How much power do we actually need?

[SleeperN06]

Since Doug was kind enough to show his family with the trains, I found a photo of my grandson working our Christmas trains.

 

[SleeperN06]

bfskinner

PS You also asked if they was a way to keep the kiddiwinks from using too much throttle and driving the trains through the wall. The easiest is to place a self-adhesive rubber bumper behind the throlle handle to limit its travel. There has been a recent post, with pix, over on the OGR forum that is easy, simple and very nearly foolproof. It uses relatively heavy steel strapping. I'll try to find it but I'd wager you could design your own now that you know it has already been done.

Found it. Try the link and scroll down to the pix;

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/57660482/m/643106403?r=643106403#643106403

I didn’t get to read the whole link this morning because I was running late for work, but now I see what you were showing me.

I built one of those awhile back myself.  I was posting in a couple of forums and forgot which one it was in. Anyway this is my version. I have since painted it and I had to use a little longer screw because I ran out of adjustment on one side. This way I can make adjustments as I add or remove cars.

My 4-4-2 has gotten faster and faster even with 10 cars and two of them are geared for moving animals and such. I wrote about making the mistake of oiling it with sewing machine oil, well I finally got the oil cleaned up and it really moves. I was going to add the diodes so that I could use a shorter screw and have more play in the throttle.

 

[bfskinner]

SleeperN06

I did not realize that the defect was related only to the accessory side.  

Quoted in part only.

That's not quite correct,  but you're getting there. The problem is not confined to the accessory side, but it only manifests itself when both the throttle and the accessory posts are in use at the same time, and then only in certain circumstances; but when it does happen, it will be trouble. 

Part of the problem was that the Owner's Manuals for the original CW-80's were as screwed-up as the transformer itself. They were  (at least in part) unclear, internally inconsistent and just plain wrong. I think it has been corrected online (not absolutely certain) but those who rely on the paper versions of the original Owner's Manuals will find absolute contradictions between the hook-up diagrams and the text.

Following these early manuals to the letter, could result in a blown-fuse, and because the fuse is inaccessable to most operators, the device dies the first time it was turned on, in far too many cases. When the fuse blows, the device looks, sounds and effectively is DEAD. That's my biggest gripe. Just imagine how much frustration and bitterness could have been avoided by an easily-replaceable fuse.

As I've said previously. Lionel would promptly replace such "dead" transformers, but there was little to prevent the operator from hooking up the replacement the same way as he did the first one, and thereby killing it as well. (Some, it turns out, really were DOA, but by no means all.)

That's why you saw so many bitter posts of the type "I've had an original and two replacements" and none of them has worked," whille so many others folks, who apparently didn't hook up both the throttle and the accessory outputs simultaneously reported that theirs "worked just fine -- never had any problems with it."

A number of  new owners posted that because they had heard "bad things 'bout the CW-80" they never even hooked it up to their track. Instead, they took it to their workshop and tried to measure the output voltage with an ordinary household voltmeter, generally without even a token "load" on it. We know that won't work, but they concluded that the device was dead (even though the green light and the fan were on) and promptly trashed it without ever seeing whether it would push a train around a track. Others, having read all the confusing crap on the various forums, posted that they were "afraid" even to take theirs out of the box. And so on, and on, and on, with every negative comment being posted over and over again, so that a few drops became a torrent.

Just remember that  you have not one but two of the original, non-Revised versions, so you need to be a careful. how you connect them if you go beyond using either the throttle or the accessory side all by itself. With yours, as we have seen, posts A and B are common, Commons.(or "grounds" as some folks refer to them) can always be connected together without fear, but connecting the "hot" posts* together, either right at the transformer or anywhere out on the layout, will not work and may well damage the transformer. (It would be very much like taking a post-war ZW and wiring the A and D posts together. That's a no-no!)

The terminology, which works well in DC circuitry, fails us with AC. "Signal", "hot" "power" "red"  :"A" "black" " U" "plus" "+" "positive" are all terms that can be unreliable under some circumstances. This confusion is by no means confined to Lionel equipment only.

