The 6177 Reading 2-bay hopper was produced from ’86 to ’90 and again in ’93, appearing in 4 different sets as well as Rolling Stock Assortments. A nice car with pressed iron powder wheels and trucks attached to the car body with metal rivets. It’s another easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price of around $10.
It’s a twin to the 9015 Reading produced from ’73 to ’75 presented in an earlier post. Other than the road number, there’s only a slight difference in the molded body color that keeps them from being identical twins.
Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………
Papa D
It’s been a long busy summer, but with the weather turning cooler it’s time for trains again.
The 16400 Penn RR 2-bay hopper was produced in ’88 (U) and ’89 appearing in the 11708 Midnight Shift Set as well as Rolling Stock Assortments. It’s a little harder to find and also commands a little higher price in the neighborhood of $20 or so. Another nice car with all the improvements implemented by LTI.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Nearing the end of the 2-bay hopper list. Second to the last is the 16410 Missouri-Kansas & Texas 2-bay hopper cataloged in ’92 and un-cataloged in ’93; appearing in the 11728 High Plains Runner and 11800 Toy R Us Heavy Iron sets, respectively. Another well made, nice looking car that is maybe a little bit harder to find since it was never a separate sale item.
Completing the list of cheap classic 2-bay hoppers is the 16414 NYC-CCC& StL 2-bay hopper cataloged in ’94 as a separate sale item. Another well made, nice looking car that has all the improvements implemented by LTI.
While the LTI cars are superior to run, they are not nearly as much fun to collect. Gone are the MPC era variations and factory mistakes. Working for MPC must have been quite hectic.
Just a couple of loose ends to tie up before moving on to short gondolas.
The 25000 Lehigh Valley 2-bay hopper was not listed in Michael Connor’s article on 2-bay hopper cheap classics in the January 1995 edition of CTT because it was an un-cataloged item. Released in ’70, it’s an example of MPC getting rid of leftover stock inherited from the original Lionel Corporation. Other than some the 9010 and 9011 2-bay hoppers that also used leftover stock, the separately applied brake wheel would not appear again on 2-bay hoppers until after the MPC/LTI era. If you look closely at the photo, you can just see the top of the brake wheel on the right hand side.
An earlier post mentioned that the 6113 Illinois Central 2-bay hopper car had three noted variations:
Non-Operating Body,
Operating Body with Glued Hatches,
Operating (non-glued hatches),
with the last variation being somewhat suspect since it was an easy owner made modification. A couple of months ago I was fortunate enough to acquire the second variation (at last!) for under $30. Note the metal step at the corners.
It also has a separately applied brake wheel.
The bottom has the molded in features for the operating mechanism.
While the graphics are almost the same, some of the letters are a little smaller in the variation, the bodies are different. Note the differences at the end of the cars.
The inside of the cars are also quite different.
It is certainly a mystery what MPC would use similar graphics and the same car number on what is unquestionable different car bodies. Running out of the standard 2-bay hopper body isn’t an explanation since the graphics are not exactly the same. I guess it can just be chocked up to the wacky world of MPC production control.
Unlike the other cars in the cheap classic series (short single dome tank cars, 8” boxcars, short gondolas, and SP style cabooses without lights or windows) the short 2 bay hopper has remained in the Lionel line-up to the present day. Gone are the cheap trucks of the MPC era and the separately applied brake wheel is back. Growing up there were 2 railroads that went through town, the B&M and NYNH&H. So naturally I have a fondness for any Lionel product with either of these road names. So I end this series with a non cheap classic 2 bay hopper, the 26418 B&M built in 2009.
Next post, I’ll start on the cheap classic short gondolas from Michael Connor’s list that appeared in the January 1995 edition of CCT.
The earlier body version shown was easily adapted from the original PW molds with simple modifications to the truck mounting area. To cut costs the original 2 screws per metal truck mounting plate were replaced with the bent tab mount. Note the original screw hole bosses still remaining.
It seems logical that the major MPC reworking of the body molds were also for cost cutting reasons, simplifying the truck mounting with a rivet and eliminating the metal sub frames.
Bruce
MPC got a late start producing the short (8”) gondola. Their first effort was the 9031 Nickel Plate first produced in ’73. Missing the first 2 years of MPC production certainly cut-down on variations. The 9031 continued to be produced in ’74, ’75, ’82, ’83 and un-cataloged from ’84 to ’91. It never came with a load (I couldn’t help adding a couple of white canisters). It appeared in 10 different sets but was never a separate sale item or included in a rolling stock assortment. The un-cataloged sets were sold by Sears and Toys-R-Us. It’s very easy to find at a cheap classic price.
The 9031 is a straight re-issue of the postwar 6142 short gondola. The only variation is whether the molded in brake wheel is big or small. Note the number of grab irons at the side ends varies between the big and small brake wheel variation. This variation is a carry-over from the postwar era. While generally not considered a variation, given production spanned both the MPC and LTI eras, this piece of rolling stock can be found with several different trucks.
