A Classic REAL Trains 'n Traction FOTO site!

[BudKarr]

Good Afternoon Captain Tom,

What have we here? Running two "Themes" one at the bar and another over here. That tends to get a bit confusing for someone trying to keep up with it all! Good job by you and of course the oracle of the forums, passengerfan Al. He surely is never at a loss for words, eh?<grin>

Just thought I would stop by before returning to my day of leisure up here in Alberta's high country. Sure is good to be back and my hope is that I will begin contributing to your threads before too long ......

BK

[LoveDomes]

Hello Tom

Just on my way over to the bar and thought I'd make a quick stop to see what's happenin' over here. Well, BK's back![tup] Good show!

Al has dropped another "theme" on us, huh? So, here's my contribution:

Name trains of the Northern Pacific (NP)

QUOTE: Alaskan
Mainstreeter
North Coast Limited
St. Paul-Winnipeg

Not very many - but they should "do" for the purposes of this thread .....

Until the next time!

Lars

[passengerfan]

Good Afdternoon Tom and Lars and anybody else reading. Continuing todays NP theme.

NORTHERN
PACIFIC Streamlined Baggage Cars
by Al

The name train of the Northern Pacific Railway was the NORTH COAST LIMITED and it would be September of 1948 before this train would become fully streamlined with six sets of equipment between Chicago and Seattle – Portland. Each consist of the NORTH COAST LIMITED operated with a pair of Head End cars a Water Baggage and a 30’ Railway Post Office 22 Crew Dormitory Car.
The Water – Baggage Cars were unique to the Northern Pacific as they carried 3,000 gallons of water in tanks at the forward end to supply additional water for the steam generators located in the diesel units. This was especially useful in the bad water district of the western Dakotas and eastern Montana where steam locomotives operated with very large capacity water tanks and even then good water was brought by tank car to the water towers located in this area of the railroad. These six cars NP 400 – 405 were delivered in 1946 – 1947 by Pullman Standard. Since additional water other than that carried by the CB&Q E units in charge of the NORTH COAST LIMITED between there and Chicago the tanks were generally empty for this part of the trip. The 30’ Railway Post Office 22 Crew Dormitory Cars 425 – 430 were delivered over the same time period and operated directly behind the Water Baggage Cars in the NORTH COAST LIMITED consists.

3,000 GALLON WATER BAGGAGE CARS Pullman Standard October 1946 – July 1947 (Built for and assigned to NORTH COAST LIMITED)

400 – 405

30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE 22 CREW DORMITORY CARS Pullman Standard October 1946 – July 1947 (Built for and assigned to NORTH COAST LIMITED)

425 – 430

In April – May 1956 Pullman Standard delivered ten lightweight streamlined Baggage Cars to the NP numbers 200 – 209. An additional ten arrived from Pullman Standard numbered 210 – 219 in August – September 1957. In June – July 1958 Pullman Standard delivered ten more numbers 220 – 229.

BAGGAGE CARS Pullman Standard April – May 1956 (Built for and assigned to General Service

200 – 209

BAGGAGE CARS Pullman Standard August – September 1956 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

210 – 219

BAGGAGE CARS Pullman Standard June – July 1958 (Built for and assigned to General service)

220 – 229

During the Seattle Worlds Fair in 1962 the NP suffered two accidents with NORTH COAST LIMITED trains in each incident damage was severe to Water Baggage cars and the NP was forced to stop for additional water along the way with these two consists. The NP placed tank cars of water at certain station stops to refill the small water tanks the diesels were equipped with until the two NORTH COAST LIMITED Water Baggage cars were returned to service. Beginning in October, 1962 the NP rebuilt two standard streamlined Baggage Cars 208 and 209 into Water Baggage Cars by adding three thousand gallon water tanks at one end and equipping the cars with the transfer lines to the diesel units ahead. After conversion to Water Baggage Cars the cars were numbered 406 and 407 respectively.
In December 1963 Pullman Standard delivered ten additional Baggage Cars to the Northern Pacific numbers 230 – 239.
One final lot of ten streamlined Baggage Cars came from St. Louis Car in November – December 1965 numbers 250 – 259. All of these cars like the previous Baggage Cars were assigned to General service.

BAGGAGE CARS Pullman Standard December 1963 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

230 – 239

BAGGAGE CARS St. Louis Car Company November – December 1965 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

250 – 259

In October and November 1965 the NP shops converted two additional Baggage Cars 210 and 218 into Water Baggage Cars 408 and 409.
A year later in September 1966 Baggage Car 211 was rebuilt to Water Baggage car 410 and in March 1967 one final baggage car 222 was rebuilt to a water Baggage Car and numbered 222. By this time the NP NORTH COAST LIMITED and MAINSTREETER were both equipped with Water Baggage Cars between St. Paul and Seattle and in the case of the NORTH COAST LIMITED the cars actually operated Seattle - Chicago.

TTFN AL

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom.

DENVER
&
RIO GRANDE
WESTERN
(D&RGW) Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
By Al

The D&RGW introduced their first streamlined trains November 17, 1941 the PROSPECTOR between Denver and Salt Lake City nightly in each direction. These two car streamliners were diesel powered with under floor-mounted units near each truck. These Hercules diesels of 190 hp each soon proved inadequate to power these less than successful streamliners from the Budd Company. Both were withdrawn from service July 5, 1942 and quietly returned to Budd in Philadelphia where they were just as quietly scrapped.
The first unit in each PROSPECTOR featured the Engineers cab a small baggage compartment and 44-revenue coach seats. The unit assigned to the M-1 train was named JOHN EVANS, and that assigned to the M-2 train was named BRIGHAM YOUNG. The motorized trailing car in each train featured 8-sections two-chambrettes (Budd name for roomettes) a buffet eight-seat dinette and four-seat lounge Observation. The second unit assigned to the M-I train set was named DAVID MOFFAT and that assigned to the M-2 train set was named HEBER C. KIMBALL.

POWERED 8-SECTION 2 CHAMBRETTE BUFFET 8-SEAT DINETTE 4-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company October 1941 (Built for and assigned to PROSPECTOR)

M-1 train DAVID MOFFAT

M-2 train HEBER C. KIMBALL

The Rio Grande owned cars for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR are covered in the CB&Q chapter, suffice to say here that the Rio Grande owned three feature cars a Vista Dome crew dormitory buffet lounge coffee shop car 1140 SILVER SHOP, a 48-seat dining car 1115 SILVER BANQUET and a Vista-Dome 3-double bedroom 1-drawing room bar lounge observation 1145 SILVER SKY.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 19-SEAT COFFEE SHOP BUFFET 7-SEAT LOUNGE 17-CREW DORMITORY CARS Budd Company October-November 1948 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

D&RGW

1140 SILVER SHOP

WP

831 SILVER CHALET

832 SILVER HOSTEL

CB&Q

250 SILVER CLUB

251 SILVER LOUNGE

252 SILVER ROUNDUP

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company November 1948 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

D&RGW

1115 SILVER BANQUET

WP

841 SILVER PLATE

842 SILVER PLATTER

CB&Q

193 SILVER CAFÉ

194 SILVER DINER

195 SILVER RESTAURANT

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 3-DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BAR 12-SEAT BUFFET LOUNGE 18-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company December 1948-January 1949 Plan: 9511 Lot: 9659 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