 

.

  

 

[Wes Whitmore]

I currently only have MTH Z-1000s.  I have one to run the trains, and 1 for accessories.  Sooner or later I will get a Z-4000.  As for now, 1 Z-1000 has enough power for at least 3 MTH PS2 engines running full sound and full smoke on my layout at quick speeds (50+ SMPH on the DCS handheld).  The PS2 loco's don't seem to be too power hungry at all though, and I'm probably using every watt that the Z-1000 can give.  If it fails, I'll get something bigger.  I already had them with my starter kits.

Wes

[SleeperN06]

bfskinner

I don't like it one iota more than you do, but you might also remember that at the time Lionel was in the middle of an enormous lawsuit that all but killed the company.

Early on you asked how much power was needed, and noted that your (original version as it turned out) supplied more than you need. It seems to me that you answered your own question, for the time being at least. All I use are two early version CW-80's that just won't quit -- one for my one-at-a-time train layout and some accessories, and the other dedicated to  powering additional accssories.

As long as you don't try to power certain accessories from the accessory side of the transformer that also powers the track, you will never see the "defect" that is inherent in the early CW-80's. The issue will never rear its ugly head, so why not enjoy what you've got while you expand your knowledge about the hobby? Many, many members have responded to my posts about the "factory defect" in the early version by ridiculing my concerns; and claiming (rightly) that they've never had a moment's problems with theirs.

You are right, my transformers do work well and I would never even have known about it if it wasn’t brought up. I have never used the accessories, but I would have to power a Santa hand car on a separate track if I would have known about the accessory voltage being adjustable.

I did not realize that the defect was related only to the accessory side.  

Thanks for the link, I got to go to work now, but I’ll check it out when I get home.

[SleeperN06]

challenger3980

 

JohnnyB,

  I think that you are seeing more of a problem than there really was. The CW was designed as a starter set transformer, and a lot of the people that had them, used them to power a simple loop, and never realized that there were things that should have been built differently, than they were. They were not a shock or fire hazard, or any thing dangerous, there were some things that could get frustrating or confusing though. I have given several arly CW-80's to Family and Friends, mainly for Christmas Tree Trains, a simple loop, and maybe a few lighted buildings, and they are great for that kind of use, and nobody has had any trouble at all with them. I even offered some a choice between the CW-80 and an MTH Z-1000, and EVERY ONE chose the CW-80, because it LOOKED RIGHT under the tree. I have also found that for younger operators, the CW-80 is easier to use than the MTH Z-Series controllers.
Doug

Hey Doug, those are very nice photos. That’s what it has always been about, the kids. And you are probably correct, I am making too much out of it. My grandson loves it. If it weren’t for the kids, I don’t know if I ever wood have gotten into trains. I have always loved trains and I get excited every time I see one, but to go through all the trouble and EXPENSE is definitely for the kids. Don’t get me wrong, I’m having a pretty good time myself.

My brother-in-law has worked for the railroad 30 years and gets to play with the real thing. He has had trains for 20 to 25 years and started out like me with just a Christmas train for the kids and now has pretty nice layout going on now. His kids are grown now with no grandchildren and he admits that it’s not the same anymore.

 

[Berk765]

A power brick is a transformer without throttle handles. It simply delivers the "transformed" current to the controller where the throttle output is and where the whistle and bell buttons are.

[bfskinner]

SleeperN06

I’m still a little upset that the newer Polar Express made in 2005 doesn’t have the revision. I can understand the older one because they want to use up their supplies, but there is no excuse for the Polar Express.

I don't like it one iota more than you do, but you might also remember that at the time Lionel was in the middle of an enormous lawsuit that all but killed the company.

Early on you asked how much power was needed, and noted that your (original version as it turned out) supplied more than you need. It seems to me that you answered your own question, for the time being at least. All I use are two early version CW-80's that just won't quit -- one for my one-at-a-time train layout and some accessories, and the other dedicated to  powering additional accssories.

