Good evening Tom and gang. I'll have a bottomless draught, and but a round for the house. I see some more of the clan have located the new digs. I forgot to compliment Tom on his trolley baseball team. It was news to me. Additionally, Tom did take an accurate guess at identifying my whatchacallit ... so well done sir! Wow James, are you trying to hurt my brain with complex equations? I have quite enough trouble just trying to figure out the birthday list here. Nifty pic of the Zephyr observation car. They sure are purty, aren't they? Great to see Rob, but don't know if the same Ruggle that designed the first patent was related to the Ruggles of the Ruggle Car Company. Fantastic to see Peter today too, who also noticed the five star rating from David Voss. And now, here's a little SR stuff from me:
Big Dropper
Here's a brand-new car. It is one of two built so far. Southern designed and developed it for shippers of coal, sand, gravel and other bulk products that can move in bottom-dumping open-top cars, It can carry more than 100 tons of coal or other bulk material, and it can be completely unloaded in the fifteen seconds that have elapsed since this description began. Some of our people call it "the big dropper" because the bottom can open completely from end to end or each one of the four sets of gates can be operated singly. Like our solid-bottom aluminum gondola - "Silversides" - the "Big Dipper" is designed for easy open-top loading, rugged dependability and fast-turnaround service. It can also be used like the "Silversides" and unloaded in big rotary dumpers at power plants where its load is then discharged through the top like sugar is tipped from a teaspoon. This car has 4,600 cubic feet of load space in a cargo compartment 47 ½ feet long and 10 feet 2 ½ inches wide. The over-all height of the car above the rails is 12 feet 3-11/16 inches. Southern Railway spent $125,000 of its own money to research, design and build these two prototypes of this drop-bottom car of the future. These two cars have just completed tests which prove them satisfactory and hundreds of new cars are now being ordered by us. Here's another technological breakthrough that will lower freight costs, which means putting more money in your pockets.
A man who had been in a mental home for some years finally seemed to have improved to the point where it was thought he might be released.The head of the institution, in a fit of commendable caution, decided, however, to interview him first."Tell me," said he, "if we release you, as we are considering doing, what do you intend to do with your life?'The inmate said, "It would be wonderful to get back to real life and if I do, I will certainly refrain from making my former mistake. I was a nuclear physicist, you know, and it was the stress of my work in weapons research that helped put me here. If I am released, I shall confine myself to work in pure theory, where I trust the situation will be less difficult and stressful.""Marvelous," said the head of the institution."Or else," ruminated the inmate. "I might teach. There is something to be said for spending one's life in bringing up a new generation of scientists.""Absolutely," said the head."Then again, I might write. There is considerable need for books on science for the general public. Or I might even write a novel based on my experiences in this fine institution.""An interesting possibility," said the head."And finally, if none of these things appeals to me, I can always continue to be a teakettle."
Hi Tom and all.
Youse guys. I go away for a few days , come back, and we have moved house, although Our Place looks exactly the same, BORIS, TEX, AWK and FROSTBITE are all still here. There is RUTH and LEON looking after us and TOM is still the Landlord .I dare say it is a lot easier reading about the change after it is all over, and that we can get to read the wonderful store of knowledge from the old thread has to be the best news of all.The RDC Encore from CM3 from page 2 that Tom posted is a great example.
Mr. Voss seems a good guy and that is a great honor for the new thread.
As I see TOM has brought the Tweeter over, I had better order a beer, a pint of Holden's Mild after the festivities please RUTH and a round to celebrate A HAPPY NEW YEAR for all..
The old bar was busy up to New Year's Eve with great posts.
A late to CM3, hope you are back at the bar soon.
ERIC Thanks for the trolley, signal and Silver Horizon Car pics. The second picture featuring the ground signal is a very simular design to that used on British Rail, although without the uppermost light.
DOUG Careful with those large rocks.Loved the pics and descriptions from steam's last daysI knew that was John Ruggles tractive effort and anti-slip device, well I did after I had read your answer. Good Quiz.
