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Classic Toy Trains Forums - Lionel vs. American Flyer

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Posted by wallyworld on Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:17 PM

What does this have to do with subdividing the forum by gauge? As for your problem, try Ebay. As far as kids and trains in the future, why worry about it? 

Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:13 PM

ADCX Rob

teledoc
Gargraves does in fact sell 5 rail track, listed under specialty track; part # 501-201,

Just as long as you realize that this product has no rails spaced for "S" Gauge.

yes but its for something else 

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Posted by overlandflyer on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 9:03 PM

Ogaugeoverlord

Don't know why this old thread was brought back to life, but we won't be sub-dividing.

how about simply fixing the tag cloud then?  that is one way to handle topics, but so little space is dedicated to the window, it doesn't even get past  "A" anymore. long ago i tried to use this poorly handled feature by creating the "A Marx fan" tag, but the management here somehow had a problem with that eventually barring that tag from inclusion in the cloud.

it's not rocket science, but it does take understanding the concept.  if the webmaster would do a little homework, the tag cloud, along with proper use of tags by posters, would handle sub categories as its designed to.

good luck, right?
cheers...gary
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:09 PM

teledoc
Gargraves does in fact sell 5 rail track, listed under specialty track; part # 501-201,

Just as long as you realize that this product has no rails spaced for "S" Gauge.

Rob

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Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:09 PM

ADCX Rob

rtraincollector
Tim here's another way to combine both O and S at the same time. I bet a lot don't know about But sure some do. Gargraves offers a 37" 5 rail flex track for O & S so you could either on it. #210-401

The O/S GarGraves track is 4 rail, not 5 rail.

Oops my bust lol  must of been reading two different type at same time Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by thesiding on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:08 PM

OK Now  Time to throw in a Monkey Wrench here.   AND this can become a seperate topic as well

                         Flyer vs Lionel O vs S S vs HO the list is endless

BUT IN THE FUTURE WHO will be buying this stuff twenty years from now ANY gauge ??????????

Still go to a many shows as I can Auctions E bay  Flea Market and the good ole Garage Yard Tag Sale

and no one is buying this for the younger set regardless of gauge  MOST of the time

Had one bit of hope while selling stuff at a Church Sale

Two seperate sales two different children One specifically asking vendors "Where's the Trains?"

And last time a kid buying HO his name              Lionel

Even so             The future........................................................................................

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Posted by teledoc on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:39 PM

This is a picture of the actual HOGE 5 rail track with the lockon attached.  All the other HOGE trains used 3 rail.

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Posted by teledoc on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:28 PM

Gargraves does in fact sell 5 rail track, listed under specialty track; part # 501-201, and also 5 rail trestle track which is much narrower than the 501-201 track.  The only train that I know of that actually needs 5 rail track is a HOGE Shovelnose locomotive.  It was produced in 1935 as the Shovelnose Streamliner with 3 cars.  The extra 2 rails (copper bar) are for the Bell and Buzzer inside the locomotive.  I own this set, complete with track lockon (5 contact) and HOGE Transformer.  I basically have the complete set, minus the set box.

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Posted by Nobles1 on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:36 PM
Yes, Rich I agree with you. I am new to the forum and was surprised that the scales are not divided up. It can't be too difficult, "O Gauge Railroading forum is divided up by gauge and interest. While I am mainly a flyer guy I do some fiddling with O gauge also, guess I am somewhat of a generalist. At any rate, it would be easier when I am looking for a thread on a subject to just look through either Flyer, Lionel, or Standard gauge subjects. Come on Kalmbach, It cannot be that hard!
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 2:33 PM

rtraincollector
Tim here's another way to combine both O and S at the same time. I bet a lot don't know about But sure some do. Gargraves offers a 37" 5 rail flex track for O & S so you could either on it. #210-401

The O/S GarGraves track is 4 rail, not 5 rail.

Rob

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Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:50 PM

horned-frog

Rich,

I just found a set that brings together both Lionel and American Flyer in a way few collectors consider: Using up excess inventory to complete cheapie sets! As we all know, some of Lionel's most desirable components can be found in what originally sold as bottom of the line inexpensive Scout sets.