As long as you don't try to power certain accessories from the accessory side of the transformer that also powers the track, you will never see the "defect" that is inherent in the early CW-80's. The issue will never rear its ugly head, so why not enjoy what you've got while you expand your knowledge about the hobby? Many, many members have responded to my posts about the "factory defect" in the early version by ridiculing my concerns; and claiming (rightly) that they've never had a moment's problems with theirs.

If you had no spare tire in your car, but your 4 regular tires were so good that you could likely go for years without ever needing a spare, would you get all exercised? So would I -- it's a safety issue; but there's a big difference with toy trains. You could be in a world of trouble with no spare tire; but with the early CW-80's you could always upgrade to a revised one if and when you need to. They might even have something better by then. That's exactly my situation. For four years now I have waited for my early CW-80's to die so I could replace them with "G" versions while I still had an income. I can't kill them with a stick, as it turns out. The pair of them work just fine, and $$$ is not burning a hole in my pocket.

The fact is that the early CW-80's met their specs quite well, as a rule. A few of them arrived dead, some died early on, and some were killed by their operators who didn't understand then and/or wouldn't read the manual. I kept warning them with dozens and dozens of posts, largely to no avail.

Lionel never has acknowledged that the original versions were "defective." They even went so far as to state in the Owner's Manuals of certain accessories that you couldn't use them with a CW-80, as if it were the accessory's fault. Nonsense: of course you could use them but it took an annoying work-around that caused its own problems; or, you could use a revised CW-80 when they finally came out.

So, they routinely replaced the original version models that failed during the warranty period. Those that didn't die, or make noises, or whatever, met their specs and therefore, from Lionel's point of view, were not defective. I disagreed then, and you disagree now, but that's the way it was. I don't think Lionel could have done much else when the original decision in the lawsuit went against them to the tune of 44 million dollars plus. The history is interesting, but the point is moot. Time to move on..

In a phrase, Lionel never publically acknowledged the early factory-defects, but eventually fixed them. How do you go about fixing something that you say doesn't exist? Quietly. Very quietly.

PS You also asked if they was a way to keep the kiddiwinks from using too much throttle and driving the trains through the wall. The easiest is to place a self-adhesive rubber bumper behind the throlle handle to limit its travel. There has been a recent post, with pix, over on the OGR forum that is easy, simple and very nearly foolproof. It uses relatively heavy steel strapping. I'll try to find it but I'd wager you could design your own now that you know it has already been done.

Found it. Try the link and scroll down to the pix;

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/57660482/m/643106403?r=643106403#643106403

.

 

[challenger3980]

SleeperN06

I’m still a little upset that the newer Polar Express made in 2005 doesn’t have the revision. I can understand the older one because they want to use up their supplies, but there is no excuse for the Polar Express.

 

JohnnyB,

  I think that you are seeing more of a problem than there really was. The CW was designed as a starter set transformer, and a lot of the people that had them, used them to power a simple loop, and never realized that there were things that should have been built differently, than they were. They were not a shock or fire hazard, or any thing dangerous, there were some things that could get frustrating or confusing though. I have given several arly CW-80's to Family and Friends, mainly for Christmas Tree Trains, a simple loop, and maybe a few lighted buildings, and they are great for that kind of use, and nobody has had any trouble at all with them. I even offered some a choice between the CW-80 and an MTH Z-1000, and EVERY ONE chose the CW-80, because it LOOKED RIGHT under the tree. I have also found that for younger operators, the CW-80 is easier to use than the MTH Z-Series controllers.

 

For these guys the CW-80 was definitely the better choice.

 

For this Halloween Display layout, the CW-80 again fit the theme better

 

Doug

 

[Texas Zepher]

SleeperN06

How much power does one actually need

1.21 Jiggawatts should do it.

[SleeperN06]

ADCX Rob

SleeperN06

I’m still a little upset that the newer Polar Express made in 2005 doesn’t have the revision...

 

Lionel was still in denial over this CW-80 matter in 2005.