D&RGW

1145 SILVER SKY

WP

881 SILVER CRESCENT

882 SILVER PLANET

CB&Q

375 SILVER HORIZON

376 SILVER PENTHOUSE

377 SILVER SOLARIUM

To complete their postwar streamlining the Rio Grande purchased three Vista-Dome 20-seat coach news counter and 16-seat lounge observations from the C&O. These three cars were built originally for the C&O CHESSIE the train that never entered service. The C&O operated these three cars from Budd delivered in August 1948 operated on the C&O northern lines in the PERE MARQUETTES between Chicago and Grand Rapids. After purchase by the Rio Grande in September 1949 the cars were fitted with an adaptor and diaphragm so the cars could be operated mid-train. The cars looked striking in the Rio Grande gold, silver and black livery. The three cars traded their C&O numbers 1875-1877 for Rio Grande numbers 1248-1250. The Rio Grande assigned the 1248-1250 to the ROYAL GORGE operating between Denver and Salt Lake City via Pueblo and its namesake Royal Gorge.
Over a period of nine months (March-November) 1950 the Rio Grande received 25- lightweight streamlined cars that were originally part of the huge C&O order that that road could no longer use. Instead these 25-cars were delivered direct from Pullman Standard to the Rio Grande as they were completed complete with Grande paint and lettering. The five cars we are concerned with in this book are dining-lounge cars 1280 MT. TIMPANOGOS and 1281 JAMES PEAK assigned to the overnight PROSPECTORS. These cars featured a 22-seat dining area at one end with kitchen-pantry-bar located mid car and lounge seating for 16.
The other cars we are concerned with in this book are the three buffet-lounge cars 1290 CASTLE GATE, 1291 ROYAL GORGE and 1292 EAGLE CANON. Each of these cars featured an 8-seat lunch counter bar-buffet 38-seat lounge. These cars were assigned to the ROYAL GORGE trains between Denver and Salt Lake City.
After Rio Grande passenger service had ended except for the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR the cars were put up for sale.
In March 1967 the PRR purchased 1291 ROYAL GORGE and 1292 EAGLE CANON, after repainting and lettering the cars were numbered 1148 and 1149 respectively and assigned to the BROADWAY LIMITED trains.
In October 1967 the D&H purchased 1280 MT. TIMPANOGOS, 1281 JAMES PEAK, and 1290 CASTLE GATE for further service. Cars were assigned D&H numbers 41-43 respectively and operated in the LAURENTIAN between Albany and Montreal with one car acting as a reserve for the other two.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 20-REVENUE SEAT COACH NEWSSTAND 16-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS FITTED WITH MID-TRAIN ADAPTOR Budd Company August 1948 (Built for C&O CHESSIE sold to RIO GRANDE for ROYAL GORGE September 1949)

1248 originally C&O 1875

1249 originally C&O 1876

1250 originally C&O 1877

22-SEAT DINING KITCHEN – BAR 16-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard March-November 1950 (Built for C&O diverted to D&RGW before completion for assignment to the PROSPECTORS)

1280 MT. TIMPANOGOS

1281 JAMES PEAK

8-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER BUFFET-BAR 38-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard March-November 1950 (Built for C&O diverted to D&RGW before completion for assignment to the ROYAL GORGE)

1290 CASTLE GATE

1291 ROYAL GORGE

1292 EAGLE CANON

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Hmmmmmmm, nothing from Al yet - okay - we'll wait on the "Theme for the Day!"
Check these photo's out while we're waiting ..........

California Railroading! (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)


California Coaster (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)


California Metrolink (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)


Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Whoa! Looks like Al set the "theme" just about the same time as my last Post - so it's to be the Rio Grande eh[?][tup]

How are these for starters[?]


DRGW #1145 Silver Sky (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)


DRGW #1145 Silver Sky California Zephyr (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)


Enjoy![tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here's something previously Posted on this Thread that is in line with the "Theme for the Day!" . . .

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Denver & Rio Grande Western (D&RGW) [img]

Headquarters: Denver, CO

Mileage:

1950: 2,413
1995: 2,238 including trackage rights routes

Rolling stock as of 1963: Freight cars – 12,610 Passenger cars – 96

Principal lines in 1950:

Denver-Bond, CO-Salt Lake City, UT
Denver-Pueblo-Dotsero, CO
Pueblo-Trinidad, CO
Walsenburg-Alamosa, CO
Alamosa-Durango, CO
Salida-Gunnison, CO
Mears Junction-Alamosa
Alamosa-Creede, CO
Bond-Craig, CO
Grand Junction-Ouray, CO
Thistle-Marysvale, UT
Salt Lake City-Ogden, UT

Passenger trains of note:

California Zephyr (Chicago-Oakland, joint w/Burlington & Western Pacific)
Colorado Eagle (St. Louis-Pueblo-Denver, joint w/MoPac)
Exposition Flyer (Chicago-Oakland, joint w/Burlington & WP, replaced by California Zephyr in 1949)
Mountaineer (Denver-Montrose, CO, via Moffat Tunnel)
Panoramic (Denver-Ogden)
Prospector (Denver-Salt Lake City)
Rio Grande Zephyr (Denver-Ogden [later cut back to Salt Lake City], replaced California Zephyr 1970-83)
Royal Gorge (Denver-Pueblo-Ogden)
San Juan (Alamosa-Durango, CO)
The Silverton (Durango-Silverton, CO)
The Yampa Valley (Denver-Craig)

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[BudKarr]

Greetings Captain Tom,

Just wanted to stop by for a minute. Looks as "active" as ever. Thanks to you and Mr. passengerfan, things are maintaining a positive flow - also Lars too.

One day I will figure out how to find those wonderful pictures you and Lars have come up with and perhaps provide some of my own. Just a learning experience I have not encountered yet because the "urge" has not hit me.<grin>

While the D&RGW does not "do" very much for me, in spite of the fine trains they ran, railroading in Colorodo does. I would love to experience that train in Durango. Have you guys done that? I understand it is a narrow gauge run and travels through some mighty fine terrirtory. One day, perhaps.

BK

[LoveDomes]

Hello Tom,

Just stopped by to see if there is a "Theme," and I see Al hasn't let us down.

Good to see BK stop by as well - so now it will be four of us "running" this thread - that suits me![tup]

Ok, so it's the Rio Grande - here's my meager contribution . . .

Name trains of the Denver and Rio Grande Western (Rio Grande) (D&RGW)

QUOTE: 1. California Zephyr
2. Colorado Eagle
3. Exposition Flyer
4. Mountaineer
5. Prospector
6. Royal Gorge
7. Yampa Valley Mail

My caveat as always: not meant to be all inclusive, but should suffice for bringing back some memories![tup]

Until the next time!

Lars

[passengerfan]

DENVER
&
RIO GRANDE
WESTERN Streamlined Head End Cars
by Al

The first streamlined head end cars owned by the D&RGW were the pair of lead units in the two car trains that entered PROSPECTOR service November 17, 1941 overnight between Denver and Salt Lake City in each direction. The lead unit of each two-car train contained a pair of under floor Hercules diesels turning a generator supplying power to the truck mounted traction motors, the same was true for the trailing car having a pair of under floor truck mounted diesels. These lead cars featured the Control Cab Baggage Compartment and 44 revenue coach seats. The two trains were the M-1 and M-2 the power car in the lead unit in the M-1 train set was named JOHN EVANS and the name of the lead unit in the M-2 train was BRIGHAM YOUNG. These badly underpowered train sets were withdrawn from service July 5, 1942 and quietly returned to Budd where they were scrapped.

POWERED CONTROL CAB BAGGAGE 44 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd October 1941 (Built for and assigned to PROSPECTORS)

M-1
JOHN EVANS

M-2
BRIGHAM YOUNG

The next streamlined head end car purchased by the Rio Grande was for service in the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. There were six identical Baggage Cars built for the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR train sets. Three of the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR Baggage Cars were owned by the CB&Q, two by the Western Pacific and one by the D&RGW 1100 SILVER ANTELOPE. The CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR Baggage car 1100 SILVER ANTELOPE was delivered to the D&RGW in February 1948 by the Budd Company, as part of an order for eight. Two were WP owned, three were CB&Q owned and one the 1100 SILVER ANTELOPE was owned by the Rio Grande for CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. The additional two were CB&Q owned for assignment to the NEBRASKA ZEPHYRS.