Consider this unique find: American Flyer set 20120 was produced in 1960 and included an Atlantic 21161 steam locomotive that only ran forward only along with Pikemaster MKT boxcar, AF caboose, PRR gondola and NH stake flat. Certainly nothing special. The one I found includes the much more desirable Prestone Car Care 21161 along with the hard-to-find green T&P gondola with large lettering. Not even the much more desirable uncataloged Prestone Set No. 20188 includes that gondola!

Tim

Tim here's another way to combine both O and S at the same time. I bet a lot don't know about But sure some do. Gargraves offers a 37" 5 rail flex track for O & S so you could either on it. #210-401

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Posted by Bob Keller on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:49 PM

Don't know why this old thread was brought back to life, but we won't be sub-dividing.

Bob Keller

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Posted by wallyworld on Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:44 AM

There is not enough traffic here to warrant subdivisions.It seems traffic has gone down regardless of the season. A lot of familiar names vanished. The coffee pot thread is busier than all the rest combined and it isnt exclusively devoted to trains. Go figure.

I agree with Bob.

Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.

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Posted by horned-frog on Tuesday, July 29, 2014 6:22 PM

Rich,

I just found a set that brings together both Lionel and American Flyer in a way few collectors consider: Using up excess inventory to complete cheapie sets! As we all know, some of Lionel's most desirable components can be found in what originally sold as bottom of the line inexpensive Scout sets.

Consider this unique find: American Flyer set 20120 was produced in 1960 and included an Atlantic 21161 steam locomotive that only ran forward only along with Pikemaster MKT boxcar, AF caboose, PRR gondola and NH stake flat. Certainly nothing special. The one I found includes the much more desirable Prestone Car Care 21161 along with the hard-to-find green T&P gondola with large lettering. Not even the much more desirable uncataloged Prestone Set No. 20188 includes that gondola!

Tim

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Posted by AF53 on Saturday, January 29, 2011 2:38 PM

Rich - First let me start by mentioning what I own. American Flyer in 0 and S gauges, Lionel in HO and 0 gauges, G and N scale Bachmann and Marx. Yes, you might call me confused. But I'm sure I'm not alone. The American Flyer S, Lionel HO and Marx I got as a child. The rest over the past 20 years. I am 53 years old. My main passion is American Flyer S then 0 gauges.

That being said I'm ok with they way things are. I agree with most of the posters in that I learn from both of the dominant topics (American Flyer and Lionel, sprinlked in with some Marx).

Good topic with many opinions casted, thanks for the idea.

Ray   

Ray

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Posted by traindaddy1 on Saturday, January 29, 2011 2:14 PM

Rich: Your thread, like all good threads, raises questions and opens dialogue.

After reading some of the replies, I would agree with, perhaps the majority, that the present Forum design is fine.

Then I got to thinking why am I a Lionel Postwar guy and not an American Flyer guy.  After all, the look of the two rails, for this former "HO" enthusiast, is more realistic.   The answer, for me, is quite apparent.  When I decided to leave the smaller size, I did consider A.F. but  discovered that there were more items available within my budget and they were more readily accessible with Lionel.  Perhaps others have experienced like situations and thus the predominance of Lionel owners.

Getting back to your original post......I read all the postings whether they are Lionel or Flyer or if they refer to a specific question or problem with an item that I don't own simply because I use the Forum as a learning tool.  I really enjoy the hobby and the information.  

Thanks for the opportunity to reply.........Again, "good" thread!

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, January 29, 2011 5:57 AM

rtraincollector

So I agree with the others in please leave it as is. Theres so much info that can be shared both ways.

I guess what amuses me most about several of these responses is the concern that a separate forum for American Flyer would result in the total loss of information and the sharing of ideas.

On the MRR forum, which I frequent, there are 4 separate forums: General Discussion, Layouts and Layout Building, Electronics and DCC, and Prototype Information.  The first three interest me, so I visit each of them.  The fourth holds no interest for me, so I skip it.   But, it is just a click away if I want it.