Rob

I’ve already had one of my CW80s apart to fix a direction switch problem. I wonder if I can correct this problem myself.

[ADCX Rob]

SleeperN06

I’m still a little upset that the newer Polar Express made in 2005 doesn’t have the revision...

 

Lionel was still in denial over this CW-80 matter in 2005.

Rob

[SleeperN06]

lionroar88

JohnnyB,
This is pretty close to what the upper level looks like. I removed the small yard (passenger terminal) and the reversing loop to the left, and moved a couple things around, but for the most part this gives you an idea how long it is:

Oh man, I wish I had something like that. I can only dream, that is nice.

[SleeperN06]

I’m still a little upset that the newer Polar Express made in 2005 doesn’t have the revision. I can understand the older one because they want to use up their supplies, but there is no excuse for the Polar Express.

[Anonymous]

JohnnyB,
This is pretty close to what the upper level looks like. I removed the small yard (passenger terminal) and the reversing loop to the left, and moved a couple things around, but for the most part this gives you an idea how long it is:



This is during construction:


Not sure where the updated pictures are...

[ADCX Rob]

SleeperN06

I also discovered that it impossible to determine the voltages without a load. I have 0 volts between a A&B with a load.

 

I'll go one step further a say it's hard enough to determine the voltages without or with a load, on these power supplies.

Rob

[SleeperN06]

bfskinner

I'm sorry but if what you say is accurate, you have a rare pair there.

Unplug each of your CW-80's from the wall. Disconnect any and all wires from the posts on the back of the transformers. Set your meter to read OHMS (preferably on the zero-to-10 ohms scale) and place the probes on the A and B posts. I think you will find that the meter goes to zero. That means the A and B posts are common, by definition.

You will not get the same results if you test the U and U posts the same way.

With the G models, you will read  zero ohms between the U and U posts. Betcha!

I won't comment on corporate ethics, except to say that many of the folks making decisions during the early days of the CW-80 era no longer work there.

OK, I stand corrected, you are correct. I measured a constant 0.1 ohm on A & B and varying milliamps on U & U. I also discovered that it impossible to determine the voltages without a load. I have 0 volts between a A&B with a load.

 

The common is A&B.

[bfskinner]

I'm sorry but if what you say is accurate, you have a rare pair there.

Unplug each of your CW-80's from the wall. Disconnect any and all wires from the posts on the back of the transformers. Set your meter to read OHMS (preferably on the zero-to-10 ohms scale) and place the probes on the A and B posts. I think you will find that the meter goes to zero. That means the A and B posts are common, by definition.

You will not get the same results if you test the U and U posts the same way.

With the G models, you will read  zero ohms between the U and U posts. Betcha!

I won't comment on corporate ethics, except to say that many of the folks making decisions during the early days of the CW-80 era no longer work there.

[SleeperN06]

bfskinner

[The revised ones used five characters, an Alpha and four numerals, such as G1206 with the "G"  signifying that iit's a revised version, and the numerals signifying that it was  built in December 2006; or G0409, indicating it's a revised version built April, 2009, etc., etc. To date, the "G" is the only alpha-character that has been used, as far as I know.

That’s interesting because I just looked at my CW-80s I can’t find a “G”. One has a “Made in China 0703” and the other has “Made in China 0905”. Using my Volt meter I determined the U and U were in fact the commons on both. They either dropped the “G” in 2003 or they continued to sell the unrevised one at least till 2005. I think it would be criminal to sell an item with a known deficiency two years after the fact.

[bfskinner]

SleeperN06

I’m a little confused about the “G” location.  Do you mean in front of the CW such as Model:GCW-80 or someplace else like as in P/N:G6-14198?

I don't see any other place it could be.

On the bottom of every CW-80 that I have ever seen, there is the phrase  "Made in China." This is  followed by either  four or  five characters.

The early ones use just four numerals; something like 1103; for November, 2003, we think.