BAGGAGE CAR Budd Company 1948 (Built for and assigned to CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

1100 SILVER ANTELOPE

The rest of the D&RGW streamlined head end cars were delivered by Pullman Standard between March – November 1950. These cars were intended for the C&O but when they were unable to use all they had ordered many were made available to other Railroads. The D&RGW purchased a total of twenty-five of these C&O cars with all delivered direct from Pullman Standard to the D&RGW painted in Grande Gold with black stripes. Eight of these cars were head end cars of three different types. There were three Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Cars numbered 1200 – 1202 assigned to the ROYAL GORGE between Denver and Salt Lake City by way of Pueblo. Three of the cars were full Baggage Cars assigned to the PROSPECTORS between Denver and Salt Lake City overnight by way of the Moffat Tunnel. The other two were Baggage 7 Crew Dormitory 24 revenue seat Coach Combinations 1230 and 1231 both assigned to the PROSPECTORS.

BAGGAGE 30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE CARS Pullman Standard March – November 1950 (Built for and assigned to ROYAL GORGE)

1200 – 1202

BAGGAGE CARS Pullman Standard March – November 1950 (Built for and assigned to PROSPECTOR)

1210 – 1212

BAGGAGE 7 CREW DORMITORY 24 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Pullman Standard March – November 1950 (Built for and assigned to PROSPECTOR)

1230, 1231

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

G'day!

My final "Theme for the Day!" submissions for today . . .

DRGW #1145 Silver Sky at Moffatt Tunnel (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)


DRGW #1145 Silver Sky (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)


Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

Tom
Last I heard the former Silver Sky was sold to Via Rail Canada with the intended name Jasper Park. Alas it was last seen derilect in Montreal exposed to the weather

TTFN AL

[passengerfan]

Hows this for Thursdays theme.

ATLANTIC
COAST
LINE
(ACL) Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
byAl

The Atlantic Coast Line introduced their first lightweight streamlined trains December 1, 1939 with the introduction of daily CHAMPIONS between New York and Miami. The new CHAMPIONS were seven-car coach streamliners built by the Budd Company. Three train sets were constructed in order to provide daily service. Two of the trains were owned by the ACL and the third was owned by the FEC who operated the new streamliners between Jacksonville and Miami. Each of the new trains delivered by Budd in November 1939 was diesel powered south of Washington. North of Washington they operated under Pennsylvania catenary usually behind one of that roads famous GG-1 electrics.
The new seven car streamliners each operated with two feature cars per consist serving the 254-coach seats. The fourth car in each CHAMPION train set was a 48-seat dining car and the seventh car in each consist was a 32-seat tavern bar-buffet 21 seat lounge observation. These beautifully rounded Budd observations would be the only ones purchased by the ACL, as all future Budd built observations would be blunt end cars in order that they could be operated mid-train if necessary. The two ACL dining cars were named PHILADELPHIA and NEW YORK and the FEC dining car in CHAMPION service was named FORT PIERCE. The ACL Tavern-Lounge observations were numbered 250 and 251, while FEC named theirs BAY BISCAYNE. The 250 was destroyed in a wartime accident of the TAMIAMI CHAMPION in July 1943. In 1952 ACL rebuilt the 251 to a blunt end observation matching all postwar ACL observations.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company November 1939 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION trains)

ACL

NEW YORK

PHILADELPHIA

FEC

FORT PIERCE

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR-BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company November 1939 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION trains)

ACL

250, 251

FEC

BAY BISCAYNE

So popular were the new CHAMPIONS with the traveling public that additional cars were ordered for late 1940 delivery that would expand the consists to fourteen cars each doubling the size of the initial train sets. Now each expanded train set operated with two 48-seat dining cars and two 32-seat tavern lounge Bar-Buffet 21-seat lounge observations. Now the fifth car in each consist was a 48-seat dining car, the eighth car was a new blunt end tavern lounge bar buffet Lounge Observation, the eleventh car was a 48-seat dining car and the fourteenth and last car was one of the 1939 round end tavern lounge bar-buffet lounge observations.
The new cars were all delivered by Budd in December 1940-January 1941. The new cars were all ACL owned except for three Pennsylvania owned 60-seat coaches their first cars for the CHAMPION pool.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company December 1940 - January 1941 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

ACL

BALTIMORE

BOSTON

NEWARK

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR-BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company December 1940 – January 1941 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

ACL

252-254

The ACL increased the CHAMPION pool following WW-II with the purchase of 21 cars from Budd, the PRR contributed 12 coaches and the RF&P contributed eight coaches their first for the CHAMPION pool. At the same time the FEC purchased nineteen additional cars from Budd for the CHAMPION pool and other trains. Among the cars purchased were one 24-seat dining 18-seat lounge car two 48-seat dining cars and three 32-seat tavern lounge bar-buffet 21-seat lounge observations. At last the CHAMPIONS could operate trains to both Florida coasts with enough cars for winter operations that did not require splitting the trains at Jacksonville, now there were through CHAMPIONS to both coasts. In the slower summer season the CHAMPIONS would still operate combined between New York and Jacksonville. The lone Dining Lounge car two 48-seat dining cars were ACL owned, as were the final three 32-seat tavern lounge bar-buffet 21-seat lounge observations. All of the Budd cars were delivered between May 1946 and May 1947. Budd delivered the new 48-seat dining cars were delivered in April – May 1947 and Budd delivered the new Tavern Lounge Observations in May 1947. The lone ACL owned Dining Lounge car ST. PETERSBURG was quickly remodeled to a 48-seat dining car after entering service.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company April – May 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION pool)

ACL

TAMPA

WASHINGTON

FEC

FORT DALLAS

FORT MATANZAS

FORT SAN MARCO

24-SEAT DINING 18-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Budd Company May 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION pool)

ACL

ST. PETERSBURG

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR-BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) May 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION pool)

ACL

255-257

FEC

LAKE OKEECHOBEE

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR – BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Round) May – 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION pool)

FEC

HOBIE SOUND

ST. LUCIE SOUND

The FEC owned round observations were assigned to the EAST COAST CHAMPION from New York to Miami bringing up the markers with blunt end ACL and FEC observations mid-train. The WEST COAST CHAMPION trains operated with blunt end tavern lounge observations mid-train and bringing up the markers.
For the sleeping cars passenger new lightweight streamlined cars were delivered in the last half of 1949. Among the cars delivered were nine 6-Double Bedroom Buffet 24-seat lounge cars from AC&F. These nine cars owned by the ACL, FEC and RF&P were assigned to the FLORIDA SPECIALS (6) in the winter months with the remaining three assigned to the EAST COAST CHAMPION. Summers the trains were assigned to the EAST COAST and WEST COAST CHAMPIONS.

6-DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 24-SEAT LOUNGE CARS American Car & Foundry November – December 1949 Plan: 9006 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS and FLORIDA SPECIAL)

ACL
(Lot: 3090)

MYRTLE BEACH

PASS-A-GRILLE BEACH

PONTE VEDRA BEACH

SEA ISLAND BEACH

VIRGINIA BEACH

WRIGHTSVILLE BEACH

FEC
(Lot: 3095)

MAGNOLIA

OLEANDER

RF&P
(Lot: 3093)

COLONIAL BEACH

Between February and May 1950 Pullman Standard delivered thirteen 36-eat dining cars for ACL service to the ACL, FEC, and RF&P. All three roads dining cars were named and did not carry numbers. These cars were assigned to the winter only all-Pullman FLORIDA SPECIAL and such other fine ACL trains as the MIAMIAN, VACATIONER, and others.