ROB Hope the puter probs are over soon. enjoyed the Nearside Car Encore. I was thinking, when were power operated doors first introduced on trolleys and subway cars.I hope the new Groan-O-Meter has a good guarantee with it.
MIKE Thanks for the links I was able to view them. The pic of the Irish semaphores was at Killarney, Nick described the operation of the station a while back at the bar.
JAMES Good post on the Tractive Effort (T.E.) of locos, in England a couple of examples of steam locos T.E for some classes are Great Western King class 40,285 lb.LMS Duchess 40,000lb and LNER A4 35,455lb. It seems a lot depends on the driving wheel diameter.
LARS Thanks for the new year greetings. Great set of book covers on the last day of the old thread. I see the Giants have made the play offs. We were at Arrowhead Sunday to see the Chiefs pull off a good win and unbelievably the other 3 results went their way, our new year celebrations started early watching the 49's - Broncos game. Great football weather, cold, rain and even some snow in the 3rd quarter. See you at the Super Bowl. .
TOM. Many thanks for making the change to the new bar a smooth one.
Great Canadian RR history for December. The Prince Of Wales must have been quite young when he opened the bridge in 1860. I suppose the 1979 derailment of the dangerous cargo must have cost a lot to the CP railway in compansation but it could have been so much worse in terms of casualties.
Thanks for the SR Frieght and Plant Site Encores.
Enjoying the '56 baseball, never knew about the "trolley" dodgers. Talking of a railway connection with top sporting teams, does anyone know the connection of one of the worlds most famous soccer teams, Manchester United, has with railways.
Two good Navy films on at the Emporium this week and a great set of photos to round off at the old Our Place.
It was a good time at Kansas City this weekend.The new bridge over the tracks from Union station is now open. There is a great model railroad set up in the entrace hall at Union Station, on the Friday night the layout was running and looked absolutly wonderful in the low lighting with the lights on the locos and cars showing up well. The Kansas City Southern had their Christmas train in the yard it looked great and
G'day Cap'n Tom & fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth, a frosty mug of Schaefer and slide the snack tray down my way, wudja please Keep the change, my deAH, you've earned it around this morgue. <ugh>
So, the New Year has begun and the sails are still slack during daylight. Have to drift until the night winds perk us up. <grin>
Good to see Eric & Rob from the wee hours and I suspect we'll see a trickling back for a few more as this day passes. What happened to Pete Thought he was supposed to be back with us on Monday I mean the Chiefs WON their game, made the playoffs and all should be well. C'mon back, Wolfman, we sure could use some activity here at the bar. I'll even spring for your favorite brew!
Nice Via Rail photo for your morning "mast head," brings back some fond recollections of your Daily Summaries. By the way, I miss those, BUT realize they are labor intensive and since we haven't the clientele of days gone by, what's the point They were entertaining and chock full o' info for us, though.
Really liked those Pix you provided over on the "old" thread - MKI as Rob refers to it. Anyway, I don't think we've seen a couple of 'em. Don't recall seeing the Mt. McKinley shot - which by the way is outstanding. No doubt someone will come along and "swipe it" for their own. Anyway, nicely done, Sir! Also, that "threesome" pix of you, Rob & Ted at the tavern says it all! Sure wish I could've been with you, but there's Rendezvous II coming up this May. Something to look forward to.
I did a bit of browsing the forums today and it seems that you managed the transition from old to new without a hitch. Some threads needed to have the "Vossman" make the final post, whereas you took care of everything. Why am I surprised That's why you're the skipper 'round here! <grin>
Time for me to put a lid on it, I hear the Mrs. bellowing calling my name!
One more, Ruth!
Until the next time!
Lars
foto credit: www.viarail.ca
G'day Gents!
Tuesday and the appearance of things returning to normal as the Christmas-New Year's holiday season draws to a close. People heading back to work ‘n school, while others continue on with vacation time, or in SOME cases, retirement! <grin>
As always, check out the pastries in The Mentor Village Bakery case and the Menu Board selections for our <light> 'n <traditional> breakfasts. Wash it all down with a freshly ground 'n brewed mug of cofee <regular> 'n <unleaded>, then sit back and take in the conversations going on here at the Bar by the Ballast!