The revised ones used five characters, an Alpha and four numerals, such as G1206 with the "G"  signifying that iit's a revised version, and the numerals signifying that it was  built in December 2006; or G0409, indicating it's a revised version built April, 2009, etc., etc. To date, the "G" is the only alpha-character that has been used, as far as I know.

They did a survey of the members on this forum a couple of years ago, and the results were 100% consistent with the above interpretation.

What are the differences between the Original and Revised versions? There are several, but the most important one is that on the originals the A and B posts are the commons; whereas  on the revised ones the U and U posts are the commons. Each version has its own Owners Manual on the www.Lionel.com site.

In point of fact, Lionel constantly revises its products, and never announces most of the revisions. There have been other minor revisions to the CW-80, and more are on the way. I know this for a fact; but because there are likely to be several "generations" of the device on dealer's shelves all over the world, Lionel isn't keen on pointing out that some are better than others, because that could undercut the market for the older versions. This practice is not confined to Lionel, of course. Every company has its confidential policies.

The question of which two of the four output posts are "common" doesn't affect the most basic operation of the transformer itself, but can have serious  and often puzzling consequences in more advanced operations, such as providing "accessory power" to switches, and operating some accessories themselves, particularly post-war ones. You need to know what version(s) you have.

 

.

[SleeperN06]

I’m a little confused about the “G” location.  Do you mean in front of the CW such as Model:GCW-80 or someplace else like as in P/N:G6-14198?

I don't see any other place it could be.

[Doofus]

 Check out Craig's List. I have bought 3 CW's, 2 of them new in the box for less then 50 bucks each. When buying a CW you want one with a G in front of the number. The number is located on the bottom of the transformer, lower right. The G represents the new model CW.

[Anonymous]

I'm not entirely certain how long my upper level is, but it is a folded dog bone that twists and turns over the entire layout (8'10" x 13'2"). I run strictly Lionel Legacy control and the trains vary in length. I will try to post a picture tonight. I have to pay attention when doing this because with 3 trains it gets tight and you have to watch to make sure there isn't a collision. I did find that I have a dead spot about 6 feet long on the track... hence the reason I have to figure out and correct the power distribution problem!

No I do not have blocks on the layout.

[SleeperN06]

challenger3980

Johnny B,

  Please don't confuse Railsounds with Command Control (TMCC/Legacy, in Lionel's case). There are several different versions of Railsounds, and to the best of my knowledge, they are all usable in conventional control, but TMCC/Legacy may give you more that you can control with Railsounds. RailSounds equipped, and TMCC/Legacy equipped are NOT the same thing, there are many, many Railsounds locomotives available, that are not TMCC/Legacy equipped.

Doug

Thanks Doug, I admit I was a little confused. In fact I was going to ask, but it slipped by. I just remember going to the local Lionel dealer in Pittsburgh with my brother-in-law and his new loco last February. We did not know how old the loco was. The guy there said it was a TMCC train and gave us a little demonstration of what it could do. I asked him what we needed to get ours to work and a $100 later we were in business. It was so cool to see and hear the train slowly moving into the station with the squeals and clanking of braking. I had to catch a flight back home as he was trying to get the sound of the passengers and conductor working. And that is all that I know about it, in its entirety.  

 

And Brent, I’m confused. You must have be a pretty long track and broken up into blocks to have so many trains on one track. There is no way I can run more than one train per track, not only because they don’t run at the same speed, but I don’t have that long of track.

 

I hope to squeeze in enough track on my patio to have a 6x20 layout. I could get more if I could get rid of my wife’s air hockey table, but that’s another story. Anyway, I’m shooting for two mains with a crossover and some sidings for now. I thought about a helix which would add to the power consumption, but I just don’t have the room. I’m undecided on whether I’m going to break it up into blocks.

As far as accessories go, I will have at least one, probably two Operating Crossing Gate Signals, because my grandson gets a big kick out of flashing lights. I’m only interested in passenger trains at least for now so I will have a couple of stations, but that is it. Any other scenery I might do in the future will be stand alone without power.