36-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard February – May 1950 (Built for and assigned to various ACL trains in a general pool)

ACL

ATLANTA

BIRMINGHAM

CORDELE

FITZGERALD

GREENVILLE

LA GRANGE

MOULTRIE

PLANT CITY

TALLEDEGA

TARBORO

FEC

FORT DRUM

FORT RIBAULT

RF&P

HENRICO

Besides these lightweight cars the ACL rebuilt and streamlined a number of heavyweight 36-seat and 48-seat dining cars at their Emerson shops in Rocky Mount, N.C. Those modernized and streamlined 36-seat dining cars were named BRADENTON (48), GAINESVILLE (48), HARTSVILLE (36), KINSTON (36), NEW BERN (36), ORANGEBURG (36), TROY (48) and VALDOSTA (36). All of these cars were retired from ACL service by 1963. The work performed on these cars was outstanding and were difficult to tell from factory lightweight streamlined cars.
In December 1950 the ACL received five twin unit Kitchen-Dining room sets from the C&O who after having the cars built for them could not find a use for them and sold them to the ACL. Two of the sets were 16-crew dormitory Kitchen cars C&O numbers 1954 SWAN KITCHEN and 1955 POSTLEWHWAIT’S KITCHEN were renumbered ACL 125 and 126 respectively. The 64-seat dining room cars sold to the ACL at the same time for these kitchen units were C&O 1977 SWAN TAVERN and 1978 POSTLETHWAIT’S TAVERN; these were named PORT TAMPA and WINTER PARK by ACL.
The other three units that featured kitchens were built for the C&O as 14-seat Lunch Counter Kitchen Units numbers 1941,1940, and 1942 for the stillborn CHESSIE. These cars were built by Budd and delivered in August 1948. The C&O remodeled the cars to 18-crew dormitory –Kitchen units renumbering them 127-129 respectively.
The Dining room cars these were attached to were Budd built as well and were also built for the stillborn CHESSIE. These cars only seated 54-seats and were the former C&O 1970-1972. The ACL named these cars WINTER HAVEN, ST. PETERSBURG and FORT MYERS respectively. Since the ACL already had a 48-seat dining car carrying the name ST. PETERSBURG they renamed the 48-seat Dining car ORLANDO in December 1950.
Pullman Standard delivered the body shell only for a lightweight streamlined 36-seat dining car to the ACL in 1957. For the next two years this blank car body sat outside the Emerson shops in Rocky Mount. Finally in December 1959 the car was pulled into the shops and emerged as the ACL’s newest dining car NAPLES at that time.
All six BEACH series 6-Double Bedroom Buffet 25-seat lounge cars survived to the SCL merger.
One of the 48-seat Budd built dining cars PHILADELPHIA was wrecked and destroyed in an accident June 29,1957.
The ACL also lost one of their 36-seat dining cars CORDELE in 1957. The car shell purchased in 1957 that became the NAPLES in December 1959 was the replacement car for CORDELE. All other 48-seat and 36 seat dining cars became Seaboard Coast line property in the 1967 merger.

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

That is sad news, ineed, regarding the demise of the beautiful observaton dome car! Didn't know that - and appreciate the info, as always.[tup]

Another day, another "Theme" at the "Dew Drop in Thread!" [swg]

My contribution . . . . which was previously Posted on this Thread:

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Atlantic Coast Line (ACL)

Headquarters: Jacksonville, FL

Route mileage in 1950: 5,528

Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):

Freight: 170
Passenger: 62
Dual mode (freight/passenger): 234
Switchers: 119

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 28,847; Passenger cars – 405

Principal routes in 1950:

Richmond, VA-Tampa, FL, via Jacksonville and Orlando.
Wilson-Wilmington, NC
Wilmington-Pee Dee (Florence) SC
Winston-Salem, NC-Florence
Florence-Atlanta
Brunswick, GA-Montgomery, AL
Birmingham, AL-Waycross, GA
Albany-Dunnellon, FL
Jacksonville-St. Petersburg, FLA via Gainesville, Leesburg and Trilby
Dupont, GA-Naples, FL

Passenger trains of note:

East Coast Champion (New York-Miami)
West Coast Champion (New York-Tampa & St. Petersburg & Sarasota)
Tamiami Champion – Predecessor of East and West Coast Champions
Florida Special (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg)
Miamian (Washington-Miami)
Vacationer (New York-Miami)
Havana Special (New York-Key West, FL)
Palmetto (New York-Savannah & Augusta & Wilmington)
Everglades (New York-Jacksonville)
Gulf Coast Special (New York-Tampa & Ft. Myers & St. Petersburg; formerly Havana Special)

Of note: North of Richmond, RF&P and PRR handled passenger trains.
South of Jacksonville, FEC handled trains bound for Miami and Key West.
SAL handled trains headed for Miami south of Auburndale, FL in 1963.

Other carrier’s trains destined to Florida, such as the City of Miami – South Wind – Flamingo – Dixie Limited – Dixie Flyer – Seminole and Southland were combined with named ACL trains.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Something for our "Theme for the Day!" . . .

Atlantic Coast Line (ACL) map (1914)


Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Continuing the ACL theme for the day.

ATLANTIC
COAST
LINE Streamlined Head End Cars
by Al

The ACL’s first streamlined head end cars were a pair delivered by Budd in November 1939 to inaugurate the daily CHAMPIONS between New York and Miami. Actually there were three consists and three of these Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory 14 seat Coach Combinations delivered by Budd for the CHAMPIONS. The third consist necessary for daily operation was owned by the Florida East Coast Railway. The two ACL owned cars were numbered 100 and 101 and were delivered with a Purple letter board while the FEC owned NEW SMYRNA had a reddish orange letter board. Each of the seven car streamlined CHAMPIONS was powered by a single 2,000 hp E3A unit from EMD between Washington and Miami. North of Washington the trains were handled on the PRR by a GG-1 Electric.
The new CHAMPIONS entered daily service beginning December 1, 1939.

BAGGAGE 13-CREW DORMITORY 14-REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd Company November 1939 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

ACL

100, 101

FEC

NEW SMYRNA

The ACL doubled the size of the CHAMPIONS beginning in December 1941 with the delivery of three nearly identical train sets, except the new trains did not operate with the Coach with Stewardess Room as only one stewardess was carried for the entire combined train. The stewardess was assigned to the Miami section of the CHAMPION. The major difference in the cars for these CHAMPIONS and the earlier CHAMPIONS was seating capacity in the coaches and the Tavern Lounge Observations were squared off and had diaphragms installed at both ends for mid train operation. At that time the name of the combined fourteen car trains was changed to TAMIAMI CHAMPION. This allowed the TAMIAMI CHAMPION to be split at Jacksonville with one section operating through to Miami while the other section operated through to Tampa on the West Coast of Florida. The ACL owned the additional three head end cars 102 – 104 again Baggage 13-Crew Dormitory 14-revenue seat Coaches. All cars for the new TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS were completed by Budd between November 1940 and January 1941 and delivered to the ACL as completed.

BAGGAGE 13-CREW DORMITORY 14-REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd Company December 1940 (Built for and assigned to TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS)

102 – 104

Following WW II the ACL received three additional consists from Budd to replace the earliest CHAMPION train sets. These cars were nearly identical to the earlier prewar cars with only subtle interior changes. Three of the new cars were again Baggage 13-Crew Dormitory 14-Revenue seat Coach Combinations numbered 105 – 107. The name of the trains had once again reverted to the CHAMPIONS after a wartime wreck of the TAMIAMI CHAMPION had left a number of passengers dead. The railroad never again used the TAMIAMI CHAMPION name after the accident. The trains were thereafter referred to as the EAST COAST CHAMPION and WEST COAST CHAMPION.