Most pleased to see some semblance of the "routine" here at the Saloon by the Siding and of course I didn't expect a "rush" to the doors yesterday. It was difficult enough for some simply to open their eyes! <ooooooooh>
So, what's on tap ‘round here today Not much, as we'll resume the Tuesday Theme for the Day next week. Pretty much whatever one wants to bring up today.
Rob at 12:05 AM today: Thought you were still experiencing the ravages of the Format-Scurvy. However, not seeing you for a couple of days over the long weekend is hardly what we should expect from our Bar Chandler. You've got a New Year and another shot at restoring your position ‘round here, otherwise to the "shed" with ya!
Formatting: Just my thoughts BUT have you tried everything available to you regarding this problem Seems to me it has to be an "issue" between your ‘puter and the "recognition" of the Forums. "Bugs" get into the registry and other places that can and do cause difficulties. So, my recommendation is to purge everything that you can through a "cleaning" of your drive and assorted files ("temp" and others). Then try your anti-virus package to determine whether it too may provide a "cleaning" feature. If it does, use it. After all of that is done, reboot and see what happens. Even if you've done this recently, try again. I know it's exasperating, frustrating and down right maddening, I've found that these repetitive "cleanings" have yielded positive results for me. Good luck.
Hockey! I see that your team and mine seems to have done a bit better as of late. The Bloosers (aka: Blues) are on a roll of sorts after having changed coaches. The team is beginning to look much more competitive and has racked up at least one point per game for over a week. That's quite a change from what we've seen this season and last. Doesn't seem "right" to have the Leafs ‘n Blues out of the hunt after so many years of being "right there."
Eric at 2:45 AM today: You, Sir, get the "nod" for the first INCLUSIVE Post for 2007! Nicely done and hopefully will set the pace for the rest of the year.
Fine looking electric! Can you tell us more about it I see the pantographs are down, so is this machine simply sitting on a siding
Wanna see a Budd observation dome in "action" Come to Canada with us and travel aboard VIA Rail's Canadian or the Ocean (during tourist season). A wonderful way to watch the world go by. Just check out the Pix at the top of this Post!!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Tom
Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!
And good morning to you Leon! Do you think I could have a Rumpsteak Café de Paris despite the early hour? Great, thank you. No rush!
Some more activities at the bar this first day of the new year than yesterday! Except for some football it has been a kind of slow day.
Doug – I guess you couldn’t see that game in 1955 then! A lot of young people here!I think you should leave the big rocks where they are. Don’t break your back. I looked at that drawing and the only thing I could figure out was that it had to be some kind of gear for a locomotive. Well, it was not a gear so I am glad I didn’t reveal my hmm, lack of knowledge. 1837, no doubt it was for a steam engine!I agree with what Joe G. Collias wrote, sand is very important for a locomotive to keep it rolling all the time. Southern’s Ps-2 #1231 was from the beginning a Ps. As far as I can tell #1317 was a Ps. Nice pictures!A lot of interesting facts about Americans!Mike – Those url’s did not work for me. Nothing came up. Tom – Good job transfering everything and every body to the new old Our Place!!! The important thing is that it is still there!1955, you have a good memory! I actually also remember soem things that happened that year (but no ball game).Good movies (as always) playing at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre! I have seen both of them. Thanks for the pictures! Both from the 1st rendevouez and from Alaska! Oh, I almost forgot the one from Rock Hill! Lars – Nice book covers, as always. It is always covers of books I don’t have (I have quite a few)! Yes, it was a lot of football today! The best game was the last one, the Fieasta Bowl! How could you be surprised so few (just Tom) had made it to the bar before noon today? It was New Years Eve last night! No one went to bad until early this morning and needed some rest. Skål!!!James – Interesting info about tractive effort! If you look at the starting T.E for steam engines like Big Boy the numbers are not that impressive. The starting T.E. is the steam engines weakest point, to get a heavy train moving from a stationary position. Today you can find electric locomotives with a starting T.E. of more than 1400 kN. Interesting topic!