I'd love to find a yellow Republic Steel long gondola. I saw one at a show in the last year for $30-$40. One was just on EBay in a group. I missed that one.
The 9033 Penn Central followed the 9032 Southern Pacific. Initial produced from ‘76 to ’78 it reappeared again in 82, un-cataloged in ‘86, cataloged again from ’87 to ’90, and making a last un-cataloged appearance in ‘92. It was included as part of an astonishing 14 different sets and included in several Rolling Stock Assortments (RSA) making it a very common car easily found at a cheap price. The later production version had iron sintered wheels and trucks attached by a metal rivet.
The next short gondola released by MPC from 79 to 82 was the 9340 Illinois Central Gulf. It was part of the 1960 Midnight Flyer set in each of those years. It came with 3 yellow canisters in that set. It was also part of 4 un-cataloged sets. It’s easily found at a cheap classic price under $10.
Next up is the 6207 Southern Ry short gondola produced from ’83 to ’85. It only came in one cataloged set, the 1353 Southern Streak, and one un-cataloged set, the Lionel Kiddie City 1362 Lionel Live Express (’83 only). Given the limited production this is the hardest short gondola on the cheap classic list to find. Fortunately its price doesn’t match its rarity, buyable at a cheap classic price of around $10. This is my favorite short gondola, I think it looks great, and it’s much easier for a diesel or steam engine to pull compared to post-war 6012/6112 short gondolas.
The 1353 Southern Streak was a gold mine of cheap classic rolling stock. In addition to the 6207 Southern Ry short gondola it included the 7902 Santa Fe 8” boxcar, 6115 Southern Ry 2 bay hopper, and 6486 Southern SP style caboose (to be featured in the fourth installment of cheap classics). Unfortunately the steam engine, while not bad looking was one of the bottom of the line DC only models. I picked up a set very cheap because someone had sprayed the engine and tender a glossy black. Using dull coat I was able to make both look somewhat better. I then tried installing a full bridge rectified to be able to run the engine on my conventional AC powered layout. This modification worked well, but provided only stop or forward control. I next tried a Dallee universal 4 amp E-unit. (I know, I know the cost of the E-unit at $44.95 is way out of proportion to the value of this steam engine, but sometimes the fun of model trains is trying stuff, so in this regard I got my money’s worth.) This E-unit was easy to install and fit within the available space. The end result is the conversion of a DC to AC powered steam engine that has neutral, forward and reverse capability. I only wish it was the original green color!
On a historical note, Lionel Kiddie City Stores were the last vestige of the original Lionel Corporation. They were forced to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the early ‘90’s. After being unsuccessful in arranging further financing, Lionel Corporation was dissolved. The Lionel trade mark had previously been sold to LTI in the late 80’s.
Good evening all,
I do have this set and it is one of the more frustrating sets that Lionel ever made. It JUST misses being one of the better DC sets that was made. As Papa D. points out, it has a load of "Cheap Classics" rolling stock, but the engine is the deal breaker. It is the standard 2-4-0 of the time period, and the green is reasonably close (for a cheap MPC attempt) at the Southern's color. It is the stupid Southern Streak on the side of the tender that just ruins it. Seriously, was someone asleep at the switch when that name was selected? Reminds me of the Rail Blazer fiasco a couple of years later on the side of a gondola or box car on a small Rock Island set. If they wanted to have some continuity to the theme, at least the caboose should have had the same name. There is some salvation. A few years later, Lionel produced some very inexpensive AC engines (but no matching caboose), and I think Southern was perhaps on the side of a tender. Not quite the same color as the Southern Streak caboose, but at least the same road name. It does my heart to see these gems written about again.
Keep on training,
Mike C. from Indiana
Papa D: I have a Dark Blue 9011. It came as part of a Sears set in '71 or '72. The set is headed by an 8020 Alco and contains a green Burlington (NOT BN) Gon, a wheaties boxcar, and PenCentral log dump, and an ATSF 9061 SP-style cabbose. Figure 8 of track.
Thanks cheapclassics and LIRR1926, glad you are enjoying this thread.
palallin- Your set is the 1292 Sears 6-Unit Diesel Freight Set from 1972 consisting of the 8020 Santa Fe Alco Diesel, 9300 Penn Central Log Car, 9040 Wheaties 8" Boxcar, 9011 Great Northern 2 Bay Hopper, 9140 Burlington Long Gondola, and 9061 ATSF SPStyle Caboose. A nice set in and of itself. A dark blue 9011 Great Northern 2 Bay Hopper is very, very rare, I've never seen one in over 2 years of looking. If it is royal blue instead of dark blue, it's still rare. In either case, it's nice to tie either of these cars to to a specific set. If possible please post a photo.
Have fun collecting cheap classics.....
Thanks for the set number, Papa D. It is the Dark Blue; i have three photos, but I cannot post them because I don't have any place to post them or link them to.
If you want to see them (or post them), i can send them to you.