BAGGAGE 13-CREW DORMITORY 14-REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd Company April 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

105 – 107

In July 1947 the ACL shops rebuilt Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory 14 Seat Coach Combination 100 into a Baggage 28-Crew Dormitory car for the combined EAST COAST and WEST COAST CHAMPIONS.
In addition the ACL rebuilt five surplus U.S. Army Hospital Cars into Baggage 28-Crew Dormitory Cars and numbered these cars 2002-2006. They were painted Purple with a silver letter board and Black roof and underbody. These cars were assigned to the FLORIDA SPECIAL and MIAMIAN. The conversion work from U.S. Army Hospital Cars to Baggage Crew Dormitory cars 2002-2006 was completed by ACL shops between July and September 1947 when they were initially assigned to the MIAMIAN trains.
In September 1947 the ACL shops rebuilt Baggage 13-Crew Dormitory 14-Revenue seat Coach 101 to a Baggage 28-Crew Dormitory Car without change of number. The 101 remained assigned to the combined EAST COAST and WEST COAST CHAMPION.
Another ex U.S. Army Hospital car was rebuilt to a Baggage Car by ACL shops in July 1949 and assigned number 579. This car was assigned to General Service.
American Car & Foundry delivered a pair of Baggage Cars to the ACL in February 1950 numbered 150 and 151.

BAGGAGE CARS American Car & Foundry February 1950 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

150, 151

In August 1953 the ACL rebuilt one additional ex U.S. Army Hospital car into a Baggage 28-Crew Dormitory car numbered 2007. This car was assigned to the MIAMIAN – FLORIDA SPECIAL general service pool.
Sometime during 1959 a blank car shell that had been delivered to the ACL earlier in 1957 by Pullman Standard was completed as a baggage car and numbered 152. This car was then assigned to service in the CHAMPIONS.
In March 1962 the ACL was busy once again rebuilding the remaining Budd Baggage 13-Crew Dormitory 14-Revenue seat Coach Combinations 102-104 into straight Baggage 33-Crew Dormitory cars without change of numbers. Baggage 13-Crew Dormitory Coach Combinations 105-107 were rebuilt to Baggage 33-Crew Dormitory Cars at the same time.
In 1966 ACL shops rebuilt Baggage 27 Crew Dormitory cars 2004 and 2007 into straight Baggage cars and renumbered them 1660 and 1663 respectively.
In 1967 ACL shops rebuilt Baggage 27-Crew Dormitory Cars 2005 and 2006 into straight baggage car and renumbered them 1661 and 1662.

TTFN AL

[LoveDomes]

Hello Tom -

Just stopped by on the way home from the bar and noticed that Al hasn't let us down. So ACL it shall be . . .

Name trains of Atlantic Coast Line (ACL)

QUOTE: Champion (East Coast)
Champion (West Coast)
City of Miami
Dixie Flagler
Dixie Flyer
Dixie Limited
Everglades
Flamingo
Georgian
Havana Special (East Coast)
Havana Special (West Coast)
Miamian
Palmetto
Seminole
South Wind
Southland
Sunchaser

That's all I have time for ... gotta run! My post over at the bar says it all ....

Until the next time!

Lars

[BudKarr]

Hello Captain Tom,

Looks like I am chasing Lars from thread to thread - just cannot catch him!<smile>

Don't have anything of interest to provide other than to say that it appears as long as Al keeps coming by, you'll not run out of "Theme" material!<grin>

All I know about the Atlantic Coast Line is what you all have provided at "Our" Place in past postings. All good reading.

I am heading over to the bar now.

BK in beautiful Alberta high country!

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Just a quickie to acknowledge the Posts from Al - Lars & BK - thanx guys, for helping to keep this "outpost" alive![tup][swg]

Catch y'all in the 'morrow . . . .

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

SEABOARD
AIR
LINE
(SAL) Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The SAL introduced the first diesel powered streamliner between the Northeast and Florida on February 2, 1939. This seven-car coach streamliner the SILVER METEOR operated a six day cycle beginning with a New York – Miami round trip followed by a New York – St. Petersburg round trip. Three of the SILVER METEORS seven – cars were feature cars or part feature cars. The third car in consist was 6300 a 30-seat coach train hostess room bar 30-seat tavern lounge car. The fourth car in each consist was the trains 48-seat dining car a standard Budd type layout numbered 6100. The seventh car in the SILVER METEOR consist was the 48-seat coach 24- seat lounge observation 6400. The revenue coach seating capacity of the SILVER METEOR was for 280-passengers. The Budd built streamliner was delivered to the SAL at the end of January 1939 and EMC delivered the E4A at the same time. The PRR operated the SILVER METEOR north of Washington and the RF&P operated the SILVER METEOR between Washington and Richmond. South of Richmond the SILVER METEOR operated on home rails.

30-REVENUE SEAT COACH TRAIN HOSTESS ROOM BAR 30-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE CAR Budd Company January 1939 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

6300

48-SEAT DINING CAR Budd Company January 1939 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

6100

48-REVENUE SEAT COACH 30-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company January 1939 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

6400

So successful was the SILVER METEOR that the SAL ordered two additional identical train sets for December 1939 delivery with an extra three cars to provide the service to St. Petersburg. This permitted the SILVER METEOR to become a daily New York – Miami streamliner and provide every third day service to St. Petersburg from Florida. The new daily SILVER METEOR service began December 23, 1939 between New York and Miami. The three extra cars built for the New York – St. Petersburg section of the SILVER METEOR operated every third day in one of the regular SILVER METEOR trains between New York and Wildwood, where they operated as a separate train to and from St. Petersburg. The three extra cars were two 60-seat coaches and a 48-seat dining car.
A single 24-seat Dining 18-seat Lounge Car numbered 6103 was delivered in November 1939 for operation between Wildwood and St. Petersburg round trip daily carrying the through cars to and from New York.
The two new SILVER METEOR 30-seat coach Hostess room bar 30-seat tavern lounge cars were numbered 6301 and 6302. The two new 48-seat dining cars were numbered 6101 and 6102. The two new 48-seat coach 24-seat lounge observations were numbered 6401 and 6402. Budd delivered all new SILVER METEOR cars in December 1939.

24-SEAT DINING 18-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Budd Company November 1939 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR between Wildwood and St. Petersburg)

6103

30-REVENUE SEAT COACH HOSTESS ROOM BAR 30-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE CARS Budd Company December 1939 (Built for and assigned to daily SILVER METEORS)

6301, 6302

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company December 1939 (Built for and assigned to daily SILVER METEORS)

6101, 6102

48-SEAT COACH 24-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company December 1939 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEORS)

6401, 6402

One year later in December 1940 daily SILVER METEOR service began operating to both Miami and St. Petersburg when fifteen new cars were delivered. Now each daily SILVER METEOR between New York and Wildwood was thirteen cars in length with six cars located forward the New York – St. Petersburg section and the rear six cars plus one of the Baggage Coach dormitory cars carried forward also part of the Miami section. The coach – lounge observations 6500 – 6502 delivered in December 1940 were blunt end cars equipped with diaphragms and operated in the middle of the SILVER METEOR between New York and Wildwood permitting access to the Miami section of the train. Between Wildwood and St. Petersburg they brought up the markers of this section of the SILVER METEOR. The SAL permitted fifteen minutes for separating the two sections or combining the two sections of the SILVER METEOR in order to maintain the fast schedule. Two additional 48-seat dining cars 6104, and 6105 were also part of the December 1940 deliveries.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company December 1940 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