940 kN starting T.E.Rob – I think I saw you in one of Tom’s pictures! Sorry to hear you are still having problems with the toolbar. I would prefer to see that Budd car in operational condition, but at least it is still around.
Happy New Year!!!
Eric
I see some of you are finally awakening and finding your way to the Tavern by the Tracks! <grin> Well, it IS a holiday, and therefore taking it easy is the first rule to follow.
Speaking of which, I note that no one has made mention of the Posts made on the last day over on the "original" Thread. Some good stuff there and certainly worth checking out and making mention of. Remember, we STRIVE to be inclusive at this Thread!! I brought the tweeter along with me from the other site.
We're starting anew here - so the "ground rules" are right above these comments. No excuses!
So Doug, did I or did I not "win" your quiz on that diagram Perhaps you missed my 2nd "shot" at it over on the "original" site. Anyway, some sort of mention - honorable or not - would be nice! <groan> Hey! That was quite a "list" you provided - I could 'relate' to several of the categories.
Sorry to say that there's just a wee bit of overkill for today's reading matter from Doug 'n James - have to save it for tomorrow. But, your contribtions ARE appreciated.
Thanx for stopping by, Lars, just wouldn't be "right" to kick off this "new" Thread without our Manager!
Eric, that's a fine Pix of the Silver Horizon observation dome car! I note that it was a CB&Q car used for the California Zephyr - a collaborative route amongst pariticipating roads. Nicely done!
The only operational units left that I'm aware of are all in the inventory of Canada's VIA Rail - a treat to travel in, fer sure, fer sure!
Also noted that Kalmbach's "Vossman" has "officially" locked our former Thread and has paid us an honor at this new site. Many thanx! Perhaps one day we can engage you in some dialogue via Email regarding an "issue" that has caused us a bit of pain 'n suffering. But, NOT today!
Enjoy the day and Ruth, serve 'em up a round on me - Boris, ring the bell!
Good afternoon Captain Tom and all present!!
Happy New Year to all of You!!!
Hello Leon, I think I start the new year with a juicy Filet Mignon, please. Could you ask Boris to bring a large glass of the spiked OJ? Thank you!
Just stopping by for something to eat. I will be back later tonight with an inclusive post. This place looks like brand new!
Yesterday we (i and the mrs) went on a liitle trip south of Phoenix and look what I found!
A car from a very classic train, the California Zephyr! Parked outside Amtrak's station in the town of Maricopa, south of Phoenix. It seems to be used as some kind of bar/restaurant but it was closed yesterday.
I'll be back later!
G-day Tom and all present.
Ruth- Could you get me a OJ and a sandwich please. Thanks.
I'mn sorry for my absence. Some things happened that I hadn't expected. One of my friends mother died. Quite unexpected.
Had a good New years. I was watching some of the rose parade this morning and most of the bands in that parade are really cool. Some really nice music coming from them.
Anyway I justed wanted to check in and say Happy New year to everyone.
BTW: Barndad- Good little article on the improvement of tractive effort. That drawing looks really complicated. I haven't seen anything like it before. But I would guess so, since it was used on steam engines.
I've got a little article on tractive effort myself. Take a look at the largest steam engines tractive effort. A 2-8-8-8-4 Unbelievable!!
Tractive effort: (abbr. TE) is the pulling force exerted, normally by a locomotive, though the term could also be used for anything else that pulls a load. It is normally understood to be the actual force on the locomotive's drawbar or rear coupler. When a bare figure for tractive effort is quoted without a speed qualification, this is normally for starting tractive effort, i.e. at a dead start with the wheels not turning.
In most cases, especially for steam locomotives, this figure is a calculated, not measured one. The normal formula used (measurements in pounds and inches) is:
where
The constant 0.85 was the Association of American Railroads (AAR) standard for such calculations, and certainly over-estimated the efficiency of some locomotives and underestimated that of others. Modern, roller bearing fitted locomotives were probably underestimated in this calculation.