An earlier post on this thread covered the 9011 Great Northern 2 bay hopper car. It was noted that the 9011 was the champ when it came to variations with a total of 5: 1) Light blue with separate brake wheel, AAR trucks and MPC logo; 2) Light blue with molded brake wheel and Symington-Wayne trucks and MPC logo; 3) the same as 2 except without MPC logo; 4) a rare royal blue; and 5) a very rare dark blue. I have examples of the first 4 variations but not the last one. In his recent post, palallin said he had this very rare dark blue variation and would send me photos to post, so here it is. I’ve included the royal blue 9011 variation and the dark blue 9012 TA&G for comparison. While lighting and camera flash can alter colors, it does appear to be a darker blue than the royal blue 9011 and very close to the 9012 TA&G.
I have the medium blue Great Borthern 9011. Then a slightly darker blue T.A.&G. RY. CO. and a dark blue one which looks black if the room is dark. I don't know how to post pictures of them here.
Getting back to gondolas, the 6258 Santa Fe short gondola was produced in ’85 & ’86 and again as an uncataloged item in ’92. It was part of the 1501 Midland Freight as well as in rolling stock assortments. The catalog didn’t show it with a load, but strangely the RSA appears to have included 3 silver containers. The blue body with yellow graphics makes a nice looking car.
Somehow got this one out of order, should have posted the 9017 Wabash produced from 78 to 81 and un-cataloged from 81 to 83 earlier. It also was a rolling stock assortment selection. It came with 2 gold canisters.
Summer's over, it's time to get back to trains and finish up on this thread!
Next up is the 16304 Rail Blazer produced in ’87 & ’88. It was only available in the 11701 Rail Blazer set. Interestingly enough, the color shown in the catalogue in ‘87 was orange and in ’88 red, both with white graphics and 2 black reel loads. The latter is slightly more difficult to find, but it is not rare.
Overall interesting looking rolling stock and the variation in color makes collecting fun.
The 16313 Pennsylvania short gondola was produced in U'88 & '89. In came in the 11708 Midnight Shift with 2 black reels. A very nice looking piece of rolling stock with operating knuckle couplers and metal wheels. A metal rivet is used to attach the trucks to the body.
With a relatively long production run it is relatively easy to find at around 10 to 15 dollars. Since it only came in the two sets there is no individual box.
It's part of a traditional size train I regularly run on my 0-27 layout.
Note (5/1/16): See later post for light green variation.
The last “cheap classic” short gondola in this series is the 16392 Wabash first available un-cataloged in ’93 and then cataloged in ’94. In both years it was a separate sale item as part of the Rolling Stock Assortment (RSA). Catalogued versus un-catalogued in this instance merely means it was shown in the RSA group photo one year and not the other. Although not shown in the catalogue, it came with either 2 silver, white or black canisters. With a MSRP of $9.95 it was a pretty good bargain. By comparison the 16388 Lehigh Valley long gondola with 4 canisters also catalogued in ’94 had a MSRP of $31.95. Sales must have been decent, since it is relatively easy to find for a “cheap classic” price of around $10 to $15 dollars. A like new one including box and silver canisters is currently listed on eBay for $15 plus $10 shipping.
Below is my collection of all the “cheap classic” short gondolas plus some post war era short gondolas and a post “cheap classic” short gondola. The time spent collecting these was enjoyable, as is said “the hunt is everything”. And because they were relatively cheap, they didn’t break my train collecting bank.
Papa_D The 16313 Pennsylvania short gondola was produced from '87 through '90. In came in 2 starter sets; the 1687 Freight Flyer (with 2 white canisters) and the 11708 Midnight Shift (with 2 black reels). A very nice looking piece of rolling stock with operating knuckle couplers and metal wheels. A metal rivet is used to attach the trucks to the body. With a relatively long production run it is relatively easy to find at around 10 to 15 dollars. Since it only came in the two sets there is no individual box. It's part of a traditional size train I regularly run on my 0-27 layout. Have fun collecting cheap classics……………………… Papa D
The 16313 Pennsylvania short gondola was produced from '87 through '90. In came in 2 starter sets; the 1687 Freight Flyer (with 2 white canisters) and the 11708 Midnight Shift (with 2 black reels). A very nice looking piece of rolling stock with operating knuckle couplers and metal wheels. A metal rivet is used to attach the trucks to the body.
I have this gondola, it was original in the Midnight Shift set with the 8900 Vulcan switcher, same graphics and everything, but was light green like the Penn Central gondola you posted above. Were you aware of this variation?
I think it was the 80s when I remember seeing a nice looking Florida long gondola. I forget the entire road name. Then a Sante Fe red and yellow gondola, I think also from the 80s. Not sure if either would now be a cheap classic.
Tinplatacis
No, I wasn't aware of a body color variation for the 16313 Pennsylvania short gondola, nor does any of my reference material make mention of any variation for this piece of rolling stock. The value for this type of variation and its rarity would make it fairly valuable. Can you post a photo?
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month