6104, 6105

30-SEAT COACH STEWARDESS ROOM BUFFET 25-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company December 1940 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR St. Petersburg section)

6500 – 6502

Following the war the SAL was anxious to streamline other trains and add streamlined sleeping cars to the SILVER METEOR that was then operating with heavyweight sleeping cars forward of the coach section of the train. The SAL planned to add a new SILVER COMET between New York and Atlanta – Birmingham daily as soon as possible following the war. The new SILVER COMET trains were introduced May 18, 1947. About the only streamlined cars in the new trains consist when first inaugurated were the coaches. In June 1947 the SILVER COMET received streamlined 48-seat dining cars and Baggage 12-crew Dormitory 22-seat coaches. The SILVER COMET received new tavern lounge observations in July 1947. The 1947 influx of feature cars included nine new 48-seat dining cars 6106 – 6114 and six new tavern lounge observations 6600 – 6605. These new tavern – lounge cars were almost identical to those built for rival ACL with 34-seat tavern lounge bar 25-seat lounge observation. These six cars were round end observations and later would be fitted with an adaptor and diaphragm for mid-train use. Three of the new tavern lounge observations were assigned to the SILVER METEOR and three others were assigned to the SILVER COMET.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company May – June 1947 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR and SILVER COMET)

6106 – 6114

34-SEAT LOUNGE BAR-BUFFET 25-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company July 1947 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR and SILVER COMET)

6600 – 6605

The SAL would purchase only six more feature cars new after this time and they were all built for the SILVER METEOR initially although the names applied to the first three would suggest they were built for the SILVER COMET the train they were never assigned to. When the SAL replaced the MOUNTAIN series in the SILVER METEOR with the BEACH series beginning January 4, 1956 the MOUNTAIN series were then assigned to the other New York – Miami SAL streamliner the SILVER STAR. These cars were 6-Double Bedroom Buffet 23-seat lounge cars 15 RED MOUNTAIN, 16 STONE MOUNTAIN and 17 KENNESAW MOUNTAIN. American Car & Foundry delivered these three cars in August 1949.

6-DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 23-SEAT LOUNGE CARS American Car & Foundry August 1949 Plan: 9003 Lot: 3045 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR later SILVER STAR)

15- RED MOUNTAIN

16 – STONE MOUNTAIN

17 – KENNESAW MOUNTAIN

Pullman Standard delivered the final three new feature cars in December 1956 for assignment to the SILVER METEOR. These three cars were unlike any other feature cars ever built. They were 5-Double Bedroom Buffet 21-seat Sun Lounges. They featured five large windows on each side of the lounge area and five windows in the roof down each side. These large lounge area windows were found on these cars only and they were an immediate hit with the sleeping car passengers of the SILVER METEOR.

5-DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 21-SEAT SUN LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard January 1956 Plan: 4202 Lot: 6968 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

18 – MIAMI BEACH

19 – PALM BEACH

20 – HOLLYWOOD BEACH

After the FEC had been idled by a lengthy strike and passenger service south of Jacksonville for the ACL and other roads was transferred to the SAL, the FEC never again entered the passenger business. The idled FEC cars were eventually sold to other railroads with the largest group of these cars being sold to the SAL a total of thirty-six. Nine of the former FEC cars were feature cars they were four 48-seat dining cars, two 36-seat dining cars, two tavern – lounge cars and one dining – lounge car. The following is a list of these cars and their new SAL numbers. For further details of the interiors see the FEC chapter.

DINING CARS

6115 originally FEC FORT LAUDERDALE

6116 originally FEC FORT DALLAS

6117 originally FEC FORT MATANZAS

6118 originally FEC FORT SAN MARCO

6119 originally FEC FORT RIBAULT

6120 originally FEC FORT DRUM

TAVERN LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS

6606 originally FEC LAKE WORTH

6607 originally FEC BAY BISCAYNE

DINING – LOUNGE CAR

6620 originally FEC SOUTH BAY

The SAL was merged into the Seaboard Coast Line

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Ah, the Seaboard Air Line (SAL)! Logical follow on to the ACL - good choice, Al[tup]

My contribution has previously been Posted on this Thread - but here it is one more time:

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Seaboard Air Line (SAL)

Headquarters: Norfolk, VA

Route mileage in 1950: 4,146

Locomotives in 1963: Diesels – 531

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 27,560; Passenger cars – 446

Principal routes in 1950:

Richmond, VA-Homestead, FL (Miami) via Columbia, SC & Jacksonville & Auburndale, FL
Coleman-St. Petersburg, Fl
Hamlet, NC-Savannah, GA
Norlina, NC-Norfolk
Hamlet-Birmingham, AL
Savannah, GA – Montgomery, AL
Baldwin-Chattahoochee, FL
Baldwin-Gross, FL (bypass of Jacksonville)
Waldo-Sulphur Springs, FL
Plant City-Fort Myers, FL
Durant-Venice, FL
Hull-Port Boca Grande, FL
Valrico-West Lake Wales, FL

Passenger trains of note:

Cotton Blossom (Washington, DC-Atlanta)
Gulf Wind (Jacksonville-New Orleans)
New York-Florida Limited (New York-Miami)
Orange Blossom Special (New York-Miami)
Palmland (New York-Tampa & Boca Grande, FL)
Silver Meteor (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg & Venice & Ft. Myers)
Silver Comet (New York- & Portsmouth, VA-Birmingham)
Silver Star (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg & Venice & Boca Grande, FL)
Sunland (Washington & Portsmouth-Miami & Venice; formerly Southern States Special, Sun Queen & Camellia)
Suwannee River Special (Cincinnati-Florida destinations)

Of note: SAL passenger trains were handled by RF&P & PRR north of Richmond.
L&N handled the Gulf Wind west of Chattahoochee.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Hey Al

Don't have very much on the SAL, but here's something that you may find of interest!

Seaboard Air Line map (1896)


Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

SEABOARD
AIR
LINE Streamlined Head End Cars
by Al

The SAL purchased ten cars from Pullman's old Osgood/Bradley plant in Worcester, Massachusetts that were delivered in September – October 1936. These cars were four Baggage Divided Coach Combinations 285 – 288. These cars were equipped with a 24 seat Colored section and 28 seat White section closest to the vestibule, both compartments had separate restrooms. A partition with closed door separated the two sections in these modern cars. The cars were of the so-called American Flyer design and were more streamlined than most of these type cars as they were delivered with full side skirting. The other six cars were straight 76 revenue seat coaches 830 – 835. Historians don’t agree on the original intentions for these cars assignments but in any event they were assigned to the WEST COAST ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIALS operating between New York and St. Petersburg during winter months.

BAGGAGE 52 REVENUE SEAT DIVIDED COACHES Pullman Osgood/ Bradley September 1936 (Built for and assigned to WEST COAST ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL)

285 – 288

The SAL purchased a pair of Diesel powered shovelnose Cab units with a 30’ RPO and Baggage Compartment from St. Louis Car in 1936. The pair 2027 and 2028 were powered by a 600hp EMC diesel. The 2028 is most remembered for its daily operation hauling the Coach and Sleeping car from the METEOR between Tampa and Venice daily in each direction.
The SAL became the first operator of a streamlined train between New York and Florida on February 2, 1939 with the inaugural of the diesel powered seven-car SILVER METEOR. This Budd built coach streamliners first car 6000 was a Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory 22 Revenue seat Coach. The entire seven-car streamliner was delivered by Budd in January 1939 and entered service February 2, 1939 operating the following six-day schedule. First the SILVER METEOR operated a round trip between New York and Miami that consumed three days followed by a New York – St. Petersburg round trip that consumed another three days. After one day for thorough servicing the schedule began all over again.