European designers used a constant of 0.6 instead of 0.85, so the two cannot be directly compared without a conversion factor.
Tractive effort is the figure most often quoted when people are comparing the power of different steam locomotives, but the use can be misleading, because tractive effort shows the ability to start a train, not the ability to do work by hauling it. Possibly the highest figure for starting tractive effort ever recorded was for the Virginian Railway's 2-8-8-8-4 Triplex locomotive, which in simple expansion mode had a starting T.E. of 199,560 lbf (888 kN) - but this did not translate into power, for the boiler was undersized and could not produce enough steam to haul at speeds over 5 mph (8 km/h).
Of more successful large steam power, the Union Pacific's famous Big Boys had a starting T.E. of 135,375 lbf (602 kN), the Norfolk & Western's 2-8-8-2 Y6a had a starting T.E. of 152,206 lbf (677 kN) in simple expansion mode, and the Pennsylvania Railroad's freight Duplex Q2 attained 114,860 lbf (511 kN) - the highest for a rigid framed locomotive. Later two cylinder passenger locomotives were generally 70,000 to 80,000 lbf (300 to 350 kN) of T.E.
For a diesel-electric or electric locomotive, starting T.E. can be calculated from the stall torque of the traction motors (the turning force it can produce while at a dead stop), the gearing, and the wheel diameter.
A related statistic is a locomotive's factor of adhesion, which is simply the weight on the locomotive's driving wheels divided by the starting tractive effort.
For a locomotive to accelerate from a stationary position, it must apply a force to overcome the inertia of the train, along with the frictional forces in the
Good morning Tom and friends! The new place looks great, and familiar. Nice 2007 graphics from manager Lars, and I see all the critters made it, so please watch your step. Here's a little something from me to break-in the new digs:
From January 1947 Railroad Magazine
Out of dusty archives comes this reproduction of America's first numbered patent, a complex little gadget for stepping up tractive effort and preventing slipping on heavy grades.
On July 13, 1836, the United States issued its first numbered patent, and according to the AAR, it was for a locomotive. The patent - "designed to give a multiplied tractive power to the locomotive and prevent the evil of sliding of the wheels" - was issued to John Ruggles, United States Senator from Maine who was largely responsible for the passage of the Act of 1836, which set up the present-day American system of granting patents and administering the system properly.
Ruggles' invention included a check rail and retreating cogs, to increase adhesion and prevent wheels from slipping; and a gear-like arrangement of wheels to multiply the tractive effort of locomotives when ascending steep grades with heavy loads. Under the patent provisions, the engine wheels were made in the unusual form, except that the rim was somewhat wider from the flange to the outside of the tread. This 1 3/4-inch extension of the rim was pierced with 24 holes, or square sockets. When not in use, the cogs were kept in place by spiral springs bearing upon their heads with sufficient force to project them outward easily when pressed up into the sockets. The springs reacted against the top of the caps, which enclose them, to protect them from mud, or other impediments to easy action.
The check rail was placed outside the bearing rails, far enough away that the rim pf the wheel could not reach it when running close to its flange. In this way, they offered no resistance to motion as long as the wheels adhered to the rails. But once the engine began to slip, the cogs shot into gear and held the wheel in check, their own action restored them instantly, as relieved from the pressure against the flank of the teeth, they rose behind the wheel. Their action was attended by very little friction, acting only when necessary to supply the deficiency of adhesion. Thus Ruggles' retreating cogs had the faculty of getting in and out of service without prompting.
Increasing the tractive effort was the second purpose of this patent. By the application of additional wheels to the driving shaft, which could be allowed to revolve freely or put into gear, tractive power of the engine could be doubled, trebled, or quadrupled to adapt it to the grade of the road where it would be used. Thus an engine was enabled to move up a grade with less speed than on the level but with greater pull. When not needed, these wheels turned in conjunction with the regular running gear.
Contrary to popular opinion, Ruggle's invention was not the first to be patented in the United States. Actually, patent procedure dates back to 1790, when the first patent bill was signed by President George Washington. Ruggles' device though, was first to be given a patent number in a manner similar too present-day practice.