Things would work the same way with an American Flyer forum.  If you are interested in Lionel, click on the separate forum. It would be that easy.  Share if you want to, skip it if you don't.  Personally, when I know the thread is about Lionel, I skip it.  I have nothing against Lionel.  My brother-in-law and my liefelong buddy both have Lionel layouts. I just have no interest in it.  But, the information is still there if I want it.

If fewer forums would result in a greater sharing of information and ideas, why don't we just have one big forum?  No subdivisions at all.

Rich

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, January 29, 2011 5:44 AM

Penny Trains

 richhotrain:

Shame on me for even bringing something like this up.

Rich

 

I wouldn't go that far!  I'm sure the question comes up in everybody's mind sooner or later, you just said what many of us were thinking!  That takes guts considering how easily the subject could get inflammatory!

Becky

Becky,

Actually, I was being sarcastic.  But, I appreciate your supportive words.

Rich

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, January 28, 2011 7:43 PM

I mainly collect O but do have some G and standard gauge also but i enjoy reading the ones titled AF or S as theres a lot of good info there too. at first i thought by your title was another pro AF negative Lionel but i see your point to a small degree as i also would like to keep it as it is as i would probably miss some good tips because being O I would not be looking in the AF part.

I have even thought of getting some S gauge be it AF or a few of the other now offered just to have some but not sure what is worth getting and what isn't but right now as I put in the coffee pot I have been put on double train buying restriction for a while lol she jumped to double right away gotta love her thou .

So I agree with the others in please leave it as is. Theres so much info that can be shared both ways.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, January 28, 2011 7:37 PM

richhotrain

Shame on me for even bringing something like this up.

Rich

I wouldn't go that far!  I'm sure the question comes up in everybody's mind sooner or later, you just said what many of us were thinking!  That takes guts considering how easily the subject could get inflammatory!

Becky

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Posted by balidas on Friday, January 28, 2011 7:23 PM

I like the forum as it is. Even tho my interests are in postwar Lionel and Marx, I enjoy following Timboys progress, as well as the other member who now is going to change his s scale layout. I enjoy reading Northwoods Flyer's immense thread and pretty much all other posts in this forum. In actuality, this is the only model train forum I visit.

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Posted by Joe Hohmann on Friday, January 28, 2011 7:47 AM

If you want "divided", go to the OGR Forum...they have separate sections for "S", Scale, and even York! Of course, the OGR Forum is far more active, daily posting-wise, than this one, so it may make more sense.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 28, 2011 5:57 AM

MichRR714

I agree that the last thing this CTT forum needs is sub-dividing.  How hard is it to just place "AF" or something in the title of the thread?  I really think even bringing something like this up just leads to erosion to civility on the forum.  "discrimination"  I don't think so.

First of all, given the overall reaction to this thread, I am sorry that I even posted it in the first place.  Obviously, no one agrees with me that a separate area of the CTT forum for American Flyer trains would be welcome.

Second, after raising the white flag of surrender, I was determined not to respond any further to this thread.  But, now, I cannot resist.

Mich says that "the last thing this CTT forum needs is sub-dividing".  Why is that?  The only other forum that is not subdivided is the CT forum and that is because it is devoted to commentary about "classic trains".  Kinda hard to subdivide that topic any further.  But, the Garden Railway forum has 4 subdivisions.  The MRR forum has 5 subdivisions.   The Trains Magazine forum has 6 subdivisions.  The Trains.com forum has 5 subdivisions, including one for Kids and Model Railroading.

".....even bringing something like this up just leads to erosion to civility on the forum" ?  

Geez, Mich, I didn't suggest that we build a bonfire and burn all Lionel equipment.  My only point was that a subdivision would faciltate sorting through AF threads and those that are not.  Sure, every one who starts a thread could include American Flyer or Lionel in the subject title, but they don't.  I just find it hard to believe that Lionel guys have any more interest in American Flyer than American Flyer guys have in Lionel.  It's not a civility thing, it is an area of interest thing.

Shame on me for even bringing something like this up.

Rich

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Posted by MichRR714 on Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:04 PM

I agree that the last thing this CTT forum needs is sub-dividing.  How hard is it to just place "AF" or something in the title of the thread?  I really think even bringing something like this up just leads to erosion to civility on the forum.  "discrimination"  I don't think so.