BAGGAGE 13 CREW DORMITORY 22 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATION Budd Company January 1939 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

6000

Two additional train sets were ordered almost immediately from Budd in order to inaugurate daily New York – Miami service with an every third day section to St. Petersburg from New York. The two head end cars for the additional train sets were identical to the earlier 6000 and were numbered 6001 and 6002. The daily SILVER METEOR service began December 23, 1939 using Budd built cars delivered earlier the same month.

BAGGAGE 13 CREW DORMITORY 22 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd Company December 1939 (Built for and assigned to daily SILVER METEOR)

6001, 6002

In November – December 1940 Budd delivered fifteen new cars for the SILVER METEOR. The addition of these cars permitted the SAL to offer daily service to both coasts of Florida. With the combined trains traveling as a single train between New York and Wildwood, Florida where the two sections split before continuing on to Miami on the East Coast and St. Petersburg on the Gulf Coast. The three new head end cars delivered at that time were 6003 – 6005 and these cars were Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory 18-revenue seat Coach Combinations. The new head end cars operated between New York and Miami while the older 6000 – 6002 became New York – St. Petersburg cars.

BAGGAGE 13 CREW DORMITORY 18 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATIONS Budd Company November 1940 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR service)

6003 – 6005

Following WW II the SAL received three new head end cars from the Budd Company in June 1947. These three cars were the last new head end cars built new for the SAL. These three cars unlike the prewar cars were only Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory cars 6050 – 6052. These large capacity crew dormitory cars were assigned to the SILVER METEOR. The older prewar cars were than assigned to the new SILVER COMET and later SILVER STAR.

BAGGAGE 22 CREW DORMITORY CARS Budd Company June 1947 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

6050 – 6052

The SAL shopped the older prewar 6000 – 6003 Baggage Crew Dormitory Coaches between April and August 1957. As each car was shopped they emerged as Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory Cars with new numbers 6054, 6055, 6053 and 6056 respectively. The cars continued in assignment to the SILVER STAR, SILVER METEOR pool of cars while the remaining Baggage 13 Crew Dormitory 18 seat Coach Combinations 6004 and 6005 were assigned to the SILVER COMET between New York City and Birmingham.
In November 1965 the SAL purchased a large number of lightweight streamlined cars from the FEC after a prolonged strike had ended passenger service on that carrier. Four head end cars were among the cars purchased and renumbered by the SAL. The four cars were as follows:

BAGGAGE 13 CREW DORMITORY 22 REVENUE SEAT COACH COMBINATION

6006 ex FEC INDIAN RIVER originally FEC STUART

BAGGAGE 22 CREW DORMITORY CARS

6057 ex FEC HALIFAX RIVER originally FEC NEW SMYRNA

6058 originally FEC ST. JOHNS RIVER

BAGGAGE CAR
6070 originally FEC 501

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

HI Al

Seems like we've hit a "wall" of sorts - our "dependables" haven't shown up today either here or at the bar!<groan>

Appreciate the good stuff, though and we'll see you in the 'morrow . . . don't forget that tomorrow is ENCORE! Saturday over at the bar![tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #56

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Southern (SOU)

Headquarters: Washington, DC

Mileage in 1950: 6,300

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 644

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 40,038
Passenger cars: 587

Principal routes in 1950:

Washington, DC-Charlotte, NC-Atlanta, GA-Birmingham, AL-New Orleans, LA
Cincinnati, OH-Chattanooga, TN-Birmingham
Danville, KY-St. Louis, MO
Chattanooga-Memphis, TN
Chattanooga-Morristown-Knoxville-Bristol, TN
Chattanooga-Atlanta-Valdosta, FL-Jacksonville, FL
Valdosta-Palatka, FL
Salisbury-Asheville, NC-Morristown, TN
Asheville-Spartanburg-Charleston, SC
Charlotte-Jacksonville
Danville-West Point, VA
Greensboro, NC-Norfolk, VA
Rome, GA-Mobile, AL

Passenger trains of note:

Aiken-Augusta Special (Washington-Salisbury-Augusta)
Asheville Special (Washington-Greensboro-Asheville)
Birmingham Special (Washington-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxvillle-Chattanooga-Birmingham
Carolina Special (Cincinnati-Knoxville-Asheville-Greensboro & Charleston)
Crescent (New York-Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans))
Florida Sunbeam (Cincinnati-Atlanta-Florida points)
Kansas City-Florida Special (Kansas City-Birmingham-Atlanta-Brunswick & Florida points)
Peach Queen (Washington-Atlanta)
Pelican (New York-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Piedmont Limited (Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans)
Ponce de Leon (Cincinnati-Atlanta-Jacksonville)
Queen & Crescent (Cincinnati-Chattanooga-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Royal Palm (Cincinnati-Chattanooga-Jacksonville)
Skyland Special (Asheville-Jacksonville)
Southerner (Washington-Atlanta-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Sunnyland (Memphis-Birmingham-Atlanta)
Tennessean (Washington-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Memphis)
Washington-Atlanta-New Orleans Express (Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans)

Of note:
PRR handled SR trains east of Washington.
N&W handled SR trains via Bristol between Lynchburg and Bristol.
A&WP handled SR trains to and from New Orleans via Montgomery.
WRofA and L&N handled SR trains to and from New Orleans via Montgomery west of Atlanta.
Frisco handled SR trains between Memphis and Birmingham, west of Birmingham (The Kansas City-Florida Special).
Frisco handled SR trains handled the Sunnyland Memphis-Birmingham route.
SAL handled SR train The Florida Sunbeam south of Jacksonville.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

I see we are staying in the Southeast great the Southern was a truly great RR.

SOUTHERN
(SOU) Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The Southern Railway placed three diesel-powered seven-car coach streamliners in service March 31, 1941 between New York and New Orleans named the SOUTHERNER. The new trains operated over the PRR between New York and Washington. From Washington the new EMC diesels headed the train beyond to New Orleans via Atlanta and Birmingham. Seating capacity of the Pullman Standard built streamliners was 242. Each seven-car streamliner carried two feature cars the fourth a 48-seat dining car and the seventh a Tavern-Lounge Bar Hostess Room Lounge Observation.
The 48- seat dining cars were numbered 3300-3301 and all were named VIRGINIA.
The 32-seat tavern lounge bar-buffet- train hostess room 19-seat lounge observations were numbered 1100-1102 and all carried the name LOUISIANA.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard March 1941 (Built for and assigned to SOUTHERNER)

3300 VIRGINIA

3301 VIRGINIA

3302 VIRGINIA

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR BUFFET HOSTESS ROOM 19-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Built for and assigned to SOUTHERNER)

1100 LOUISIANA

1101 LOUISIANA

1103 LOUISIANA

Less than two months later on May 18, 1941 the SOUTHERN inaugurated a new streamliner with heavyweight sleeping cars between Washington and Memphis named the TENNESSEAN. Each of these trains carried two feature cars a 48-seat dining car and tavern lounge bar buffet train hostess room lounge observation. The difference between the observations built for the SOUTHERNER and those built for the TENNESSEAN latter were blunt end observations with diaphragms. This was to permit the heavyweight sleeping cars to operate to the rear of the streamlined section of the TENNESSEAN.
The 48-seat dining cars numbered two for the TENNESSEAN; they only operated between Washington and Chattanooga. The two dining cars were numbered and named 3303 CHATTANOOGA and 3304 ALEXANDRIA.
The three blunt end observations operated between Washington and Memphis were numbered and named 1150 WASHINGTON, 1151 KNOXVILLE and 1152 MEMPHIS.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard May 1941 (Built for and assigned to TENNESSEAN)