Since that time more than two million mechanical patents and one hundred thousand design patents have been issued. Design patent number 100,000 was for railroad air-conditioning equipment. Although American railroads were only in their infancy when Patent Number 1 was granted, six unnumbered patents were issued before 1836 on inventions pertaining to the railroads. One of them was for a cog-wheel-equipped locomotive, forerunner of Ruggles' invention.
Like many other patented inventions, those early six fell by the wayside as American inventive genius changed the locomotive from an eight- or nine-ton' machine to one of six hundred or more tons. Today's average locomotive contains almost a thousand patented features. Railroad development has reached the point where it would take the combined weight of four complete locomotives of Ruggles' time to equal just the weight of coal carried by one locomotive in her tender. Partly because of these improvements modern locomotives can pull loads one hundred fifty times greater at five times the speed of what journals of one hundred and ten years ago described as "our complete engines."
Facts About Americans
HAPPY NEW YEAR to all the gang at "Our" Place!
Ruth, I'll take a "hair of the dog" and put aside the change for a round when the boys begin trickling in.
Nice transition to the new digs, Cap'n Tom, looks like you've thought of everything. But, as always seems to be the case, there's always ONE who will get totally discombulated over this minor change of locations! <grin>
This football weekend is still going strong in my digs and I expect it to continue into the night. Football, food, drink, good cheer, happiness and good health and so forth. Something the Larsman and his family never take for granted, especially the last three.
I'm kinda waiting to see what the guys will bring forth for 2007 and am surprised at the absence of them on this day. In just looking at the list of those who participated in the current Contest, we've got the guys, but there's always that down time that seemingly has wound itself into the routine around the Bar by the Ballast.
A toast to Cap'n Tom and the finest bar in cyber space! Skål (Skoal)
G'day!
A New Year and the start of a new week here at the Tavern by the Tracks! Join me in a toast to a Happy ‘n Healthy 2007 for all of our regulars and their families!
I didn't think that the first Post following the creation of our "reborn" Thread would be mine. Must be a lot of you out there on the mend, eh <grin> Judging by the condition of our Banquet Centre (aka: Rat's Patoot Room!) it appears last night's staff party was rather mild compared to other events. That's good, at least we won't have to redecorate the place and check for structural soundness!
CHEERS from:
Frostbite the Penguin
Awk the Parrot
Tex the Armadillo
10,000th Post CONTEST results (in order of submission):
Note: Due to the closing of our original Thread and the opening of this new one, the contest ends once the combined total of Pages reaches 10,000.
Feb 14th - BK
Feb 15th - Lars
Mar 12th - Pete
Jan 1st - James
Jan 28th - Eric
Jan 18th - DL
Feb 8th - Doug
Jan 31st - Rob
Mar 15th - CM3
CONTEST closed on Dec 22nd.
Happy New Year to the regulars at "Our" Place!
As requested by Kalmbach, the old Thread has been shut down and the new begins today, January 1st, 2007.
What's different Nothing! Same crew, same way of doing things and hopefully the same supporting cast that has kept us afloat all this time.
History: "Our" Place began on April 12th, 2005 on the General Discussion (Classic Trains) Forum.
Concept: An adult bar & grill for all who are interested in and familiar with "Classic Trains."
The conversations are as they would be in a neighborhood bar, where people know one another and share stories, photos and other information relevant to the idea of the Forum - Classic Trains.
All of this with some humor thrown in and the rest is simple.
Objective: Have fun!
Ground rules: Leave ALL emotional baggage and "attitudes" on the front porch.
Be inclusive with your comments through the acknowledgment of the other guy's efforts. Hit ‘n run Posts are not welcome.
Greet the bartender upon entering and order a drink or food. Pretty easy, eh
Final "stats" for the "old" Thread at mid-night!
Replies: 9,013
Views: 163,151
Pages: 451
For those who may require it, the link to the "old" Thread is:
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/451/991587/ShowPost.aspx#991587
Tom (siberianmo)
Proprietor, "Our" Place
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