I do want railsounds someday and the wife wants me to go slow because I already have N-scale and because I’ve started so many other hobbies in the past that I’m not doing anything with. My grandson is my biggest drive right now and if his mother ever moves on, I might not be so motivated without another train enthusiast around.  

[Anonymous]

Just because the ZW has 4 throttle handles does not mean you can only control 4 engines/trains. I have the new WM Challenger, C&O 10-Wheeler, and 2 Chessie GP-30s ALL running on the same track, there are also 2 cabeese on this track as well. So be VERY careful how you phrase this.

[challenger3980]

Johnny B,

  Please don't confuse Railsounds with Command Control (TMCC/Legacy, in Lionel's case). There are several different versions of Railsounds, and to the best of my knowledge, they are all usable in conventional control, but TMCC/Legacy may give you more that you can control with Railsounds. RailSounds equipped, and TMCC/Legacy equipped are NOT the same thing, there are many, many Railsounds locomotives available, that are not TMCC/Legacy equipped.

 With the "New ZW", you do not need to have 4 power bricks to run 4 trains. I don't, and I don't believe that Lionel refers tot he ZW's as having 4 THROTTLES, they have 2 Throttles, with full Whistle and bell controls, and 2 variable voltage outputs, that could be used as throttles, but their smaller control levers would make them inconvenient to be used that way. Also the 2 variable voltage outputs do not have whistle/bell controls. It would depend on many things whther you need more than the 2 power bricks that come with the ZW or not. How many/what kind of accessories do you have? How much power do they draw? What kind of locomotives are going to run? How many at the same time? Any Lighted cars? How Many? The stock, out of the box ZW (New) will put out up to 360 watts total regardless of how you divy them up, be it locomotives, illuminated passenger cars, or accessories. The New ZW, does give you the option though to add more power bricks to get up to a total of 720 watts, without having to buy more complete controllers/transformers, if the ZW can control things the way that you would like to, but just need more available wattage.

Doug

[SleeperN06]

bfskinner

How can a relative newbie, such as our new friend "Sleeper" make any sense out of all this?

Yes, you can say that again! There sure is a lot of information here and I’m still working on it.

Anyway I downloaded the manual for the ZW so now I understand it a little better. I thought those “blocks” where accessory/auxiliary transformers. I had no idea.

So if I understand this correctly I need the 6-32930 ZW controller w/ 2 tranformers at $450 and two 6-22983 Powerhouse Power Supplys at $85 each for a grand total of $600 just to run 4 trains. Well that leaves me out. As long as I can buy a CW-80 for $90, I’m staying with the CW-80.

I just wanted to add a little someting about the railsounds thing.  Now I’m not even going to pretend that I know anything about TMCC and railsounds. My brother-in-law was running 4 trains and 4 transformers of various sizes and brands for 20 years without any problems. Last year he picked up a TMCC loco from a guy who lost his job and needed the money.  He had given me a large box of N-scale stuff so in appreciation, I bought him a TMCC controller. We just connected it to one of his existing transformers. Neither one of us knew anything about TMCC and went with the advice of the local dealer. I don’t know what transformers he had, only that most it was 20 years or older.  It was working great as far as I know, but I had to leave before he learned how to work all the functions. I assume its working fine because he just bought another TMCC Loco this past October.

Someday I would like to have railsounds but for now I need to keep it simple because of the expense of it all.

 

[bfskinner]

Ole Timer

 The cw80's were never intended to run anything other than barely getting a starter set moving . As far as the Z4000 not functioning on even bells and whistles = conventional= .... that fellow read a untrue report .... a bare cw will not function railsounds either .... it takes a seperate control system to activate railsounds on any transformer .... even the most expensive . The difference between a Z1000 and a Z4000 is like comparing a bicycle to a sports car . The cw80 was designed by lionel to only be the most basic power supply and they will tell you so ... and man are the newer ones are ALOT better than the older design ! Always look for or ask the manufacturing date before buying one though . It all depends if you want to keep stacking alot of power supplies/transformers or using just 1 larger one .

