse during the years they do not place to attend,
(we all know that there are a significant number of people who only belong so they can attend the private meets).

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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Friday, April 11, 2014 7:41 PM

I hardily recommend that the TCA read the book, "Race for Relevance".  From my vantage point, the TCA has many interesting problems especially with poor communications.  The most basic question that needs to be asked is "What value does a membership provide?"  Most organizations with decreasing memberships have superficial answers to this question and they continue to slide down the hill to irrelevance. SoapBox Stepping down now. Big Smile

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Posted by M. Mitchell Marmel on Saturday, April 12, 2014 6:48 AM

FWIW, this problem is not limited to TCA;  the NRHS, for example, is undergoing similar issues. 

The problem, as I see it, is what I call the "10 to 40" gap.  Kids like trains up to about age 10 or so, when most drop the hobby in favor of more modern activities such as video games.  Once they get more settled in their 30s and 40s, they may return to the trains of their youth...but what's needed is something to keep 'em interested in the between years. 

Mitch

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:08 AM

dlagrua
TCA Dues now $50.00. What will be the impact?

I will be a member of a very exclusive club once you all drop out.

Rob

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:23 AM

If the TCA wants to make additional money there's and easy and immediate solution:

Open York and other TCA train meets to the general public, don't keep it members-only.  I believe others have been saying this for a long time now.

Why it's members-only I've no idea.  Security?  Come on, it's a train show, not an atomic bomb market.

The plain fact of the matter more people have to be gotten interested in this wonderful hobby.  I know there's trouble coming when I go to a local train meet and I'm "The Kid" at the age of sixty!

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:43 AM

Firelock76

If the TCA wants to make additional money there's and easy and immediate solution:

Open York and other TCA train meets to the general public, don't keep it members-only.

And charge $50 admission plus registration to the first meet you attend, the rest for the next year are are registration only.

Rob

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Posted by dlagrua on Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:15 AM
If you honesty feel that a 40% increase in TCA dues is fair why not just send them more of your money? Maybe train collectors will end up sending the TCA anything that they ask for, but maybe not. If in 2015 the TCA membership plunges (as I expect it will) that will tell the story. If the membership or revenue grows that will prove me wrong. Lets wait and see who is right but I will take bets that my prediction is correct.
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Posted by phillyreading on Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:36 AM
I complaint I heard from a TCA member here in south Florida is that the TCA is charging members for entrance to a TCA train show. TCA members now pay $3.00 and non TCA members pay $5.00. My concern is paying $50.00 for the national dues and then another $12.00 for the regional/southern TCA dues, so I dropped out of TCA a few years ago due to my finances going under water. I can not blame the TCA for raising the dues but everybody has some financial problems down here in south Florida currently.
Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:41 AM

dlagrua
If you honesty feel that a 40% increase in TCA dues is fair why not just send them more of your money?

Members that make this kind of statement are the kind of member that will be weeded out. Rather, think not what your TCA can do for you — ask what you can do for your TCA.

Rob

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Posted by Rob412 on Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:04 AM
While the dues have gone up so have the utilities, maintenance costs, necessary improvements and supplies needed to run the organization. For perspective the $15 increase is about 4 gallons of gas which is not enough to get me round trip to a TCA meet. Fifty dollars is ONE dinner for 2 at a reasonable restaurant. Everyone will ask the same question "What is it worth to ME". While enrollment may drop off- if there are not enough funds it will not matter since the TCA would become a fallen flag itself.
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:12 AM

Firelock76

If the TCA wants to make additional money there's and easy and immediate solution:

Open York and other TCA train meets to the general public, don't keep it members-only.  I believe others have been saying this for a long time now.

Why it's members-only I've no idea.  Security?  Come on, it's a train show, not an atomic bomb market.

The plain fact of the matter more people have to be gotten interested in this wonderful hobby.  I know there's trouble coming when I go to a local train meet and I'm "The Kid" at the age of sixty!

 

I believe that the reason York is members only, is because if they opened it to the public, then all the little mom and pop sellers would have to register with the state of Pennsylvania and collect sales tax on all sales made at the show. 

That frankly would go over worse than all of you people bitching about the first dues increase in several years. 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:16 AM

dlagrua
If in 2015 the TCA membership plunges (as I expect it will) that will tell the story. If the membership or revenue grows that will prove me wrong. Lets wait and see who is right but I will take bets that my prediction is correct.

 

I don't see the TCA membership plunging just because of a dues increase that has been well explained to the members.&nbsp

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Posted by cwburfle on Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:20 AM

I complaint I heard from a TCA member here in south Florida is that the TCA is charging members for entrance to a TCA train show.

The national organization is not charging anything to attend your local TCA show. Its the local TCA folks that decide whether to charge admission.

Another poster mentioned opening the show to the public.
First and foremost is the sales tax issue. As has already been written, every tableholder would need a tax number to participate if the show was open to the public. No big deal to those only interested in the dealer halls. For the rest of us, that would be a big deal, and would be the death of the show.
Secondly, there are many people who admit to only belonging to the TCA so they can attend the York Train show. Membership would certainly drop if it was not a requirement to attending.

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Posted by mersenne6 on Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:41 AM

Nothing - not a thing. 

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Posted by lionelsoni on Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:28 PM

Excuse my whining and bitching about the incivility of posters who violate the forum rules:

"- No personal attacks or name-calling. Please keep conversations cordial. We understand that there will be differences of opinion. Please don’t let those differences turn ugly. Accept that others might not have your same point of view, don’t sink to personal attacks. Nothing is gained by doing so."

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Bob Keller on Saturday, April 12, 2014 1:00 PM
Let's keep it civil, it's okay to be on either side of the issue without a need to get snarky.