3303 CHATTANOOGA

3304 ALEXANDRIA

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR BUFFET HOSTESS ROOM 19-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard May 1941 (Built for and assigned to TENNESSEAN)

1150 WASHINGTON

1151 KNOXVILLE

1152 MEMPHIS

Following WW II the Southern like most roads were anxious to complete streamlining of their premier trains. The two trains the SOUTHERN most wanted to streamline following the war was the All-Pullman CRESCENT LIMITED and a new train to Florida the NEW ROYAL PALM. The CRESCENT operated between New York and New Orleans via a different route south of Atlanta then the SOUTHERNER operated over. South of Atlanta the new CRESCENT would carry coaches as well as the Pullmans. The CRESCENT would be only one of two postwar streamliners to operate new cars with Master Room accommodations; only the PRR BROADWAY LIMITED could claim the same. Cars built for the CRESCENT were owned by the Southern, L&N, A&WP, and WofA and were constructed by Pullman Standard, Budd and American Car & Foundry. The Southern CRESCENT evolved into a streamliner instead of happening all at once as with many streamliners. Each CRESCENT was assigned the following feature cars; a 48-seat dining car, a 2-drawing room 1-master room buffet 21-seat lounge car and a 5-double bedroom buffet 8-seat cocktail lounge high windowed raised 16-seat lounge observation. Budd built the 48-seat dining cars and the other two feature cars were Pullman Standard built. The dining cars were also built for the NEW ROYAL PALM, as were sleeper lounge observations.
In November 1950 Southern owned 2300 ROYAL ARCH was renamed LUTHER CALVIN NORRIS. The WofA owned ROYAL PALACE was renamed CHARLES A. WICKERSHAM in September 1952.
One of the NEW ROYAL PALM sleeper lounge observations NYC ROYAL CREST was destroyed that first summer while operating on the rear of one of the UP CITY OF LOS ANGELES consists near Wamsutter, Wyoming along with two UP sleeping cars when the stopped train was rear ended by a following train. Three other observations the two L&N and W&A car were sold to private owners. The FEC AZALEA was rebuilt to a business car and the three Southern owned cars were rebuilt to 11-double bedroom sleeping cars losing their observation ends in the rebuilding. In September 1958 Pullman Standard on LUTHER CALVIN NORRIS and ROYAL COURT completed the conversion. In October 1958 ROYAL PALM became an 11-double bedroom sleeper.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company September – October 1949 (Built for and assigned to CRESCENT - SOUTHERNER - NEW ROYAL PALM)

CRESCENT

A&WP

120

L&N

2790

SOU

3305, 3306

SOUTHERNER

SOU

3307 – 3309

NEW ROYAL PALM

SOU

3310 – 3312

CNOT&P

3869

2-DRAWING ROOM 1-MASTER ROOM BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard December 1949 Plan: 4160 Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to CRESCENT)

2350 CRESCENT CITY

2351 CRESCENT HARBOR

2352 CRESCENT MOON

2353 CRESCENT SHORES

5-DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 8-SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE 16-SEAT RAISED LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard February – March 1950 Plan: 4162 Lot: 6814 (Built for and assigned to CRESCENT and NEW ROYAL PALM)

CRESCENT

SOU

2300 ROYAL ARCH

L&N

3300 ROYAL CANAL

3301 ROYAL STREET

WofA
ROYAL PALACE

NEW ROYAL PALM

SOU

2301 ROYAL COURT

CNOT&P

3499 ROYAL PALM

NYC

ROYAL CREST
FEC

AZALEA

The NEW ROYAL PALM carried an additional feature car as this train carried coaches between Cincinnati and Florida points. The southbound NEW ROYAL PALM was assembled each morning with sleeping cars brought from Chicago, Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit by the NYC that is the reason the NYC contributed cars to the pool of cars that comprised the NEW ROYAL PALM. The sleeper lounge observations were the only through feature cars to operate north of Cincinnati. They operated through to Detroit. The additional feature car carried by the NEW ROYAL PALM was a dining –lounge car. These cars had a rather unusual interior arrangement with booths for four and lounge seating intermixed. On the one side of these cars were two booths for four three lounge seats two additional booths for four and six lounge seats. The other side of the car starting at the kitchen –Pantry was a Stewards station Booth for four three lounge seats two more booths for four and six lounge seats. Actually it wasn’t as bad as it sounds as the two three seat lounge areas were used as waiting areas for passengers waiting to dine. There were three cars built new for the NEW ROYAL PALM SOU 3399, CNOT&P 3899 and FEC SOUTH BAY, the fourth car supplied to the pool was an NYC Grill – Dining car serving as a Dining – lounge. The NYC rotated cars of this type in and out of the NEW ROYAL PALM pool with no particular car serving for any period of time.

28-SEAT DINING 18-SEAT LOUNGE CARS American Car & Foundry August – September 1950 (Built for and assigned to NEW ROYAL PALM)

SOU

3399

CNOT&P

3899

FEC

SOUTH BAY

The Southern received six-Coach –Bar Lounge cars from Budd in November – December 1949 numbered 950 – 955. These cars carried 34-coach seats a bar and 16-seat lounge. The Southern assigned the cars to the postwar SOUTHERNER and TENNESSEAN three for each trains pool.

34-SEAT COACH BAR 16-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company November – December 1949 (Built for and assigned to SOUTHERNER and TENNESSEAN)

950 – 955

This completed the streamlined feature cars for the Southern. Those surviving dining cars were transferred to Amtrak when Southern finally joined Amtrak. The two Southern Dining Lounge cars were retired in 1971 and the FEC SOUTH BAY became SAL 6620 in 1965. This car was retired by the SCL as their 5837 in 1971.

TTFN AL

[Anonymous]

First time here. I grew up in southen california riding the red cars to the beach and down town, but my first real train ride was a trip in 1953 on the super chief from LA to Chicago. At ten years old I will never forget that trip. I still ride a train when time will permit at least 2 or 3 times a year.

[siberianmo]

Hello sunseeker_03

[#welcome] to the Forums! I see this is your first Post - so those of us who frequent this Thread are pleased you chose us to begin your experience.[tup]

In short order, you'll pick up on the way things are done of the Forums and one of them is to consider adding a bit of info to your Profile. It enables others to communicate with you via Email and also get an idea of "who" we're talking to (age, location, etc.)

Anyway, trains are what we talk about here - the CLASSICS (that's the idea of this partiuclar Forum). As you can see, each Forum is designed after a Kalmbach magazine infosfar as "theme" is concerned.

Tell us more about those Red Cars - who ran 'em and when did they come to and end, etc.

I was 15 in 1953 and had traveled across the country from NYC to Santa Ana by train for a Boy Scout Jamboree. What an adventure! Also, backing up a bit, I was in Long Beach back in 1947 or 48 (can't remember which) and my father put me aboard one of the Chiefs for a trip back to NYC. A "blast" indeed.

Catch ya later and enjoy our Thread. You may want to visit "Our" Place - a cyber bar 'n grill on this same Forum for adult conversations about the Classic Trains with some fun thrown in![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Hey Al - check this out!

Southern Railway map (1921)


Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here's one I think you've seen before, but it "fits" with the "Theme for the Day!" . . . .

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #50

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Southern Railway (SOU) from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . THE SOUTH . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Suits to a “T” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

WHY has an average of one new factory a day located along the lines of the Southern Railway System during the past three years?

Because industries are discovering that the South served by the Southern is a “gold mine of opportunity”! With a wealth of natural resources and advantages, expanding consumer markets, skilled and willing workers . . . and a bright future . . . the South suits all industries – to a “T”.

Look Ahead – Look South!” Earnest E. Norris, President.

. . . . . . . . . . SOUTHERN RAILWAY SYSTEM . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The Southern Serves the South . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)][oX)]