 The older ZW's are famous for frying circuit board engines .... the newer models are great and Lionel has done a great job of updating them .... as they are completely different than the older models .... really a totally different system altogether although they look the same ..... they are NOT ! The only problem was they took a few years to catch up to MTH Z4000's ... and alot of folks fried alot of engines with the older models . The new ZW's are great .

Ole Timer,

I'm not sure we are a far apart as it sometimes appears, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to generalize successfully. For example, there are several versions of RailSounds, and also the issues of what a given transformer can get a RailSounds tender (or boxcar) to do are complex to say the least. I doubt that they can be summed up in a sentence or two.

You say that "the older ZW's are famous for frying circuit-board engines" but by "older" are you referring to the self-contained post-war ZW's or to early versions of the modern ZW's with the bricks?

Assuming that it's the post-war ones that you are talking about, what would have caused this. Are we certain it was the transformer, per se? Is it something inherent in the post-war ZW's themselves, or simply that folks were not accustomed to protecting their circuit-boards with TVS diodes; possibly believing that the v-e-r-y slow ZW circuit-breakers, or even "high-speed" fuses, were going to protect them? I have used post-war ZW transformers with  modern equipment PROTECTED BOTH BY FUSES against overcurrents, as well as TVS DIODES against voltage spikes, and haven't blown a circuit- board yet.  But, tomorrow is another day....

Bob "lionelsoni" Nelson has posted some very interesting text about what actually happens during a typical short-circuit. It's in the archives of this forum, and ought to  be required reading, IMHO.

Sheesh, I can't even seem to persuade people that there is an enormous difference between the early-release CW-80's and the revised ones. They go on Ebay and see "new, in box" and assume that they are getting a revised one. Not so fast, Kemo-Sabe!

Here's the recent quotation from the OGR  forum from which I got the notion that the MTH Z-4000 had "issues" with Lionel RailSounds. I didn't make it up, but I don't feel that I know the whole truth either.

"This issue has been discussed in great length with the first release of CC GG1 and FM Trainmaster and it looks like Lionel may have not corrected that issue. The CC horn/bell functions would not work with the Z4000 without a horn activation button that Lionel sells seperately. However, the horn/bell functions work with the DCS remote when running in conventional."

How can a relative newbie, such as our new friend "Sleeper" make any sense out of all this?

.

[brianel027]

Bob, Your explanations are always so precise. I'm not confused, but you do explain things better than I do when it comes to electrical stuff. 

I know the caboose light has no way of responding to the loco's power needs. But if you take a postwar caboose with a typical 14-18 volt bulb common in those cars and run that with a typical low end diesel with DC can motors, the light in the caboose won't get very bright at all, unless that loco is running full blast. So that's why I've changed my light sockets and bulbs to the mini-Christmas bulbs.

Typically early in the holiday season, you can find these separate sale bulbs in replacement pack of either 6 volt, 5-7 volt and 12 volt varities, and these are what I use. These tend to be gone by the time the December 26th sales roll along. In some of my passenger cars, I've used the 3.5 volt variety bulbs, but with the lights wired in series. It all works for me. But again, the kinds of locos I run don't need as much power to get going.

I discovered with these same bulbs, I can far more buildings and street lights run off one single transformer with no overload. I've invented my own streetlights using these mini-bulbs with a drinking straw over the bulb and a piece of pie-tin cut to fit over the bulb inside the straw, thus focusing the light downward. I understand with the "auto" types of bulbs you mentioned, there isn't a lot of significant difference. One of the nice things about buying these bulbs at Radio Shack, is the specs are listed on the packages.

I cut the number of transformers I was once using in half when I switched from the more traditional larger "automotive" bulbs typically used in Lionel trains to the mini-Christmas types of bulbs. Which are also much cheaper, especially after Christmas. Years ago, I found a bunch of mini-light strings on sale which had 6 volt round globe bulbs. I bought 4 or 5 of those and I'm still using those bulbs, which do seem to put out a more broad illumination versus the thin more common style.