Bob Keller

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 12, 2014 1:37 PM

ADCX Rob

Firelock76

If the TCA wants to make additional money there's and easy and immediate solution:

Open York and other TCA train meets to the general public, don't keep it members-only.

And charge $50 admission plus registration to the first meet you attend, the rest for the next year are are registration only.

You're joking, right?

Another poster mentioned "mom-and-pop" sellers registering with the state of Pennsylvania for sales tax purposes.  If they're working shows like Greenbergs or others that occur in Pennsylvania (or Virginia or Maryland or New Jersey or elswhere for that matter)  they're registered already.  This shouldn't be an issue.

I should add there's a TCA affiliate club here in Virginia that opens its shows to the public.  I should know, I'm one of the public.

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Posted by cwburfle on Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:29 PM

Another poster mentioned "mom-and-pop" sellers registering with the state of Pennsylvania for sales tax purposes.  If they're working shows like Greenbergs or others that occur in Pennsylvania (or Virginia or Maryland or New Jersey or elswhere for that matter)  they're registered already.  This shouldn't be an issue.

 

The show is supposed to be about fellow members having tables to buy, sell and/or trade. Many of these people don't set up at other shows in Pennsylvania, and do not have tax numbers.


Even if they do shows in their own home territory, such as Virginia, Maryland, or New Jersey, their home tax numbers are no good in Pennsylvania. There is no reciprocal agreements between states on tax numbers.

 

 

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:39 PM

It is great to have all sorts of ideas from non-members of how to change the TCA.  I suggest that if you want to work towards changing the rules of the TCA that you join the TCA and work from the inside instead of the outside.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:40 PM

OK Mr. Burfle, fair enough, you made a good point.  Just how closely swap meets (private or otherwise) are monitored by state tax people is an open question, so I won't go there.

So how about this:  As I understand it the York meet involves several buildings.  I've never been so I don't know for certain.  How about segregating the private sellers in one or more buildings and saving the licensed dealers and exhibitors for the main building.  Allow open admission to that building only.  This gets the general public in without complications while leaving the informal non-professional sellers in peace.

Workable?

There has to be some solution here.  I mean, it's easier to get into gun show than it is to get into the York show!  There's nothing lethal being sold at train shows!

Well, MAYBE if you got 50 ZW transformers wired together that MIGHT be deadly....

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Posted by cwburfle on Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:49 PM

Sorry, your idea has been suggested many times before.


 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Saturday, April 12, 2014 3:01 PM

Firelock76

ADCX Rob

Firelock76

If the TCA wants to make additional money there's and easy and immediate solution:

Open York and other TCA train meets to the general public, don't keep it members-only.

And charge $50 admission plus registration to the first meet you attend, the rest for the next year are are registration only.

You're joking, right?

No joke. That's how it is right now.

Rob

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Saturday, April 12, 2014 3:04 PM

And you get a free 1 year TCA membership as a bonus.

Rob

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 12, 2014 3:47 PM

cwburfle

Sorry, your idea has been suggested many times before.


 

Point taken, I'm sure it has, and by some TCA members themselves no doubt.

Look at it this way, since this thread has gone on to a second page already indicates to me there's people who care very strongly about this issue, especially when it's a very issue concerning the hobby's survival.  If the hobby's to survive, or at least survive to provide us with all the variety we enjoy now, TCA and other like organizations have got to get aggressive in getting the word out.  The local organizations and clubs seem to get it.  I'm not sure the national organization does.

Then there's the Amherst Railroad Society in Massachusetts that holds a massive train show once a year.  Just about everyone who's anyone exhibits there.  That show's open to the public and it's quite successful.

I could have called it Tax-a-chusetts but I'm trying to be nice here.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, April 12, 2014 4:12 PM

Firelock76

If the TCA wants to make additional money there's and easy and immediate solution:

Open York and other TCA train meets to the general public, don't keep it members-only.  I believe others have been saying this for a long time now.

Why it's members-only I've no idea.  Security?  Come on, it's a train show, not an atomic bomb market.

The plain fact of the matter more people have to be gotten interested in this wonderful hobby.  I know there's trouble coming when I go to a local train meet and I'm "The Kid" at the age of sixty!

 

Regardless of if York is open to the public or not, it would not raise a dime for the National TCA.  The York meet is organized by the Eastern Division TCA; therefore, the money raised by the York shows go to the Eastern Division TCA and not the National TCA. 

 

I believe that the only shows that the National TCA sponsor are the National Conventions.

 

Therefore, your argument that opening the York meet and other meets to the public would raise significant funds for the TCA is incorrect.

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Posted by cwburfle on Saturday, April 12, 2014 4:29 PM

Then there's the Amherst Railroad Society in Massachusetts that holds a massive train show once a year.  Just about everyone who's anyone exhibits there.  That show's open to the public and it's quite successful.

I am quite familiar with that show having attended since it was in a single hall on one day only.
It is a great show, but it isn't York.
The show is designed to be an open show, largely catering to the general public and Model Railroaders.
Its worth the two hour drive (one way) for me. But I wouldn't drive much longer.


The York show caters to members of the TCA. While more and more folks who consider themselves operators have joined the TCA, a large portion of the folks who belong to the TCA are collectors.
I drive around six and a half hours (one way) to attend.

Again, the Amhurst Train Show is a great event, this post isn't intended to take anything away from it.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 12, 2014 5:38 PM

Points taken Messers Nationwide and Burfle.  I think I've said all I need to anyway, others can take it from here.

My brother-in-law's been to the Amherst show and loved it.  I've got to get there myself some time.

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