Charlie a.k.a. MichiganRailRoad714 (Charter Member TTC)      

 

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Posted by aflyer on Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:58 PM

I agree with the previous response to this post, I thought we were headed into a who's bigger and better thread.

When I was ten years old it was American Flyer VS Lionel, when I was 20 it was Chevy VS Ford. And now it is old American Flyer VS new American flyer, made by Lionel, S-Helper, American Models, and I can't keep track of them all.

 So IMHO if we all added Flyer or Lionel, S or O, or some other hint in the title it would be a very cool addition.  I think however I would still be inclined to open some O or Lionel threads as there are some shared topics, for us all to enjoy.

Thank you,

AFlyer, I mean George 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, January 27, 2011 6:55 PM

I agree, I collect and operate model / toy trains.  If I had the space and money, I'd collect and operate the 1 to 1 scale toys too.

What I really resent is when generalized statements are made about "what kind of forum this is" or "you'd have better luck posting in forum "X" because this forum is mostly..." and stuff like that.  I realize that people are more likely than not just trying to be helpful, but I also realize that human nature is often about making incorrect assumptions.  The term "Classic Toy Train" doesn't refer to any specific era, but a lot of people like to infer that it means only post-war Lionel or pre-war Ives or etc. etc. etc.

I wasn't around until November 6, 1969.  By that time, Lionel wasn't Lionel anymore, Flyer wasn't Gilbert and Ives was long gone.  So the few trains I saw in stores during my youth were MPC (and let's face it, MPC has gotten a bad rap for years).  And since I wasn't around between 1880-whatever when the first toy trains started to be mass produced and the time when Lionel was sold, I have no loyalty to any train manufacturer or scale.

Anyhoo, back to the topic at hand.  When I saw the tiltle of this thread, my first thought was "Ding! Ding! Ding!  It's the grudge match of the CENTURY!  Let's get ready to rummblle!"  It's been going on since Gilbert introduced S-Gauge and it will continue long after we're all dead and buried.  Fact is in the 21st century Lionel owns American Flyer (and Ives) and Lionel isn't owned by the Lionel who made those classic toy trains.  You know, the ones we like to label as "classic" even if they aint so classic.  My 1984 Dodge Aries would be considered a "classic" , if I still had it, simply because it would be more than 25 years old.  But who would really consider a Dodge Aries that ate carborators like potato chips a classic car?  (I had that carb rebuilt at least 7 times in the 4 years I owned the thing!)  Since Ives got rolled into Lionel, and Flyer did too, I guess you could say that Lionel won.  But then you have to remember that Lionel itself capitulated to market forces and the Lionel of today isn't Cowen's company.  So who really won the war?

Nobody.

Lionel, American Flyer, O gauge, S gauge, etc., etc., etc. exist today for one reason.  Because we the collectors (and operators) refuse to let them die.

Becky

P.S. I'm gonna close with a dirty word! OGR

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 27, 2011 6:38 PM

Hey, I am on a major roll.   LOL

I believe that it is now something like 20-0 in favor of leaving everything alone.    Crying   Crying   Crying

I'll fix all of you. Once I take over Kalmbach Publications, I will create a separate Forum for American Flyer.   Laugh    Laugh    Laugh

Rich HO Train

 

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Posted by mgbbob on Thursday, January 27, 2011 5:32 PM

Leave it alone.  I like reading all the posts.  If you want to get picky I have prewar and post war.  I have latch couplers and modern couplers.  I just read something on KD couplers.  Half the fun it seeing what is out there.

I have HO, N, O, and Standard.  I wish I had some S and may have some in the future.  More room, and more money..........Not a problem.

 

Bob

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Posted by wyomingscout on Thursday, January 27, 2011 4:39 PM

Seems most are labeled.  Just look:  American Flier layout, Lionel Prewar 244, Atlas 21 Century 0-27, Super 0 dilemma, Lionel 2011 RTR catalog, Lionel 022 switches, Mystery Set (Atlas).

I don't see a problem.

wyomingscout

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